Gay preaching on proper sexuality: Born Gay (2)

[AlAyeti]

Mm.
"If it's a bad organization, then it needs good people to stay in it and change it from the inside, and not abandon it to the bad guys."
-Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice, Karen Traviss, p. 66

To have gay rights activists moving into The Church to set up a humanist and decadent hedonism is not from the good people department. And Christians are to flee the Devil, not join his efforts ti=o sicken the flock.

I do believe that's a good idea, even from a Star Wars book... good timing, just read that page not even two hours ago.

Roddenberry was a humanist.

Perhaps you could start with who's in charge of this 'agenda' and what their 'agenda' is with links to this organization.

Who prints these gay indoctrination books to pass out to fieva dn six year old children? Satan or who else? My first guess would be satan, but I'm sure he's using worldly presses.

Correlation does not prove causation.

It sure points to evil and good. Since gay rights advocacy comes straight out of the world and its ways, we can only correlate who is behind its current rise to power. I am a Christian and I get to hold Satan accountable when incarnate evil is called a civil right.

Where does Jesus talk about homosexual attractions, and where does He say to repent of them? Please give evidence for your claims.

Nice trickery, we both know "homosexual" is a construst of the 19th century. Jesus did though, preach about what a marriage is. And it is not same gender in construct. Unless of course you are introducing the concept of the Bride of Christ being a gay guy. I'm not going there with you.

You sure are. I bring up a point, you attempt to make a counterpoint. That's usually called a debate, albeit not a formal one.

OK.

Jesus sure encouraged celibacy. Matthew 19:1-11.

And His preaching on marriage was man and woman. Per God, per Him.

Maybe because this is a discussion. In a discussion, people generally make arguments. Given that you are arguing that people should repent of homosexuality and I believe that the only sin in homosexuality is the romance and the gay sex, it is only logical that I should be arguing with your idea of repentance.

There is no such thing as a gay gene, so obviously gay anything is gay sexual behavior or support of it.

I don't view same sex attractions as wrong, as there is NO biblical support for such a notion.

Not doing as the pagans do is a biblical notion.

Thus, as far as attractions are concerned, there is nothing to repent of.

Jesus seemed to think that just thoughts was the same thing as actually doing the deed.

Being homosexual is not a lifestyle or worldview.

Gay Pride Parades, Rainbow Flags, Pink triangles and LGBT signs call people to this lifestyle and worldview. In fact, thi worldview is being pushed all over the world.

A worldview is an ideology that affects how you view the world as a whole, such as humanism, atheism, Buddhism, Jedi-ism, nihilism, and many others. 'Homosexualism' is not a worldview, and you will not find it in any dictionary describing a worldview (save for maybe conservopedia).

A lifestyle is how one lives their life- similar to a worldview, except it is used to describe a set of preferences that make up one's decisions for food, lodging, entertainment, or friendship.

You will find it marching down the street, at drag shows, and judging beauty contests. To name just a few places you'll see gay lifestyle and worldview on display. In fact, GLBT's have entire dictionaries with their worldview listed letter by letter. Ever "had" a twinkie?" Ever hunted for a bear?

Lifestyle and worldview.

Plus, it is not my business to turn other people from their sin (in the case of homosexuality, the gay sex and romance). It is my business to share the love of Christ and the Gospel, which does not center around any sin in particular but requests for people to turn from all sin to follow Jesus.

Gay sex isn't a sin and that is demanded to be the case with gay sexuality. According to the gay life, lifestyle and worldview. And we can add theology as well.

It is furthermore to make disciples of all nations- not converts who struggle with their faith.

Converts strugle with their faith because false teachers are allowed to ply their wares as a civil right without being challenged. We ARE to challenge the false teachers leading converts into confusion and into a struggle with their faith. That IS the accusation I lay on the hands and deeds of pro gay advocates IN The Church. They sound so lovely but are leading people astary.

Again, Satan is in power and principality.

I bring people up in the faith, I edify them and transform them into reproducing disciples who can then go out and make disciples of other people.

I challenge you do prove that while encouraging people to support gay rights advocacy. You must live in a basement if you don't think gay advocates are causing people to ENAGAGE IN gay sex.

All with the Holy Spirit's help. It is the Holy Spirit that changes people, not me. He may work through me, but it is not me who changes anyone.

The Holy Spirit does not use lies to bring the Gospel. Let's start with gay rights advocates that identify as Christians that prop up the idea that marriage can be same gender, when the ENTIRE witness of scripture opposes that and them.

I do advocate for gays in the same way that I advocate for you, my mother, my father, my sister, my best friend, my brothers and sisters in Christ, and anyone else God lays on my heart to pray for. By praying for people, caring for people, and loving people we do advocate for them. Not their sins, them.

Faith without works is dead. Soner or later love must confront behavior. Read Peter, John and Jude. Oh, and Jesus in the Gospel. He spoke out quite passionately abourt CHANGING BEHAVIOR when becoming a believer.

And the reason I sound 'hysterical' is because I am quite serious about this 'Christianity' and 'Jesus' thing.

There are lot's of things that sound Jesus like. The Dalai Lama sounds very Jesus like. Is he bringing people to a saving knowledge of Christ?

I take what He teaches quite seriously and I believe that if anyone is to claim His name they should likewise represent Him and take what He teaches very seriously as well. I have no patience for anything that undermines Christianity.

NOTHING CAN UNDERMINE CHRISTIANITY. Lies and deception undermine bringing the truth to people. And Jesus said Satan is the father of lies.

Jesus doesn't say it is a worse sin. He merely states the seriousness of sin in general in the same way that James talks about bringing people back to the faith very seriously.

No way pal. He makes it very clear that encouraging people to sin is worse than just sinning yourself. He doesn't threaten a millstone around your neck for sinning, but He most certainly makes this dire threat to people that "harm" others by leading them into sin.

I'm very serious about tis Christianity thing. Read Jude for a guide as to how.

And this doesn't address either of the verses I referenced, nor does it address the idea that God loves everyone regardless of what they've done which is backed by the verses I gave.

There were two men hanging next to Jesus while He and they were being executed. Only one was invited into paradise.

Maybe we should take our discussion to the apologetics section. There we can discuss parables of people that hear about the Gospel, embrace it for a while and then are lost to whatever fate awaits those that are lost.

I woud think, that Jesus would expect me and you to keep on trying to reach this lost person. You don't do that by encouraging them to make excuse for their sins, or redefine them as not being at all.

