Galatian's salvation

[ladodgers6]

The law of Moses was always temporary having been “added” to the Covenant “until” the Messiah should come.



What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19

• It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come

By saying “until” the Holy Spirit is indicating that which was “added”, was temporary.





JLB

No Sir, the Law was not temporary. Which is why Christ did not abolished it but fulfilled it in the flesh.

 

[bbbbbbb]

She was deceived by the serpent. And I agree God created Adam & Eve upright and holy. But God also created Adam & Eve with a total free-will. To choose either to obey or disobey him. Free-Will after the fall is a entirely different matter.

Quite correct. Free will after the fall ceased to be free, without any limits.

 

[Soyeong]

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:14-15



JLB

Indeed, those are the verses in question. You recognized that the Bible refers to multiple different categories of law, so now you need to justify why those verses should be interpreted as referring to God’s law as opposed to one of the other categories of law, especially in light of the fact that all of God’s righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160) and the fact that the Greek word “dogma” refers to something other than God’s law in all of the other places that it is used by the Bible.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Indeed, those are the verses in question. You recognized that the Bible refers to multiple different categories of law, so now you need to justify why those verses should be interpreted as referring to God’s law as opposed to one of the other categories of law, especially in light of the fact that all of God’s righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160) and the fact that the Greek word “dogma” refers to something other than God’s law in all of the other places that it is used by the Bible.

Curiously, the Bible itself is strangely vague concerning various categories of the Law. Thus, Christian theologians have had to devise their own classifications for the Law. As a result we have things such as, "the ceremonial law", "the dietary law", "the moral law", etc., etc. These, unfortunately, are not neat and tidy, but really quite fuzzy with many overlapping commandments.

 

[Soyeong]

Curiously, the Bible itself is strangely vague concerning various categories of the Law. Thus, Christian theologians have had to devise their own classifications for the Law. As a result we have things such as, "the ceremonial law", "the dietary law", "the moral law", etc., etc. These, unfortunately, are not neat and tidy, but really quite fuzzy with many overlapping commandments.

People are free to create whatever subcategories of law that they want and decide for themselves which laws they think best fit into those subcategories, such as categorizing God’s laws based on which parts of the body are most commonly used to obey/disobey them, but they should be careful not to interpret the authors of Bible as referring to something that they just created.

For example, the subcategory of moral law implies that the laws that are not in that subcategory are moral to disobey. However, the Bible gives no basis for distinguishing between which of God’s laws are moral to disobey and there is not a single example where disobedience to any of God’s laws was considered by the Bible to be moral. Rather morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of His laws are inherently moral laws. For someone to claim that one of God’s laws is not a moral law is for them to claim that God was morally wrong to have command it and to claim that they have greater moral knowledge than God.

The Bible does use subcategories of law, such as mishpatim and chukim, but the subcategories that God’s laws should be divided into is a different issue than categories of law other than God’s law, such as the law of sin or the law that Ephesians 2:14-15 is referring to.

 

[bbbbbbb]

People are free to create whatever subcategories of law that they want and decide for themselves which laws they think best fit into those subcategories, such as categorizing God’s laws based on which parts of the body are most commonly used to obey/disobey them, but they should be careful not to interpret the authors of Bible as referring to something that they just created.

For example, the subcategory of moral law implies that the laws that are not in that subcategory are moral to disobey. However, the Bible gives no basis for distinguishing between which of God’s laws are moral to disobey and there is not a single example where disobedience to any of God’s laws was considered by the Bible to be moral. Rather morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of His laws are inherently moral laws. For someone to claim that one of God’s laws is not a moral law is for them to claim that God was morally wrong to have command it and to claim that they have greater moral knowledge than God.

The Bible does use subcategories of law, such as mishpatim and chukim, but the subcategories that God’s laws should be divided into is a different issue than categories of law other than God’s law, such as the law of sin or the law that Ephesians 2:14-15 is referring to.

Quite true. Thank you.

 

[HIM]

Well, I hold to what Paul preaches, which is, that we are imputed or credited with the Righteousness of Christ, and my sin is imputed to Christ. This is called the sweet exchange. And it is how God can be the Just and the Justifier!

2 Cor. 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

1 Cor. 1:30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

As I shared with you before, friend, that the Gospel is not a to do list or DIY project, but an announcement of what God in Christ accomplished for sinners! And it's what Christ did outside of us over 2000 years ago in time and history; who was born under the Law in the flesh to condemn sin in the flesh; he came not to abolish the Law but to fulfill for us; lived a righteous obedient life to God by keeping the commandments and fulfilling his Father's will. There is nothing worthy in us to earn any favor from God, this is the devil's deception and tries to pervert the truth of who we are and who Christ is and what he has done for the ungodly!

