God is dead.

[JSynon]

Morality is the essence of all philosophy and all conscious actions for that matter. Kant and Sartre were correct in asserting that man acts to define man. Whenever anybody makes a claim to an objective truth or universal moral value they are actually saying: “This is how I see things. This is how I want things to be!” In this way, all philosophical discourse is indeed merely autobiography and creation of values. Some people would call this a will to power, but call it what you will. Hence, my thesis: For anybody to attempt to invoke absolute moral values or objective truth claims on me is nothing other than a declaration of war against me. It is no longer an argument over what the truth is. The truth is created by the stronger party. It is by understanding this that you begin to understand what is truly meant by "God is dead." Philosophy itself has died: metaphysics, ethics, and all. Truth and the will to truth are dead. The big lie of the priestly caste (dare I say the weak souls and slavish), the attribution of absolute value to - Truth, God, Form, Noumena, Being, Reality, the Good, the Perfect, the Infinite, the Unconditional and Absolute, the Unknown, the First Cause, ens realissimum - to control strong and healthy souls, will soon end.

"Every belief, every considering something true is necessarily illusion because there is simply no true world."

 

[rambot]

Whenever anybody makes a claim to an objective truth or universal moral value they are actually saying: “This is how I see things. This is how I want things to be!” In this way, all philosophical discourse is indeed merely autobiography and creation of values. Some people would call this a will to power, but call it what you will. Hence, my thesis: For anybody to attempt to invoke absolute moral values or objective truth claims on me is nothing other than a declaration of war against me. It is no longer an argument over what the truth is. The truth is created by the stronger party. It is by understanding this that you begin to understand what is truly meant by "God is dead." Philosophy itself has died: metaphysics, ethics, and all. Truth and the will to truth is dead.

Looks like another brain is lost to post modernism.

"Every belief, every considering something true is necessarily illusion because there is simply no true world."

This is the assumption that post modernism relies upon. Take that away and the whole argument falls apart.

That we cannot know or understand "the true world" does not mean it does not exist: That seems quite narcissistic.

 

[JSynon]

Looks like another brain is lost to post modernism.

Hey, thanks bro.

That we cannot know or understand "the true world" does not mean it does not exist: That seems quite narcissistic.

The point is that even if the true world does exist it doesn't matter to us. And what's wrong with self-importance? People deserve to love themselves.

 

[The Nihilist]

Looks like another brain is lost to post modernism.
This is the assumption that post modernism relies upon. Take that away and the whole argument falls apart.
That we cannot know or understand "the true world" does not mean it does not exist: That seems quite narcissistic.

Hilarious!

 

[Daniels]

Every belief, every considering something true is necessarily illusion because there is simply no true world."

God is real, Jesus is Real and the Holy Spirit is Real

 

[JSynon]

God is real, Jesus is Real and the Holy Spirit is Real

Wow.

 

[The Nihilist]

God is real, Jesus is Real and the Holy Spirit is Real

Yeah, Vishnu and Captain Hook too. Back it up.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Whenever anybody makes a claim to an objective truth or universal moral value they are actually saying: “This is how I see things. This is how I want things to be!”

Unless, of course, they are correct. In which case, it is more than just how they see things -- they see things accurately.

Hence, my thesis: For anybody to attempt to invoke absolute moral values or objective truth claims on me is nothing other than a declaration of war against me.

It wouldn't be I, but Reality, that you would be at war with.

But, don't worry, I value free societies, and I would only war on you if you were to war (to initiate or threaten physical force) on me. If I say to you that you are doing something immoral, it would be just words to you, not police with guns.

It is by understanding this that you begin to understand what is truly meant by "God is dead."

Philosophy itself has died: metaphysics, ethics, and all.

The news of Philosophy's death is greatly exaggerated!

Yes, Philosophy has died for many people, but embers still exist and will one day burst into brilliant new flame. This flame will not be the same as any of the old ones -- there won't be any God, Noumena, or Being, but there will be rationality, meaning in life, and an idea of human flourishing. It will be the new Philosophy, and not suffer from the sickness of excessive skepticism or nihilism that arrived with the death of God.

"Every belief, every considering something true is necessarily illusion because there is simply no true world."

The world begs to differ.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[JSynon]

Unless, of course, they are correct. In which case, it is more than just how they see things -- they see things accurately.

You apply moral value to the word accurately without justification.

It wouldn't be I, but Reality, that you would be at war with.