 

[Zebra1552]

To have gay rights activists moving into The Church to set up a humanist and decadent hedonism is not from the good people department. And Christians are to flee the Devil, not join his efforts ti=o sicken the flock.


Roddenberry was a humanist.

That has no relation to the quote I used nor the meaning of the quote as it pertains to what I was responding to. Perhaps one that's more blunt? "All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." You stated that you would not go to a church that kicked out a gay person just for attending their church. How does that help that church?

Who prints these gay indoctrination books to pass out to fieva dn six year old children? Satan or who else? My first guess would be satan, but I'm sure he's using worldly presses.

Then it's not some 'gay agenda', it's Satan doing exactly what we'd expect. What is the point of going on about Satan doing something he's supposed to?

It sure points to evil and good. Since gay rights advocacy comes straight out of the world and its ways, we can only correlate who is behind its current rise to power. I am a Christian and I get to hold Satan accountable when incarnate evil is called a civil right.

You don't hold Satan accountable to ANYTHING. You are human, he is a fallen angel. He's quite a bit more powerful than you are. How do you expect to hold him to any standard?

Any theology that supports gay behavior comes straight out of the Humanist Manifesto and Hollywood scripts.

You did not respond to my statement about your reply: correlation does not prove causation. You merely reasserted what you already stated.

Nice trickery, we both know "homosexual" is a construst of the 19th century. Jesus did though, preach about what a marriage is. And it is not same gender in construct.

I'm not resorting to trickery. I'm asking you a question that you still have not answered, after pages of discussion:

Where does Jesus talk about homosexual attractions, and where does He say to repent of them?

And let's say you want to claim Jesus never spoke on homosexuality and agree with me on that point. Where does Paul or anyone else in the entire Bible condemn homosexual attractions? Gay attractions? Same sex attractions? Whatever you want to call a sexual preference for the same gender? You made claims earlier that homosexuals need to repent without expanding on what that means or what that looks like. You implied that a homosexual can cease to become a homosexual.

Unless of course you are introducing the concept of the Bride of Christ being a gay guy. I'm not going there with you.

What possible relation does that have to this conversation?

And His preaching on marriage was man and woman. Per God, per Him.

That's off topic. You said celibacy isn't commanded. I'm telling you it's preferred. Do you disagree? If so, why?

There is no such thing as a gay gene, so obviously gay anything is gay sexual behavior or support of it.

That is a non-sequitor, a leap in logic. Even if homosexuality isn't entirely genetic, psychology has shown that genetics play a role, a factor, in who is and is not of the homosexual orientation- which has little to do with sexual behavior. It has far more to do with sexual preference. Do you know what the difference between behavior and preference is?

Not doing as the pagans do is a biblical notion.

Again, off topic. I stated the following:

I don't view same sex attractions as wrong, as there is NO biblical support for such a notion.

If you disagree, then provide biblical support.

Jesus seemed to think that just thoughts was the same thing as actually doing the deed.

Chapter and verse, please, and a good solid defense for lust simply being desire and anger simply being an emotion in the verses you do reference.

Gay Pride Parades, Rainbow Flags, Pink triangles and LGBT signs call people to this lifestyle and worldview. In fact, thi worldview is being pushed all over the world.

Okay, making the same claim immediately after I explain why your claim is wrong is not a rebuttal. A rebuttal is where you explain, logically, why I'm wrong. Repeating the very point that I just rebutted is not a rebuttal.

You will find it marching down the street, at drag shows, and judging beauty contests. To name just a few places you'll see gay lifestyle and worldview on display. In fact, GLBT's have entire dictionaries with their worldview listed letter by letter. Ever "had" a twinkie?" Ever hunted for a bear?

Lifestyle and worldview.

If you think such, then provide documentation, and address what I stated:

A worldview is an ideology that affects how you view the world as a whole, such as humanism, atheism, Buddhism, Jedi-ism, nihilism, and many others. 'Homosexualism' is not a worldview, and you will not find it in any dictionary describing a worldview (save for maybe conservopedia).

A lifestyle is how one lives their life- similar to a worldview, except it is used to describe a set of preferences that make up one's decisions for food, lodging, entertainment, or friendship.

Merely disagreeing and continuing the same claims is not a rebuttal.

Gay sex isn't a sin and that is demanded to be the case with gay sexuality. According to the gay life, lifestyle and worldview. And we can add theology as well.

That does not relate to what I said at all. I stated:

Plus, it is not my business to turn other people from their sin (in the case of homosexuality, the gay sex and romance). It is my business to share the love of Christ and the Gospel, which does not center around any sin in particular but requests for people to turn from all sin to follow Jesus.

__________________________________________

Converts strugle with their faith because false teachers are allowed to ply their wares as a civil right without being challenged. We ARE to challenge the false teachers leading converts into confusion and into a struggle with their faith. That IS the accusation I lay on the hands and deeds of pro gay advocates IN The Church. They sound so lovely but are leading people astary.

Again, Satan is in power and principality.

Again, that does not relate to what I was talking about. I said that my goal is to make disciples who stay in their faith. That has nothing to do with false teachers or those who lead people astray.

I challenge you do prove that while encouraging people to support gay rights advocacy.

You've got enough claims that you haven't backed, so back them first. If you want an answer from me, then I am first going to demand a few from you. Until you do that, I'm not going to prove that I bring people up in the faith.

You must live in a basement if you don't think gay advocates are causing people to ENAGAGE IN gay sex.

Then I guess I live in a basement, because advocating for civil and legal rights has nothing to do with encouraging sex. If you think it does, then please prove it. You are making affirmative claims, and the burden of proof rests with you.

The Holy Spirit does not use lies to bring the Gospel. Let's start with gay rights advocates that identify as Christians that prop up the idea that marriage can be same gender, when the ENTIRE witness of scripture opposes that and them.

Red herring, that again has nothing to do with what I stated:

All with the Holy Spirit's help. It is the Holy Spirit that changes people, not me. He may work through me, but it is not me who changes anyone.

_______________________________________

Faith without works is dead. Soner or later love must confront behavior. Read Peter, John and Jude. Oh, and Jesus in the Gospel. He spoke out quite passionately abourt CHANGING BEHAVIOR when becoming a believer.

Again, this has nothing to do with what I stated:

I do advocate for gays in the same way that I advocate for you, my mother, my father, my sister, my best friend, my brothers and sisters in Christ, and anyone else God lays on my heart to pray for. By praying for people, caring for people, and loving people we do advocate for them. Not their sins, them.