No flesh Paul's says will be justified through the Law, only threats remain for sinners! The curse of it keeps us condemned because of sin. Now remember we are discussing Justification not Sanctification. The Law says do, the Gospel has done!
​

I like the passage where Christ said to be perfect as God is perfect. Tell what sinner or believer can say that about their own works? Because even the works of believers are tainted with sin. So how can we be perfect as God is perfect? Answer is only found in Christ Alone through Faith Alone apart from works of the Law.

If we believed into Christ then we are in Christ alone and He in us. And the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith OF the Son of God who gave Himself for us. Living through Christ and His faith; the way He believed we are made righteous, But if we are found sinners while we are seeking to be made righteous, justified is Christ the minister of sin since we now have Him in us and we in Him? God forbid! How shall we who are dead to sin live any longer therein. If I build, sin again after it has been destroyed, because the old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin be destroyed I make myself a transgressor. We now live in the flesh through the Faith OF the Son of God, For it is written, the Just shall live by His Faith not through the flesh and it's works. So let not the things of the flesh be once named among you. Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. So we can not do the things that we would.



Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed into Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

[HIM]

However it is also mentioned in Genesis 2 when we were still one with God. At that point no law was required because we were one with God. being made IN His image and likeness. The Law is for sinners. And at that time there were none. Adam and Eve just did what came naturally to them being made in God's image and likeness.

Adam and Eve were created in the image of God, therefore that were pure.

It wasn’t until Satan defiled Eve with his ”weakness” that caused her to disobey God, the way Lucifer did.



She then believed the lie, because she was weakened by Satan.







JLB

She was deceived by the serpent. And I agree God created Adam & Eve upright and holy. But God also created Adam & Eve with a total free-will. To choose either to obey or disobey him. Free-Will after the fall is a entirely different matter.

Adam and Eve were created in the image of God, therefore they were pure because they were living in and through God. For in Him we are to live move and have are being. (Acts 17) Stepping out from His Spirit causes death. In that day dying we as they shall surely die. For all have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.

 

[ladodgers6]

If we believed into Christ then we are in Christ alone and He in us. And the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith OF the Son of God who gave Himself for us. Living through Christ and His faith; the way He believed we are made righteous, But if we are found sinners while we are seeking to be made righteous, justified is Christ the minister of sin since we now have Him in us and we in Him? God forbid! How shall we who are dead to sin live any longer therein. If I build, sin again after it has been destroyed, because the old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin be destroyed I make myself a transgressor. We now live in the flesh through the Faith OF the Son of God, For it is written, the Just shall live by His Faith not through the flesh and it's works. So let not the things of the flesh be once named among you. Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. So we can not do the things that we would.



Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed into Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Again you are conflating sanctification and Justification. A sinner is not justified through Sanctification, relying on something inside of him to find favor with God. The "UNGODLY" are justified in Christ Alone through Faith Alone apart from works of the Law. From this justification in Christ Alone flows the works, fruits, sanctification of the believer. And the only place a believers relies is always in Christ and his merits, birth, life, death and resurrection.

Romans 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works.

But how can God count righteousness apart from works? This is the question you should be asking yourself. How can God justify the ungodly? Answer because of Christ and his merits that are credited, given, imputed to the ungodly and received through Faith Alone! The ungodly are clothed in the righteousness of Christ's robe. Christ's perfect flawless righteousness and sanctification is given freely as a gift through the proclamation of the Gospel. They are earned by us, nor could we never try to reach such commands. It's like trying to climb Everest without rope, gear, food, oxygen, or clothes, mission impossible! Rather Paul says to the one who does not work, BUT believes in him who justifies the 'UNGODLY', he doesn't say godly, their Faith is counted as righteous. Meaning they receive Christ and his righteousness as theirs, as a free gift.



Isaiah 61: 10 I will rejoice greatly in the LORD, my soul will exult in my God; for He has clothed me with garments of salvation and wrapped me in a robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom wears a priestly headdress, as a bride adorns himself with her jewels.


Phil 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness from the law, but that which is through Faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith.


Romans 5:17 For is, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the GIFT of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ!

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of Law, to bring righteousness to everyone who believes.

This is why Paul always makes a juxtaposition between Law & Promise; Law & Gospel. One commands the other gives through a promise. A imperative (command) Indicative (Promise). To understand Scripture one must understand that there are Law passages and Gospel passages. If one mixes these into one or read Law passages as gospel passage and vice versa, then you have another gospel, which is no Gospel for the ungodly!​

 

[ladodgers6]

Indeed, I have read your posts, which is why I was able to discuss why I disagreed with them, though I am not certain if you have read my posts because I have repeatedly spoken against earning our justification by our obedience and about that being a complete misunderstanding of the goal of why we should obey God's law.

