Gay Leaders--the Army v Boy Scouts

[ncunigan85]

What are your opinions on gay military leaders and boy scout leaders? As a former boy scout and now leader, i dont believe it is safe for homosexuals to be involved in that kind of organization. There are too many times were boys are alone with leaders and the opportunities are too great to be allowed. Even if they were to have a son (ie from a former marriage or adopted) i would still not approve of the situation.

 

[DoomMoose]

Homosexuals and pedophiles are different

 

[MoonlessNight]

What are your opinions on gay military leaders and boy scout leaders? As a former boy scout and now leader, i dont believe it is safe for homosexuals to be involved in that kind of organization. There are too many times were boys are alone with leaders and the opportunities are too great to be allowed. Even if they were to have a son (ie from a former marriage or adopted) i would still not approve of the situation.

Well first off, I want to comment that you make it sound like every homosexual is also a rapist, but I can see your point. After all, people get worried when heterosexual men are alone with girls, so I suppose it's fair.

That being said I have no problem with gays in the military. It has no effect on their performance in battle so I see no reason to discriminate. As for the boy scouts, I don't really see the problem, but I support their decision to ban gays from leadership positions. It does amount to a private club, and there shouldn't be regulations on how the membership is determined for those.

 

[ncunigan85]

Homosexuals and pedophiles are different

Even so--the risk of sexual abuse is still high enough to keep me from allowing my own son to be in that kind of situation at a young age. I have no problem with homosexuality, but do not support their lifestyle.

 

[DoomMoose]

Just making sure I get tired of hearing Fundies say all
Homosexuals rape young boys or some such dribble.

 

[Arikay]

Would you allow your son to be alone with a female boyscout leader?

 

[ncunigan85]

Yes-i would. I have no experience with this, but I would believe that the sacres left on a kid being sexually assaulted by a man at that age wouold be severly worse then that of a woman. I also believe that women are a kinder gender and are less likely to attempt sexual abuse on a small child. I dont know the numbers but i do believe that the number of male pedophiles is much higher than that of female. Also, there is a signifactly less number of female leaders in boy scout troops. The troop i belong to actually has one of the highest numbers of female leaders in our district. I, myself, went to Philmont Scout Ranch with four female leaders and no male leaders.

 

[Arikay]

But you dont have any numbers or anything else to back it up with?

As it would appear that you are basing your conclusions on assumptions. The assumption that one type of person who is attracted to men is more likely to be a pedofile than another type of person.

What if the numbers showed that gay men are just as likely to be a pedophile as straight women, would you still feel safer with women but not gay men?

 

[ncunigan85]

Yes. I dont support homosexuality and do not want my son to be around them. I again have no problem with homosexuality but agree with John Locke that we are products of our experiences and I will not allow the influence of homosexuality to be around my son. As for numbers, i watch the news, and i havent heard to much about female pedophiles. News media does a pretty good job of reporting these kinds of things.

 

[ncunigan85]

When I say "News media does a pretty good job of reporting these kinds of things" I dont mean that they are not stereotypical, but they do report more men then women. I will try to find some actual numbers for you. You cant always believe what you hear in the news, I know.

 

[ObbiQuiet]

I think you need to go make a few homosexual friends.

 

[Arikay]

Be carefull with taking your world view from the news media. A story I tell often here, but its still fits pretty well.

A couple years ago, we had a "the year of the shark attack" as some news media put it. As it seemed like shark attacks had increase that year, and it was all over the news. In reality shark attacks were around the same as last year, the only difference was they were getting national attention, thus it Seemed like they had increased, yet in reality they stayed the same.
A similar thing happend the next year and it was labeled the "year of child abductions" but again, reality showed a different picture than the news media. The reporting of child abductions had increased, but the number of abductions was actually Down from the year before.

So, be carefull you aren't falling in a trap here, as news media only reports what they think will get the rating and sell papers. But reality can often be much different than the way the news presents it.


So if you dont support homosexuality, why not just come out and say that in the begining, instead of trying to hide it by calling gay men pedophiles. As far as kids being a product of their environment, that is partially true, however, that does not mean he will ever even know his leader is gay. As Obbi said, you need some gay friends. You may find out that for some of them, you would Never know they were gay unless you were close friends or they told you.

 

[jo-shmo]

This is funny. I guess the girls are right, men are pigs. We don't trust a straight man with our daughters or a gay man with our sons. Yet a womans sexual preferance doesn't really matter to us, or at least to me. Hmm...If women think men are pigs, and men think other men are pigs, does that make us all pigs? I guess sex, not just sexual preferance, is what really matters in our eyes. Nifty.

 

[DXRocker73]

I'm not going to stand up for gays in the military or in Boy Scouts, I see it this way: Don't ask, don't tell. Simple as that. I don't care to know who you were with and what you did last night, you're not molesting children, you seem decent. Fine with me.

If anyone's thinking I'm discriminating here, don't. I feel the exact same about straight men and women.