______________________________________

There are lot's of things that sound Jesus like. The Dalai Lama sounds very Jesus like. Is he bringing people to a saving knowledge of Christ?

That again does not have any relation to what I just stated:

And the reason I sound 'hysterical' is because I am quite serious about this 'Christianity' and 'Jesus' thing.

_________________________________________

NOTHING CAN UNDERMINE CHRISTIANITY.

Really? Then how come people view Christians as hypocrites? Are you trying to tell me that such views don't undermine Christianity? They make people not want to be Christians. Of course it undermines Christianity. It puts Christianity in poor repute. It gives Christians less respect in conversations.

No way pal. He makes it very clear that encouraging people to sin is worse than just sinning yourself. He doesn't threaten a millstone around your neck for sinning, but He most certainly makes this dire threat to people that "harm" others by leading them into sin.

First of all, it is not a threat. Second, Jesus says nothing about it being worse. Third, this is merely repeating the very thing I am rebutting, and you have no added reasoning, which means you are not rebutting anything, but repeating yourself.

I'm very serious about tis Christianity thing. Read Jude for a guide as to how.

You're not willing to read what people ask you to, why should I show you the same courtesy?

There were two men hanging next to Jesus while He and they were being executed. Only one was invited into paradise.

That doesn't prove anything. You don't know if he went to heaven or not, or if Jesus loved them. Jesus forgave the people who stuck Him on the cross and beat him to a bloody pulp. What makes you think Jesus couldn't love someone He was dying next to?

Maybe we should take our discussion to the apologetics section. There we can discuss parables of people that hear about the Gospel, embrace it for a while and then are lost to whatever fate awaits those that are lost.

Not going to happen. This discussion has nothing to do with apologetics, it has to do with Christian ethics. Plus, apologetics is not the place to be discussing this issue:

Controversial Topics
The following subjects will only be discussed in Ethics & Morality, Christian Philosophy and Ethics, Congregation category, or Recovery category, or any of its sub-forums. You will not post about these subjects in other forums.

<snip

homosexuality
<snip>

I woud think, that Jesus would expect me and you to keep on trying to reach this lost person. You don't do that by encouraging them to make excuse for their sins, or redefine them as not being at all.

Your opinion has repeated itself multiple times and been disagreed with multiple times. I'm not going to change my mind just because you rephrase your argument.

 

[OllieFranz]

Who prints these gay indoctrination books to pass out to fieva dn six year old children? Satan or who else? My first guess would be satan, but I'm sure he's using worldly presses.

And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
​

Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
Mark 3:22-30
​

One should be very careful about making the claim that something comes from Satan. As this passage shows, if it actually comes from God, that is one way of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.

The word "blasphemia" in the above passage means to slander, to bring ill repute to. In Hebrew there is the concept of "chillul Ha Shem" -- "profaning the name(of the LORD)." The phrase comes from Leviticus where confusing the LORD with Molech was a great concern. In Leviticus 18:21-23, it would profane the name of the LORD if someone dedicated to the LORD were to give his seed to Molech, whether in fire, in a temple acolyte or in a beast to be sacrificed.

It puts Christianity in poor repute.

But chillul Ha Shem has a broader meaning as well. This broader meaning is found in Ezekiel 36:19-21, where the people of God were scattered among the nations, and instead of being a living example of what God can do in someone's life, they brought disrupute to the concept of God's chosen people.

So anything that becomes identified in the popular mind with God's Church that causes someone to turn away from the Church and from God is "chillul Ha Shem" is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. This is what Jesus was speaking of when he said in Matthew 18:6 "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."

----

I do not believe there is anything wrong with two men or two women being in love, and sharing their lives in a committed marriage. I can find nothing in the Bible to even suggest that it might be. All of the passages that speak of "homosexual" sins speak of sins that would be just as black if the partners were of opposite sex: rape, idolatry, adultery, promiscuity, sexual slavery. In all of them, read in context, the emphasis is on these sinful circumstances, and not on the gender of the partner.

But even if I am wrong, and in the final judgment I discover that it is a sin, at least I did not commit "chillul Ha Shem." I did not cause any unbelievers to decide that if Christianity is to be like me, they'd rather take their chances getting into Heaven on their own merits.


..

 

[BigBadWlf]

Who prints these gay indoctrination books to pass out to fieva dn six year old children? Satan or who else? My first guess would be satan, but I'm sure he's using worldly presses.

What “indoctrination books”?…. Please provide the names of actual books and to whom they are distributed

Nice trickery, we both know "homosexual" is a construst of the 19th century. Jesus did though, preach about what a marriage is. And it is not same gender in construct. Unless of course you are introducing the concept of the Bride of Christ being a gay guy. I'm not going there with you.

Translation: I cannot actually answer your point

There is no such thing as a gay gene, so obviously gay anything is gay sexual behavior or support of it.

There is no such thing as a black gene.

Not doing as the pagans do is a biblical notion.

You mean things Pagan do like celebrate Easter? Exchange presents in late December. Mourn and remember the dead? Celebrate religious observances with bread and wine? Anoint the sick? Celebrate marriages?

Gay Pride Parades, Rainbow Flags, Pink triangles and LGBT signs call people to this lifestyle and worldview. In fact, thi worldview is being pushed all over the world.

Are you saying that a rainbow contains subliminal advertising pushing people to abandon their heterosexuality?

I challenge you do prove that while encouraging people to support gay rights advocacy. You must live in a basement if you don't think gay advocates are causing people to ENAGAGE IN gay sex.

Well I am living proof of that. No one has ever encouraged me to stop being a flaming heterosexual

The Holy Spirit does not use lies to bring the Gospel. Let's start with gay rights advocates that identify as Christians that prop up the idea that marriage can be same gender, when the ENTIRE witness of scripture opposes that and them.

the holy spirit doesn’t….but a lot of Christians and Christian organizations re more than willing to lie about homosexuals and sexual orientation

NOTHING CAN UNDERMINE CHRISTIANITY.

But that is pretty much all you rant about

 

[AlAyeti]

That has no relation to the quote I used nor the meaning of the quote as it pertains to what I was responding to. Perhaps one that's more blunt? "All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." You stated that you would not go to a church that kicked out a gay person just for attending their church. How does that help that church?

The Church is not supposed to mirror the world.

Then it's not some 'gay agenda', it's Satan doing exactly what we'd expect. What is the point of going on about Satan doing something he's supposed to?

Getting down to why the opposition to "gay rights" is a good thing. It is standing against the powers and principalities corrupting people.