Okay great! Explain for me how is a sinner justified before a Holy God?

 

[Soyeong]

Okay great! Explain for me how is a sinner justified before a Holy God?

While the one and only way that there has ever been to become justified before a Holy God is through faith, our justification does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:27-31), so there is a connection between justification through faith and choosing to be a doer God's law. Likewise, in Roman 2:13, only the doers of the law will be justified, so again there is a connection between justification by faith and choosing to be a doer of God's law. There are many reasons why someone could choose to obey God's law, some of which are correct such as faith and love while others are incorrect such as in order to earn a wage or in order to look pious to our neighbor. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, in Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him, and there are many verses like these that speak in favor of our justification/righteousness/salvation/eternal life requiring us to choose to be doers of the law while there are many other verses that speak against those things requiring us to obey God for incorrect reasons that should not be mistaken as speaking against the correct reasons.

 

[ladodgers6]

While the one and only way that there has ever been to become justified before a Holy God is through faith, our justification does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:27-31), so there is a connection between justification through faith and choosing to be a doer God's law. Likewise, in Roman 2:13, only the doers of the law will be justified, so again there is a connection between justification by faith and choosing to be a doer of God's law. There are many reasons why someone could choose to obey God's law, some of which are correct such as faith and love while others are incorrect such as in order to earn a wage or in order to look pious to our neighbor. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, in Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him, and there are many verses like these that speak in favor of our justification/righteousness/salvation/eternal life requiring us to choose to be doers of the law while there are many other verses that speak against those things requiring us to obey God for incorrect reasons that should not be mistaken as speaking against the correct reasons.

Okay, sorry Soyeong but these comments only mudding the waters. You may say that a person is not justified through the Law, but you certainly implied it. I don't know how many times I have shared with you that you view of Law passages are partially correct. But the Law passages do not changed in its requirements it commands. It is the doers of the Law that will be justified, this we agree upon, but what condemned sinner under the curse of the Law, can fulfill it? This is what Paul is pointing out to sinners! When preaching to sinners, you need to preach both Law and Gospel, why, because sinners need to know in what condition they are in before a Holy God! Law preaching when preached correctly will drive sinners to Christ a Redeemer who saves sinners! Law preaching must bring terror to the souls of the dammed, if not then you have not preached it correctly. Sinners will know they are not the doers of God's Law, and no doers will enter the kingdom of God! I hope you agree with what I wrote so far!

Lawlessness brings only threats form the Law of God! So what is a sinner to do or stand? After reading your posts one thing I have noticed is that your Gospel is not free, it demands works, so the sinner thinks by doing works they can find favor from God in doing so. This is not the Gospel but Law. This is what Paul condemned, and stated this is not a Gospel. The Gospel is an announcement of who Christ is and what he has done for sinners! Christ came to be the doers of the Law for sinners. He fulfilled in the flesh. He merits a kingdom and a people whom the Father gave to him. Here's the thing Soyeong, the Gospel gives, credits, imputes to sinners who believe and trust God Christ's righteousness and a gift; FREE!

This is righteousness given to us is now ours, we are wrapped or clothed in the righteousness of Christ! This is the crux of the Gospel without this God cannot be the Just and Justifier. Without this nothing else matter because nobody will be saved. This is Christ's salvific work that he accomplished for God's people.


Isaiah 61:10I will greatly rejoice in the LORD; my soul shall exult in my God, for he has clothed me with the garments of salvation; he has covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decks himself like a priest with a beautiful headdress, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

Phil. 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.
​

Romans 5:17 For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

This is why Paul said that the Gospel is a free gift and good news for the ungodly. And this is the only way God can be the Just and Justifier by providing a substitute to take our place as take our punishment, and we are imputed with the righteousness of Christ which is received through Faith Alone apart form works.

This is how a sinner is justified before a Holy God!

By Grace Alone in Christ Alone through Faith Alone!

 

[HIM]

Again you are conflating sanctification and Justification.​

No. that is what Galatians says. Address it within it's context. You haven't done that. And please don't respond to this part of the post stating you have. Please deal with the scripture given within the context of the passages shared. PAUL IS NOT USING THE SAME LANGUAGE AS HE DOES IN ROMANS, Thanks.
And the Greek word that is translated justified in Galatians is used in relation to righteousness in the following verses in the LXX. And the word it is translated from is צָדַק (tsâdaq). It's definition is found below along with the Greek word translated justified in Galatians

Gen 38:26 And Judah acknowledged them, and said, She hath been more righteous than I; because that I gave her not to Shelah my son. And he knew her again no more.