Actually, it would be you. Reality doesn't matter, remember? I would ask why you care about this Reality, but I don't really care.

there won't be any God, Noumena, or Being, but there will be rationality, meaning in life, and an idea of human flourishing. It will be the new Philosophy, and not suffer from the sickness of excessive skepticism or nihilism that arrived with the death of God.

Sounds like Aristotle. Might be nice. Only thing is that once the death of God has been dealt with there will be no skepticism, nihilism, or need for other-worldly meaning in life anyways.

The world begs to differ.

The world does not care.

 

[Eudaimonist]

You apply moral value to the word accurately without justification.

Perhaps, but if it can be justified, then it wouldn't matter if you disagreed. It would be the fact of the matter.

I think the biggest problem with your position is that it seems to assume beforehand that justification is impossible, and so people who hold different views only assert desires. Many people do just this -- they only offer desires. However, they can also offer justifications, not mere desires. And one should not say a priori that they can't succeed with their justifications.

The best attitude to take is to say: I don't think that I am wrong, but I could be, so let's examine your justifications -- NOT to insist beforehand that all they have are desires.

Consider the theist who tells the atheist: If you disbelieve in God, you are merely asserting your desires. You can't possibly justify that view. It's all just your opinion.

Would this theist have the right attitude?

Actually, it would be you. Reality doesn't matter, remember? I would ask why you care about this Reality, but I don't really care.

Reality doesn't matter to whom? To itself? Of course not. But it does to human beings. It even has a way of intruding on people who prefer to live wholely in fantasy worlds of their own creation.

It wouldn't matter to you whether you cared about reality or not. For something to make a difference to you, it doesn't have to make a difference to your feelings. It simply has to make a difference to your existence as a human being.

Sounds like Aristotle. Might be nice. Only thing is that once the death of God has been dealt with there will be no skepticism, nihilism, or need for other-worldly meaning in life anyways.

Oh? Why wouldn't there be skepticism or nihilism? What would exist?

I'm not defending "other-worldly meaning in life", btw. A meaning doesn't have to be otherworldly to apply to all human beings.

The world does not care.

That's fine, because it doesn't need to.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[selfinflikted]

God isn't dead, he's hiding in the t.v.

 

[chaz345]

"Every belief, every considering something true is necessarily illusion because there is simply no true world."

Is the belief expressed in the above quote self inclusive?

 

[JacobHall86]

Morality is the essence of all philosophy and all conscious actions for that matter. Kant and Sartre were correct in asserting that man acts to define man. Whenever anybody makes a claim to an objective truth or universal moral value they are actually saying: “This is how I see things. This is how I want things to be!” In this way, all philosophical discourse is indeed merely autobiography and creation of values. Some people would call this a will to power, but call it what you will. Hence, my thesis: For anybody to attempt to invoke absolute moral values or objective truth claims on me is nothing other than a declaration of war against me. It is no longer an argument over what the truth is. The truth is created by the stronger party. It is by understanding this that you begin to understand what is truly meant by "God is dead." Philosophy itself has died: metaphysics, ethics, and all. Truth and the will to truth are dead. The big lie of the priestly caste (dare I say the weak souls and slavish), the attribution of absolute value to - Truth, God, Form, Noumena, Being, Reality, the Good, the Perfect, the Infinite, the Unconditional and Absolute, the Unknown, the First Cause, ens realissimum - to control strong and healthy souls, will soon end.

"Every belief, every considering something true is necessarily illusion because there is simply no true world."

You should cite your sources.

 

[JSynon]

Damn, I guess I should go into poetry...

Eudaimonist: Are you still talking?

chaz345: What do you think?

JacobHall86: What are sources to me? God told me that you should cite my one source for that last quote.

 

[JacobHall86]

Wow how original, instead of citing the source that you copied and pasted that from or atleast saying you wrote it (which I doubt) you instead decide to poke fun at a God you say doesnt exist. And the athiests wondered why Christians didnt want this site opened to anyone adn everyone.

 

[JSynon]

Wow how original, instead of citing the source that you copied and pasted that from or atleast saying you wrote it (which I doubt) you instead decide to poke fun at a God you say doesnt exist. And the athiests wondered why Christians didnt want this site opened to anyone adn everyone.

You make me giggle. I'm not poking fun. If you can't see that then you obviously don't understand my point. And I did write that all except the part that is in "quotations." Thanks for calling me a liar though.