You don't hold Satan accountable to ANYTHING. You are human, he is a fallen angel. He's quite a bit more powerful than you are. How do you expect to hold him to any standard?

We will judge Angels. Satan is nothing more than an Angel. He is nt omnipotent. I hold "him" to a standard by contending for the faith.

You did not respond to my statement about your reply: correlation does not prove causation. You merely reasserted what you already stated.

I'm not resorting to trickery. I'm asking you a question that you still have not answered, after pages of discussion:

It's trickery. You have attempted to turn the table on the fact that you have not one single place in scripture to fight for the worldy rights of people that want to engage in homosexuality or live like they do.

Where does Jesus talk about homosexual attractions, and where does He say to repent of them?

His silence keeps homosexuality an abomination.

And let's say you want to claim Jesus never spoke on homosexuality and agree with me on that point.

He does mention the abomination that makes desolation. Sodom and Gomorrah were made desolate.

Where does Paul or anyone else in the entire Bible condemn homosexual attractions? Gay attractions? Same sex attractions? Whatever you want to call a sexual preference for the same gender?

By preaching holiness. Paul goes out of his weay to "mention" homosexuality by inventing a word to describe it in detail. This is what I mean by you using trickery. There is utterly no support or celbration for same gender sexual attractions or behavior and you can only infer that there is some kind of support for gay behavior from silence because the 19th century word "homosexual" wasn't used in Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek Palestine 2000-years ago.

You made claims earlier that homosexuals need to repent without expanding on what that means or what that looks like. You implied that a homosexual can cease to become a homosexual.

First off, I do not buy your's or the gay ideologues perspective that anyone "is" a homosexual. There is NO evidence that there is a fixed reason why a person is same gender attracted. There is no gay gene. So whatever "makes" a person desire and engage in same gender sexuality, I, as a Christian, will not label a person a "homosexual," as if it is the same thing as being born asian.

Secondly, "Create in me a new heart," does not mean the blood pumping organ in your chest. It means create in me a new heart towards God. David wrote that about "being" a sinner and then being a person of God, and it is applicable to me as well as anyone else. I am on a different team than you are. You seem to beleive that there is a congenital pass for sinning and I never will.

What possible relation does that have to this conversation?
That's off topic. You said celibacy isn't commanded. I'm telling you it's preferred. Do you disagree? If so, why?

Preferred? That's absurd. Marriage is a joyous occasion and one that is a celebration of God's plan.

Back to Satan, he is the father of lies and masquerades as an angel of light. There is an insidious nature to gay marriage. It is an afront to God as it mocks the holiness of marriage as effectively as divorce does. Yet, I have never seen a divorce pride parade, except, or unless, you count Hollywood awards shows.

That is a non-sequitor, a leap in logic.

When you support gay people THEY take it as supporting their sex lives. Who are you trying to kid? There wouldn't be an issue if gay meant NOT acting on your desires.

Even if homosexuality isn't entirely genetic, psychology has shown that genetics play a role, a factor, in who is and is not of the homosexual orientation- which has little to do with sexual behavior.

Psychology? Why not turn to Tarot cards? A

It has far more to do with sexual preference. Do you know what the difference between behavior and preference is?

Trickery. You are promoting the gay agenda with some kind of odd convoluted ploy. LG & B community is only pushing their physical sexuality otherwise there would be no issue at all we would be dealing with.

Again, off topic. I stated the following:
If you disagree, then provide biblical support.

Biblical support for what? That The Bible doesn't support LGBT activism? IT DOESN'T. There is no such thing as pro gay anything anywhere in The Bible. Your entire theology is founded on nothing supporting it. "Jesus never said anything about homosexuality." So THAT is your basis for pro gay theology? That's absurd morality, let alone theology. Jesus never said a word about inappropriate content. That means that we can show inappropriate content flicks at the men's retreat?

Chapter and verse, please, and a good solid defense for lust simply being desire and anger simply being an emotion in the verses you do reference.

First YOU show even one pro gay piece of scripture. It is you liberals that are taken the Bible apart piece by piece and discarding what opposes your agenda. Orthodoxy existed before the liberals carved it out of the Bible to introduce bizaare teachings like gay marriage.

Then I guess I live in a basement, because advocating for civil and legal rights has nothing to do with encouraging sex.

It does to the LGBT community. Your support encourages them to continue to promote homosexuality as a sex act. And they are doing just that in schools and now Churches. Otherwise "marriage" would not be an issue.

If you think it does, then please prove it. You are making affirmative claims, and the burden of proof rests with you.

The burden of proof rested its case against homosexuality when the canon of scripture was established.

"Jesus never said . . ." is not valid excuse to homosexualize The Church.

Really? Then how come people view Christians as hypocrites?

Because so many "Christian" act like the world and its ways. Your gay theology is Humanism coverd up with a few Christian concepts. But the yeast of humanism can no longer be hidden.

Are you trying to tell me that such views don't undermine Christianity?

How does a wrong undermine Christianity? The very nature of the writings of the New Testament is to challenge Christians doing what they shouldn't do and setting them BACK on the right track. Your theology keeps them off track.

They make people not want to be Christians.

Really? Your answer is to make Christians like the world. That is causing the strife and schism coming at the Church on this gay plague infecting every facet of The Church.

Of course it undermines Christianity. It puts Christianity in poor repute. It gives Christians less respect in conversations.

That's absurd. What causes Christians to have a bad reputation is the expectations that people repent. Repent of their sins. You and the world are saying that that is hate. Get it right GC87.

First of all, it is not a threat. Second, Jesus says nothing about it being worse. Third, this is merely repeating the very thing I am rebutting, and you have no added reasoning, which means you are not rebutting anything, but repeating yourself.

I'm repeating sound theology. You are badgering Jesus not me.

You're not willing to read what people ask you to, why should I show you the same courtesy?

I have never cared if my positions offend liberals, progressives or pro gay people. Jesus offended many people. The Apostles were slaughtered by the people they offended. And, for the exact same reason that my positions are railed against here at CF.

How dare I, a sinner, contend against sinners promoting sin?

That doesn't prove anything. You don't know if he went to heaven or not, or if Jesus loved them. Jesus forgave the people who stuck Him on the cross and beat him to a bloody pulp.

The Temple was burnt to the ground because of what Jesus said to his adversaries. Your theology smacks of 60's love fest nonsense and not repentance, forgiveness and holiness. In many parables, Jesus tore into people.

What makes you think Jesus couldn't love someone He was dying next to?

The text is plain enough.