Ps 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

צָדַק
tsâdaq
BDB Definition:
1) to be just, be righteous
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to have a just cause, be in the right
1a2) to be justified
1a3) to be just (of God)
1a4) to be just, be righteous (in conduct and character)

A sinner is not justified through Sanctification, relying on something inside of him to find favor with God.​

The something inside of them is God through Christ. Not sure how you missed that.

And Galatian's justified, being made righteous is being spoken in the subjunctive mood. The mood of possibilities not the indicative, as a done deal, a fact.
As you are probably aware this is shown by the use of the word might in verse 16, in the clause "might be justified (made righteous)". Then in verse 17 it says, 'while we seek to be justified'. This is being spoken in the Infinitive mood. This is brought out by the use of the words "to be". This shows us here in Galatians that justified, being made righteous is not a done deal it is a process. This justification (being made righteous) is not of ourselves but out of the faith of Christ and can only be done through us believing INTO Christ as verse 16 states. For we who have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ as verse 3:27 states and Romans 6. And we are not children of God or Justified by OUR faith but by the faith of Christ which we partake of in Christ having put Him on. Because we have His spirit as verse 3:2 states. And this is stated in relation to verse 2:20 where it says we are dead but live. Yet NOT US but Christ Jesus. And the LIFE WE now LIVE is BY THE FAITH OF the Son of God who gave himself. If we are living by the faith of Christ we are living by His spirit. For In Him and He in us we are seeking to be justified, made righteous.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by (OUT) the works of the law, but by (THROUGH) the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in (INTO) Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by (OUT OF) the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by (THROUGH) the faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Romans 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works.

But how can God count righteousness apart from works? This is the question you should be asking yourself. How can God justify the ungodly? Answer because of Christ and his merits that are credited, given, imputed to the ungodly and received through Faith Alone! The ungodly are clothed in the righteousness of Christ's robe. Christ's perfect flawless righteousness and sanctification is given freely as a gift through the proclamation of the Gospel. They are earned by us, nor could we never try to reach such commands. It's like trying to climb Everest without rope, gear, food, oxygen, or clothes, mission impossible! Rather Paul says to the one who does not work, BUT believes in him who justifies the 'UNGODLY', he doesn't say godly, their Faith is counted as righteous. Meaning they receive Christ and his righteousness as theirs, as a free gift.



Isaiah 61: 10 I will rejoice greatly in the LORD, my soul will exult in my God; for He has clothed me with garments of salvation and wrapped me in a robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom wears a priestly headdress, as a bride adorns himself with her jewels.


Phil 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness from the law, but that which is through Faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith.


Romans 5:17 For is, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive an abundance of grace and of the GIFT of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ!

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of Law, to bring righteousness to everyone who believes.​

You are all over the place trying to prove your point. Please stick to one letter or book. I can't address all this it would take me even more hours which I do not have and will not expend right now. If we get through Galatians then we can move to Romans and Ephesians.

 

[JLB777]

She was deceived by the serpent. And I agree God created Adam & Eve upright and holy. But God also created Adam & Eve with a total free-will. To choose either to obey or disobey him. Free-Will after the fall is a entirely different matter.

Agreed.

 

[JLB777]

No Sir, the Law was not temporary. Which is why Christ did not abolished it but fulfilled it in the flesh.

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19


The law was added until the Seed, (the Messiah), should come.


Has the Messiah come?

Did the Messiah fulfill the law?




JLB

 

[JLB777]

You recognized that the Bible refers to multiple different categories of law,

Please post the scriptures that say there are different categories of the law of Moses?

 

[JLB777]

However it is also mentioned in Genesis 2 when we were still one with God.

Who is ”we”?


Please post the scriptures in Genesis 2 that say we are one with God.

 

[Soyeong]

Please post the scriptures that say there are different categories of the law of Moses?

For different categories of law other than the Law of Moses, the are examples like Romans 3:27, where Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, in Romans 3:31 and Galatians 3:10-11, where he contrasted a law our faith upholds with a law that is not of faith, and in Romans 7:22-23, he contrasted a law that he delighted in obeying with a law that held him captive, in Romans 7:25-8:2, he contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit of Life with the law of sin and death. For different categories of law within the Law of Moses, the Bible uses terms like "mishapatim" and "chukim".