 

[Yggdrasil]

God is real, Jesus is Real and the Holy Spirit is Real

YOU HAVE OPENED MY EYES.

Wow how original, instead of citing the source that you copied and pasted that from or atleast saying you wrote it (which I doubt) you instead decide to poke fun at a God you say doesnt exist. And the athiests wondered why Christians didnt want this site opened to anyone adn everyone.

Oh come now, what fun would that be?

 

[Savage78]

God is not dead, for god to be dead he would have to be alive. There simply is no evidence.

 

[Yggdrasil]

God is not dead, for god to be dead he would have to be alive. There simply is no evidence.

The phrase "god is dead" doesn't mean god is physically dead:

"God is dead" is not meant literally, as in "God is now physically dead"; rather, it is Nietzsche's way of saying that the idea of God is no longer capable of acting as a source of any moral code or teleology. Nietzsche recognizes the crisis which the death of God represents for existing moral considerations, because "When one gives up the Christian faith, one pulls the right to Christian morality out from under one's feet. This morality is by no means self-evident.... By breaking one main concept out of Christianity, the faith in God, one breaks the whole: nothing necessary remains in one's hands."[1] This is why in "The Madman", the madman addresses not believers, but atheists — the problem is to retain any system of values in the absence of a divine order.
The death of God is a way of saying that humans are no longer able to believe in any such cosmic order since they themselves no longer recognize it. The death of God will lead, Nietzsche says, not only to the rejection of a belief of cosmic or physical order but also to a rejection of absolute values themselves — to the rejection of belief in an objective and universal moral law, binding upon all individuals. In this manner, the loss of an absolute basis for morality leads to nihilism. This nihilism is what Nietzsche worked to find a solution for by re-evaluating the foundations of human values. This meant, to Nietzsche, looking for foundations that went deeper than the Christian values beyond which he felt most Christians refuse to look.
Nietzsche believed that the majority of people did not recognize (or refused to acknowledge) this death out of the deepest-seated fear or angst. Therefore, when the death did begin to become widely acknowledged, people would despair and nihilism would become rampant, as well as the relativistic belief that human will is a law unto itself—anything goes and all is permitted. This is partly why Nietzsche saw Christianity as nihilistic. To Nietzsche, nihilism is the consequence of any idealistic philosophical system, because all idealisms suffer from the same weakness as Christian morality—that there is no "foundation" to build on. He therefore describes himself as "a 'subterranean man' at work, one who tunnels and mines and undermines."



Handy dandy wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_is_dead

 

[Savage78]

The phrase "god is dead" doesn't mean god is physically dead:

"God is dead" is not meant literally, as in "God is now physically dead"; rather, it is Nietzsche's way of saying that the idea of God is no longer capable of acting as a source of any moral code or teleology. Nietzsche recognizes the crisis which the death of God represents for existing moral considerations, because "When one gives up the Christian faith, one pulls the right to Christian morality out from under one's feet. This morality is by no means self-evident.... By breaking one main concept out of Christianity, the faith in God, one breaks the whole: nothing necessary remains in one's hands."[1] This is why in "The Madman", the madman addresses not believers, but atheists — the problem is to retain any system of values in the absence of a divine order.
The death of God is a way of saying that humans are no longer able to believe in any such cosmic order since they themselves no longer recognize it. The death of God will lead, Nietzsche says, not only to the rejection of a belief of cosmic or physical order but also to a rejection of absolute values themselves — to the rejection of belief in an objective and universal moral law, binding upon all individuals. In this manner, the loss of an absolute basis for morality leads to nihilism. This nihilism is what Nietzsche worked to find a solution for by re-evaluating the foundations of human values. This meant, to Nietzsche, looking for foundations that went deeper than the Christian values beyond which he felt most Christians refuse to look.
Nietzsche believed that the majority of people did not recognize (or refused to acknowledge) this death out of the deepest-seated fear or angst. Therefore, when the death did begin to become widely acknowledged, people would despair and nihilism would become rampant, as well as the relativistic belief that human will is a law unto itself—anything goes and all is permitted. This is partly why Nietzsche saw Christianity as nihilistic. To Nietzsche, nihilism is the consequence of any idealistic philosophical system, because all idealisms suffer from the same weakness as Christian morality—that there is no "foundation" to build on. He therefore describes himself as "a 'subterranean man' at work, one who tunnels and mines and undermines."



Handy dandy wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_is_dead

Thanks for that.