Not going to happen. This discussion has nothing to do with apologetics, it has to do with Christian ethics.

Apologetics IS Christian ethics. Heresy and lies are apologetc issues. It is not ethical to attempt to alter The Church and Christian truth into a version of the Humanist Manifesto or some other new order. You want me to prove my positions, and yet, you have absolutely nothing to support yours except some ideology of leftists.

Plus, apologetics is not the place to be discussing this issue:

CF is completely wrong on that. Gay theology is presenting another Gospel and opposing scripture and inventing a new religion yet calling it "Christian." Apologetics is where that attempt is shattered into pieces.

Your opinion has repeated itself multiple times and been disagreed with multiple times.

By silence on scriptural soundness and opposed via progressive (worldy) politics. Hardly an ethical Christian position, but the liberals try to paint it that way. And with nothing more than "it doesn't say . . ." to license a new alien religion under the title of Christian truth.

I'm not going to change my mind just because you rephrase your argument.

If the truth of declared scripture won't change your mind, I have already recognized that my attempts to contend against your new theology by using Apostolic truth wasn't going to get you to change.

I am not writing for you, but for those that need to see orthodoxy upheld.

 

[AlAyeti]

What “indoctrination books”?…. Please provide the names of actual books and to whom they are distributedTranslation: I cannot actually answer your pointThere is no such thing as a black gene. You mean things Pagan do like celebrate Easter? Exchange presents in late December. Mourn and remember the dead? Celebrate religious observances with bread and wine? Anoint the sick? Celebrate marriages? Are you saying that a rainbow contains subliminal advertising pushing people to abandon their heterosexuality?Well I am living proof of that. No one has ever encouraged me to stop being a flaming heterosexual
the holy spirit doesn’t….but a lot of Christians and Christian organizations re more than willing to lie about homosexuals and sexual orientation But that is pretty much all you rant about

It's not surpising that you end up with a petty insult. Your positions are based on mocking Christian truth, and on silence to license gay behavior in The Church.

You need a different username. That's just a suggestion.

 

[Phinehas2]

Jase,

Which you can't actually prove

I can prove it is what is written in the Bible, and you can’t prove it isn’t. Is this a question again of whether one believes the Bible or not? If we have no common source the debate is not going to be about an issue but about whether there is any benchmark of faith we can test against.

 

[Phinehas2]

Godschild87,

Oh? Where in Romans does Paul say 'I received this from the Lord'?

Where in Romans does he says he doesn&#8217;t? He says it in Galatians 1, and indicates where he gives his own opinions in 1 Corinthians, therefore by what logic would you assume Romans is all his own opinions when he doesn&#8217;t declare it so?

Clarify.

With respect, what is the attraction of one sex as opposed to another if not the sex of the person? The attraction is the sex.

 

[Archivist]

I do believe that's a good idea, even from a Star Wars book... good timing, just read that page not even two hours ago.

Roddenberry was a humanist.

AlAyeti, you really need to learn your facts. Gene Roddenberry--humanist or not--created Star Trek, not Star Wars.

 

[AlAyeti]

AlAyeti, you really need to learn your facts. Gene Roddenberry--humanist or not--created Star Trek, not Star Wars.

Oops.

(And I love Roddenberry too.)

 

[OllieFranz]

With respect, what is the attraction of one sex as opposed to another if not the sex of the person? The attraction is the sex.

So every time you see an attractive person, if it's a man you think "He takes care of his body as a temple of the Spirit," but if it's a woman all you think is "I'd do that, yeah!"? The only reason you would have to be friendly with women is to find the one you want as your wife? Or that you allow to become temptation to adultery? If it's not true of you, stop claiming that it is true of someone else.

 

[AlAyeti]

Originally Posted by AlAyeti

Who prints these gay indoctrination books to pass out to fieva dn six year old children? Satan or who else? My first guess would be satan, but I'm sure he's using worldly presses.
​

And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

It is the likes of you and your gay advocacy that is causing schism. You may want to check yourself there.

Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit. Mark 3:22-30

So you are claiming that books about homosexual penguins and homosexual princes is in keeping with the Spirit of God? Those gay books are speaking of Jesus????

Please.

Jesus claims that causing these little ones to sin is a more gross sin and he uses very threatening language towards people like these Gay Propagandists trying to indoctrinate little children into homosexuality.

Jesus uses language that would get him charged with a hate crime for inciting violence against LGBT's and the Gay Agenda the push with the help of advocates like you.

"But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone hung around your neck."

- Mark 9:42

One should be very careful about making the claim that something comes from Satan. As this passage shows, if it actually comes from God, that is one way of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit.

I won't throw away my confidence because of your threat. I am most calm in my handling of the sinfulness of gay theology. God is going to damn me because I care about little children and the Brethren? I don't think I have any worries on that come judgment day. At least I am holding to the grace of Christ that I have not encouraged others to sin.

The word "blasphemia" in the above passage means to slander, to bring ill repute to. In Hebrew there is the concept of "chillul Ha Shem" -- "profaning the name(of the LORD)."

Gay marriage profanes the name of the Lord. Pro gay advocacy profanes the name of the Lord. It is you yoking the name of the Lord to abomination, not I.

As we wil see here:

The phrase comes from Leviticus where confusing the LORD with Molech was a great concern.

Molech, the god of abortion rights advocates. In every way shape and form this wickedness is walking the earth.

In Leviticus 18:21-23, it would profane the name of the LORD if someone dedicated to the LORD were to give his seed to Molech, whether in fire, in a temple acolyte or in a beast to be sacrificed.

You may want to study about Molech worship and how it is more supportive of gay behavior than of Christian ethics and morality.

But chillul Ha Shem has a broader meaning as well. This broader meaning is found in Ezekiel 36:19-21, where the people of God were scattered among the nations, and instead of being a living example of what God can do in someone's life, they brought disrupute to the concept of God's chosen people.

BY BECOMING LIKE THE PAGANS THEY LIVED WITH!!! By doing what the ungodly do. My friend, wake up!!!!!!!!!!!!

So anything that becomes identified in the popular mind with God's Church that causes someone to turn away from the Church and from God is "chillul Ha Shem" is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Marriage is a man and a woman. Per Jesus, per God. Supporting gay rights is a non Christian endeavor.

Hello????

This is what Jesus was speaking of when he said in Matthew 18:6 "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."

And I just showed you how that is in context to use in regards to gay rights in The Church. You are doing what the Israelites did when they became corrupted by the abominable practices of the peoples they lives among.