 

[jayem]

What are your opinions on gay military leaders and boy scout leaders? As a former boy scout and now leader, i dont believe it is safe for homosexuals to be involved in that kind of organization. /QUOTE]


This really shouldn't come as a surprise, but there already are gay and lesbian military leaders and gay and lesbian scout leaders, and there always have been. And most of the time, you never hear about it because they do their jobs, and they don't molest anyone. I personally have never been in the military, but several of my colleagues have. I understand that especially in the medical corps, if the military discharged all the gays and lesbians, they wouldn't have a functioning medical service. Now that's hearsay, but I think it's credible.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

What are your opinions on gay military leaders and boy scout leaders? As a former boy scout and now leader, i dont believe it is safe for homosexuals to be involved in that kind of organization. There are too many times were boys are alone with leaders and the opportunities are too great to be allowed. Even if they were to have a son (ie from a former marriage or adopted) i would still not approve of the situation.

You're either not really a boy scout leader or you've never had training. Both boy scouts and their leaders are trained NEVER to be alone with any adult during a Scouting sponored event accept for their parent or guardian.

The Scouting policies on sexual abuse are so strict that, to my knowledge, Boy Scouts of America has never been successfully sued by anyone for neglegence in this area.

 

[theeyesoftammyfaye]

homosexuals in the military should be a nonissue. i can't think of a good reason, period, to deny them the right to serve OPENLY in the military.

as far as the boy scouts are concerned: i think it's awful that this organisation feels the need to discriminate against homosexuals (as well as atheists) but i also understand that as a private organisation they have this right as long as they receive no federal/governmental funds whatsoever.

that being said, a couple factoids:
1. According to the National Clearinghouse, approximately 90% of offenders are known to the children. In addition, a child is 3 times more likely to be-molested by a recognized, trusted adult than by a stranger.
2. Heterosexual males present a greater risk to boys and girls (emphasis mine).
source
http://www.goodtouchbadtouch.com/abuse_facts.html

 

[Volos]

Originally posted by : ncunigan85

Gay Leaders--the Army v Boy Scouts

What are your opinions on gay military leaders and boy scout leaders? As a former boy scout and now leader, i dont believe it is safe for homosexuals to be involved in that kind of organization. There are too many times were boys are alone with leaders and the opportunities are too great to be allowed. Even if they were to have a son (ie from a former marriage or adopted) i would still not approve of the situation.



Even so--the risk of sexual abuse is still high enough to keep me from allowing my own son to be in that kind of situation at a young age. I have no problem with homosexuality, but do not support their lifestyle.



Yes-i would. I have no experience with this, but I would believe that the sacres left on a kid being sexually assaulted by a man at that age wouold be severly worse then that of a woman. I also believe that women are a kinder gender and are less likely to attempt sexual abuse on a small child. I dont know the numbers but i do believe that the number of male pedophiles is much higher than that of female. Also, there is a signifactly less number of female leaders in boy scout troops. The troop i belong to actually has one of the highest numbers of female leaders in our district. I, myself, went to Philmont Scout Ranch with four female leaders and no male leaders.

You seem to be basing your conclusion that gay men pose some sort of risk to children of faulty information.



The idea that gay men are more likely to sexually assault children is a common lie created by and propped up by the religious right.

When real scientists looked at the sexual orientation of child molesters they found gay men were significantly less likely to sexually assault children than heterosexual men. Jenny and her colleagues (Jenny, C., Roesler, T. A., & Poyer, K. L. (1994). Are children at risk for sexual abuse by homosexuals? Pediatrics, 94(1), 41-44.) found that less than one half of one percent of adults how sexually mosest children were homosexual.



Groth and Birnbaum (1998) interviewed all convinced child molesters in prison in Massachusetts and couldn’t find any homosexuals.





As for gays in the military:

There are a number of countries that no longer discriminate in their militaries. When looking at militaries that are integrated (heterosexual and homosexual) it was found that anti-gay sentiment and homophobia significantly decreased among members of the military. This is much like what happened when the United States military stopped segregating enlisted personal based on the color of their skin.



Considering some of your statements you would do well to get yourself some gay friends, it might help your homophobia.

 

[Lillithspeak]

You don't have a problem with homosexuals, yet you think they are pedophiles? Do you even listen to yourself? Do you even know what the definition of a pedophile is? Go, educate yourself before you smear whole groups of people with your ignorance.

 

[ncunigan85]

You're either not really a boy scout leader or you've never had training. Both boy scouts and their leaders are trained NEVER to be alone with any adult during a Scouting sponored event accept for their parent or guardian.

I have been in Boy Scouts for the past 15 of my 19 years and I have been left alone with a leader other than my mom or dad countless times. I have yet to go through training as an adult leader, and i have no doubt that they train you not to be alone, but it happens all the time. How bout a Scoutmasters Conference for example?

Thank you all for your comments and I realize that I have been narrow-minded and will try to allow myself to look at this question with new insights and views.