----

I do not believe there is anything wrong with two men or two women being in love, and sharing their lives in a committed marriage.

As do the pagans believe.

I can find nothing in the Bible to even suggest that it might be. All of the passages that speak of "homosexual" sins speak of sins that would be just as black if the partners were of opposite sex: rape, idolatry, adultery, promiscuity, sexual slavery. In all of them, read in context, the emphasis is on these sinful circumstances, and not on the gender of the partner.

There is no such thing as a positive model of homosexuality anywhere in scripture. This is why your side says "the word of God" has been broken down to just some moral advice from some people that lived a long time ago and that have no bearing on our world today.

But even if I am wrong, and in the final judgment I discover that it is a sin, at least I did not commit "chillul Ha Shem."

Maybe, I don't know your true motives or where they come from. Right now, I compare your desires and actions to that of Jesus and the Disciples and you are opposing what they said and just discarding or redefining anything they said that doesn't fit your social politics.

I did not cause any unbelievers to decide that if Christianity is to be like me, they'd rather take their chances getting into Heaven on their own merits.

Why wouldn't a pagan or the godless accept your Christianity? They do not have to change anything about themselves at all. Your version of Christianity is so similar to the permissiveness of the world, why wouldn't the unbleiever want to tack on a Christian label to their life? It doesn't really do anything.

I don't think that your message and the message of/in the word of God are similar at all. Your views are basically and botton line in accord with the Humanst Manifesto.

Read it and see for yourself.

Test all things and hold fast to that which is truth.

How am I to trust your positions when there is hardly anything different in what you present and what secularism affirms?







..[/quote]

 

[Phinehas2]

Olliefranz,

So every time you see an attractive person, if it's a man you think "He takes care of his body as a temple of the Spirit," but if it's a woman all you think is "I'd do that, yeah!"?

Well you have just demonstrated the &#8216;do that&#8217; would be restricted by the sex of the person, that&#8217;s the attraction.

 

[AlAyeti]

Olliefranz,
Well you have just demonstrated the ‘do that’ would be restricted by the sex of the person, that’s the attraction.

You know, both you and I can agree with Ollie when he's right.

I think his position on the lust deal was stated well.

 

[BigBadWlf]

It's not surpising that you end up with a petty insult. Your positions are based on mocking Christian truth, and on silence to license gay behavior in The Church.

I cannot help but notice you declined to support your claim about “indoctrination books” I cant say that I am surprised you would try to avoid backing up such a claim

You need a different username. That's just a suggestion.

why?

 

[AlAyeti]

I cannot help but notice you declined to support your claim about “indoctrination books” I cant say that I am surprised you would try to avoid backing up such a claim
why?

Your bark is no less ineffective as your bite. I have yet to see you backup any of your positions with anything other than mocking and the typical lefty vitriolic tone towards Bible affirming Christians. But ubiquity does bring a sort of numbing comfort when dealing with people of your perspective. I mean obviously, you have a right to your opinionated beliefs.

Michael and Tonya Hartsell of Wilmington, N.C., never expected to be confronted with the issue of homosexuality when they sat down with their seven-year-old daughter to read the book she had brought home from the Rachel Freeman Elementary School library.

But just a few pages into King & King, the Hartsells discovered that their first grader had unknowingly picked out a fairy tale about a homosexual prince who marries another prince.

They were more stunned by the book&#700;s ending—a picture of the two men kissing with a red heart covering their lips.

“I was shocked!”

Mrs. Hartsell told the North Carolina Family Policy Council. “All I could think about was how long has this book been on the shelves at the library, and how many other innocent children have gotten hold of it?” The Hartsells alerted other parents about the book and filed a written complaint with the school. Thanks to their efforts, a school committee voted on March 27, 2004 to restrict access to the book to adults only.


The fact that a first grader in North Carolina could go to her elementary school library and pick out a fairy tale about two homosexual princes who get “married” raises some important questions about what is happening in our schools.

Many parents mistakenly assume that homosexuality is not being promoted in North Carolina&#700;s education system,

especially when state law prohibits homosexuals from marrying . . .

- SAY NO: Homosexual Indoctrination:How Safety is Used to Promote Homosexuality in Schools


AND:

http://www.ncfpc.org/PolicyPapers/Findings%200412-HomosexualEd.pdf

 

[OllieFranz]

It is the likes of you and your gay advocacy that is causing schism. You may want to check yourself there.

I have never accused those I disagree with of being of Satan. That is a very serious charge, and should not be made lightly.

So you are claiming that books about homosexual penguins and homosexual princes is in keeping with the Spirit of God? Those gay books are speaking of Jesus????

I did not say that. I merely warned you not to bandy the charge of Satanism around lightly. It is a serious charge, with dire consequences if you are wrong.

Jesus claims that causing these little ones to sin is a more gross sin and he uses very threatening language towards people like these Gay Propagandists trying to indoctrinate little children into homosexuality.

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.

Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Matthew 18:3-35

​

Oh? Where, exactly, does Jesus say that it is "gay propagandists trying to indoctrinate little children into homosexuality"? My Bible merely speaks of offending believers. And an offense is not merely something that upsets their sense of "all's right with the world." He goes on to describe the effects of offense, and to suggest mutilating oneself if necessary to avoid offending someone. Offense in this sense is clearly doing tangible harm -- "offense" = violence. Jesus then goes on and speaks of how we should treat with the offender, and why.

The why is that He is unwilling that any should suffer, but that all should come to repentance. The how is to forgive them, and forgive them, and forgive them again.

If you are the one whom he has sinned against, go to him and explain his sin. If he does not understand or does not care, bring a trusted friend to help you explain. Then an elder of the church. This is not a license to catalog all of his sins and failings. You are authorized only to explain how his actions have caused you harm.

If he still does not apologize for the harm he has done, the you are to consider him as a pagan or a publican -- someone who needs to hear the Good News of forgiveness and Salvation.

But always your attitude should be one of forgiveness, since you too are an offender against others, but you are a forgiven offender.

So nope. Still not seeing Jesus condemning "propaganda" to the millstone. Only an unforgiving attitude.

Jesus uses language that would get him charged with a hate crime for inciting violence against LGBT's and the Gay Agenda the push with the help of advocates like you.

No, Jesus does not advocate that anyone should be drowned in the sea with a millstone. He laments that some people are violent in their ignorance of the Good News, and that, were it not for forgiveness, it would be necessary to use preemptive violence on the worst offenders.

I won't throw away my confidence because of your threat.

It was not intended as a "threat." But one must be very careful about casually throwing Satan's name around.

 

[AlAyeti]

I have never accused those I disagree with of being of Satan. That is a very serious charge, and should not be made lightly.

Sooner or later there has to come a time where mere men are not what is trying to alter The Church into a version of a gay pride parade. I'm not at all afraid of exposing whi and what id behind this gay plague trying to overcome The Church. In fact, the way in which gay rights is argues sounds exactly like how Satan talks: Is that what God reallllllllly says? And also, scripture is misused, abused and finally just disregarded by the gay rights advocates altogther.

I did not say that. I merely warned you not to bandy the charge of Satanism around lightly. It is a serious charge, with dire consequences if you are wrong.

Jesus showed me how to apply it.

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

There is not a shred of humbleness in gay advocacy. It is a demand that their actions and beliefs ARE NOT SIN and to chalenge them you are guilty of hatred. Man that sounds very evil.

And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Gay propaganda is indeed being leveled straight at little children to get them to embrace homosexuality. I fully charge Satan is the head of that endeavor.

Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

The reason I take my stand against the Gay Agenda.

Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Metaphor or maybe marrying a woman for a gay guy isn't such a demand at all.

Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

And when I meet those Angels, we will have fought for the same thing.

For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

That is called a hate crime now. To try to get a person to see how homosexuality is bad behavior, LGBT groups around the world will see that as hate. Jesus sees it as the Gospel being preached.

And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

YOU have written that YOU have never seen a gay person get "cured." Jesus says to keep looking and keep trying. There is only a very few times when we give up on a person. They way you present your positions, it is as soon as the come out as gay. They can't be "cured" you say. Isn't that what you have written?

Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Ezekiel 33 says the same thing. Jesus, the same yesterday, today and forever. Except in gay theology and liberal Churches. The old stuff gets thrown out.

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

LGBT's now call that bullying. And they have invented new laws to stop Christians from reaching out to homosexuals. They (LGBT's) seem to agree with you that they do not want anyone cured nor can they be cured of homosexuality.

I will never buy that lie.

And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Jesus the hatemongering homophobic bigot?

Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

What year? Liberal and gay theology changes with pop culture from era to era from age to age. A Jesus that isn't the same throughout time.

Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Not when you can redefine and discard scripture. In liberal theology what Jesus is quoted of saying there is little more than nonsense now.

Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Gays and their advocates DEMAND that they are not sinners. There truly is no cure for sins when they are denied.

Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

The charge you get from gay advocates is that because Christians allow other sinners in their Churches (divorced and adulterers), they should allow LGBT's in their Churches. Two wrongs don't make a right even in today's world right?

But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.

That sounds very much like the anger you get from gay advocates towards we sinners that try to get them to repent. They rant about our past debts and tell us to leave them to their current ones.

Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Matthew 18:3-35

Evangelicals that oppose homosexuality are themselves sinners for this or that. But LGBT's and their advocates call us sickening names and label us as not being Christians at all (hate) for reaching out to people that engage in homosexuality and DARE to preach repentance and forgiveness of the sin of homosexual behavior.

You need to go outside and see what is really going on towards us. These gay advocates DEMAND that we not be forgiven of our debts and charge us with crimes (sins) that God has forgiven us of.



​

Oh? Where, exactly, does Jesus say that it is "gay propagandists trying to indoctrinate little children into homosexuality"?

You refuse to call homosexual behavior a sin, so it's no surprise that you are blind to what LGBT's are doing to encourage little children to embrace gay behavior.

My Bible merely speaks of offending believers.

I would apply that to you and the other pro gay advcates here. Your support is seen as celebration and validation of LGBT behavior BY LGBT's.

And an offense is not merely something that upsets their sense of "all's right with the world." He goes on to describe the effects of offense, and to suggest mutilating oneself if necessary to avoid offending someone.

Mutilating? All we Christians are asking of a man or a woman, is that IF they desire a marriage they marry as Jesus described the form of it. If loving a "wife" as Jesus loves The Church, by any man, is something they cannot tolerate, than they must search their souls as to what is more important. Living as the world doess or living as Christ taught us.

Offense in this sense is clearly doing tangible harm -- "offense" = violence. Jesus then goes on and speaks of how we should treat with the offender, and why.

The position here with almost every gay advocate, is that people commit suicide that engage in homosexuality, on a larger scale than those that do not. THAT is REAL harm.

The why is that He is unwilling that any should suffer, but that all should come to repentance. The how is to forgive them, and forgive them, and forgive them again.

There are people here with souther states in their usernames that demand that we Evangelcials are guilty of hate if we try to get a person that engages in homosexuality to stop and "sin no more." It is a common charge against us. If one does not repent and indeed is "proud" of their sins, then forgiveness is refused BY THEM and not obtained.

If you are the one whom he has sinned against, go to him and explain his sin. If he does not understand or does not care, bring a trusted friend to help you explain. Then an elder of the church. This is not a license to catalog all of his sins and failings. You are authorized only to explain how his actions have caused you harm.

If he still does not apologize for the harm he has done, the you are to consider him as a pagan or a publican -- someone who needs to hear the Good News of forgiveness and Salvation.

But always your attitude should be one of forgiveness, since you too are an offender against others, but you are a forgiven offender.

So nope. Still not seeing Jesus condemning "propaganda" to the millstone. Only an unforgiving attitude.

It is more than propaganda. It is putting stumbling blaocks in front of little children to get them TO sin. Only God can stop this gay agenda from succeeding. But we are also NOT to remain silent about it either.

No, Jesus does not advocate that anyone should be drowned in the sea with a millstone.

Gee ya think? Nor that they should cut off hands and gouge out thier eyes. He was trying to wake up pro sin people. Sound familiar?

He laments that some people are violent in their ignorance of the Good News, and that, were it not for forgiveness, it would be necessary to use preemptive violence on the worst offenders.

When sin has been redefined as a civil right, then forgiveness is no longer in existence in regards to what has been redefined. At least, in the mind of the people thinking they can ignore truth for carnal goals.




It was not intended as a "threat." But one must be very careful about casually throwing Satan's name around.[/quote]

 

[Zebra1552]

Godschild87,
Where in Romans does he says he doesn&#8217;t? He says it in Galatians 1, and indicates where he gives his own opinions in 1 Corinthians, therefore by what logic would you assume Romans is all his own opinions when he doesn&#8217;t declare it so?

I never made that assumption. I asked you where Paul says he's speaking for God. Galatians 1 is a good answer.

With respect, what is the attraction of one sex as opposed to another if not the sex of the person? The attraction is the sex.

The attraction is merely a preference to have sex with one gender over another. It doesn't mean that they want sex with all people of the same gender in the same way that heterosexually attracted people don't have sex on THEIR brains all the time.

Gay sex, gay romance... that's another story entirely, covered by Romans 1:26-27 as sinful.



And just so the record's straight. I don't promote gay sex. I don't promote same sex attractions. Same sex attractions are a temptation that some Christians unfortunately have to deal with and can't act on without sinning. Same sex attractions, being a temptation, are not sinful. Gay sex is sinful, as is gay romance.

However, my views on the world and the law are different. If people want to go sin, then I say let them. I fail to see why I should try to legislate the morality of people that don't share my views or my relationship with God. In the same way that God gave them over, so should we. This country is not a theocracy.

 

[Zebra1552]

The Church is not supposed to mirror the world.



Getting down to why the opposition to "gay rights" is a good thing. It is standing against the powers and principalities corrupting people.



We will judge Angels. Satan is nothing more than an Angel. He is nt omnipotent. I hold "him" to a standard by contending for the faith.



It's trickery. You have attempted to turn the table on the fact that you have not one single place in scripture to fight for the worldy rights of people that want to engage in homosexuality or live like they do.



His silence keeps homosexuality an abomination.



He does mention the abomination that makes desolation. Sodom and Gomorrah were made desolate.



By preaching holiness. Paul goes out of his weay to "mention" homosexuality by inventing a word to describe it in detail. This is what I mean by you using trickery. There is utterly no support or celbration for same gender sexual attractions or behavior and you can only infer that there is some kind of support for gay behavior from silence because the 19th century word "homosexual" wasn't used in Aramaic/Hebrew/Greek Palestine 2000-years ago.



First off, I do not buy your's or the gay ideologues perspective that anyone "is" a homosexual. There is NO evidence that there is a fixed reason why a person is same gender attracted. There is no gay gene. So whatever "makes" a person desire and engage in same gender sexuality, I, as a Christian, will not label a person a "homosexual," as if it is the same thing as being born asian.

Secondly, "Create in me a new heart," does not mean the blood pumping organ in your chest. It means create in me a new heart towards God. David wrote that about "being" a sinner and then being a person of God, and it is applicable to me as well as anyone else. I am on a different team than you are. You seem to beleive that there is a congenital pass for sinning and I never will.



Preferred? That's absurd. Marriage is a joyous occasion and one that is a celebration of God's plan.

Back to Satan, he is the father of lies and masquerades as an angel of light. There is an insidious nature to gay marriage. It is an afront to God as it mocks the holiness of marriage as effectively as divorce does. Yet, I have never seen a divorce pride parade, except, or unless, you count Hollywood awards shows.



When you support gay people THEY take it as supporting their sex lives. Who are you trying to kid? There wouldn't be an issue if gay meant NOT acting on your desires.



Psychology? Why not turn to Tarot cards? A



Trickery. You are promoting the gay agenda with some kind of odd convoluted ploy. LG & B community is only pushing their physical sexuality otherwise there would be no issue at all we would be dealing with.



Biblical support for what? That The Bible doesn't support LGBT activism? IT DOESN'T. There is no such thing as pro gay anything anywhere in The Bible. Your entire theology is founded on nothing supporting it. "Jesus never said anything about homosexuality." So THAT is your basis for pro gay theology? That's absurd morality, let alone theology. Jesus never said a word about inappropriate content. That means that we can show inappropriate content flicks at the men's retreat?

Chapter and verse, please, and a good solid defense for lust simply being desire and anger simply being an emotion in the verses you do reference.

First YOU show even one pro gay piece of scripture. It is you liberals that are taken the Bible apart piece by piece and discarding what opposes your agenda. Orthodoxy existed before the liberals carved it out of the Bible to introduce bizaare teachings like gay marriage.





It does to the LGBT community. Your support encourages them to continue to promote homosexuality as a sex act. And they are doing just that in schools and now Churches. Otherwise "marriage" would not be an issue.



The burden of proof rested its case against homosexuality when the canon of scripture was established.

"Jesus never said . . ." is not valid excuse to homosexualize The Church.




Because so many "Christian" act like the world and its ways. Your gay theology is Humanism coverd up with a few Christian concepts. But the yeast of humanism can no longer be hidden.



How does a wrong undermine Christianity? The very nature of the writings of the New Testament is to challenge Christians doing what they shouldn't do and setting them BACK on the right track. Your theology keeps them off track.



Really? Your answer is to make Christians like the world. That is causing the strife and schism coming at the Church on this gay plague infecting every facet of The Church.



That's absurd. What causes Christians to have a bad reputation is the expectations that people repent. Repent of their sins. You and the world are saying that that is hate. Get it right GC87.



I'm repeating sound theology. You are badgering Jesus not me.



I have never cared if my positions offend liberals, progressives or pro gay people. Jesus offended many people. The Apostles were slaughtered by the people they offended. And, for the exact same reason that my positions are railed against here at CF.

How dare I, a sinner, contend against sinners promoting sin?



The Temple was burnt to the ground because of what Jesus said to his adversaries. Your theology smacks of 60's love fest nonsense and not repentance, forgiveness and holiness. In many parables, Jesus tore into people.



The text is plain enough.



Apologetics IS Christian ethics. Heresy and lies are apologetc issues. It is not ethical to attempt to alter The Church and Christian truth into a version of the Humanist Manifesto or some other new order. You want me to prove my positions, and yet, you have absolutely nothing to support yours except some ideology of leftists.



CF is completely wrong on that. Gay theology is presenting another Gospel and opposing scripture and inventing a new religion yet calling it "Christian." Apologetics is where that attempt is shattered into pieces.



By silence on scriptural soundness and opposed via progressive (worldy) politics. Hardly an ethical Christian position, but the liberals try to paint it that way. And with nothing more than "it doesn't say . . ." to license a new alien religion under the title of Christian truth.



If the truth of declared scripture won't change your mind, I have already recognized that my attempts to contend against your new theology by using Apostolic truth wasn't going to get you to change.

I am not writing for you, but for those that need to see orthodoxy upheld.

AlAyeti, until you can provide evidence for your claims that I have a gay agenda, promote homosexuality, and lead people to be like the world, I will not be responding to you.

In the same manner, until you can provide evidence for your claims that homosexual attractions- often referred to as same sex attractions- I will not be responding to you.

Enjoy your day.