 

[Soyeong]

Okay, sorry Soyeong but these comments only mudding the waters. You may say that a person is not justified through the Law, but you certainly implied it.​

Faith can be expressed both as being a doer of the law and being justified while being a doers of the law does not earn being justified. Moreover, because faith, being a doer of the law, and being justified are linked, so all those who has one of them also has the others while all those who are missing any of them are also missing the others, which means that all those who have faith are also doers of the law and are justified, all those who are doers of the law also have faith and are justified, and all those are justified also have faith and are doers of the law, while all those who do not have faith, are not doers of the law, or are not justified also are not the other two. As such, I can say thinks like only doers of the law will be justified (Romana 2:13) while also denying that we are we can earn our justification by being a doer of the law (Romans 4:1-5), or say that we justified by faith, we do not earn our justification by being a doer of the law, and our faith does not abolish our need to be a doer of the law, but rather the same faith by which we are justified is also expressed by being a doer of the law (Romans 3:28-31). So our justification does require us to choose to be doers of the law, but for a reason other than in order to earn it.

I don't know how many times I have shared with you that you view of Law passages are partially correct.​

You can keep sharing your view of the law, but as long as I continue to support what I say with Scripture while you continue to say things that are unsupported by Scripture, then what you say does not have any weight.

But the Law passages do not changed in its requirements it commands. It is the doers of the Law that will be justified, this we agree upon, but what condemned sinner under the curse of the Law, can fulfill it? This is what Paul is pointing out to sinners! When preaching to sinners, you need to preach both Law and Gospel, why, because sinners need to know in what condition they are in before a Holy God! Law preaching when preached correctly will drive sinners to Christ a Redeemer who saves sinners! Law preaching must bring terror to the souls of the dammed, if not then you have not preached it correctly. Sinners will know they are not the doers of God's Law, and no doers will enter the kingdom of God! I hope you agree with what I wrote so far!​

In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, God's law is not too difficult to obey and obedience brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So all of those who are chasing after other gods/who are continuing to live in sin by choosing not to obey God's law/who are under the curse of the law have the choice to instead repent by choosing life/serving the God of Israel/fulfill His law by obeying it/entering the Kingdom of God/being under the blessing of the law.

In Matthew 4:15-23, the Gospel that Jesus taught called for people to obey the Mosaic Law, and if someone has the same view of the Mosaic Law as the one expressed in the Psalms, then they will consider that to be very Good News. Sin is living in transgression of the Mosaic Law, so Christ saves us from sin by leading us to live in obedience to it. Nowhere does the Bible say that law preaching must bring terror to the souls of the damned in order to be done correctly, so that is something that you've made up. For example someone can correctly teach how to obey the command to love our neighbor by helping the poor without brining terror to anyone.

Lawlessness brings only threats form the Law of God! So what is a sinner to do or stand? After reading your posts one thing I have noticed is that your Gospel is not free, it demands works, so the sinner thinks by doing works they can find favor from God in doing so. This is not the Gospel but Law. This is what Paul condemned, and stated this is not a Gospel. The Gospel is an announcement of who Christ is and what he has done for sinners! Christ came to be the doers of the Law for sinners. He fulfilled in the flesh. He merits a kingdom and a people whom the Father gave to him. Here's the thing Soyeong, the Gospel gives, credits, imputes to sinners who believe and trust God Christ's righteousness and a gift; FREE!​

Nowhere does the Bible say that lawlessness brings only threats from the Law of God, so again that is something that you have made up. In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, and in in John 8:31-36, it is sin in transgression of the Mosaic Law that puts us in bondage while it is the truth that sets us free, so my Gospel is freedom while your gospel is bondage to lawlessness and opposed to truth. Obedience to the Mosaic Law has never been about trying to earn favor with Him so that He owes us something in return. In Romana 15:18-19, Paul fulfilled the Gospel by bringing Gentiles in obedience to God's law in word and in deed. The Mosaic Law is God's word and Christ is God's word made flesh, so calling for people to obey it in accordance with spreading the Gospel is the announcement of who Christ is and what he has done for us. Christ experienced his righteousness by by setting an example of walking in obedience to the Mosaic Law so us getting to experience righteousness by following his example is the free gift of Christ's righteousness and the way to believe in his righteousness.

This is righteousness given to us is now ours, we are wrapped or clothed in the righteousness of Christ! This is the crux of the Gospel without this God cannot be the Just and Justifier. Without this nothing else matter because nobody will be saved. This is Christ's salvific work that he accomplished for God's people.​

God graciously teaching us how to act in accordance with His righteousness through giving us to gift of His law is the way that His righteousness is given to us.

Isaiah 61:10I will greatly rejoice in the LORD; my soul shall exult in my God, for he has clothed me with the garments of salvation; he has covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decks himself like a priest with a beautiful headdress, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.​

Revelation 19:7-8 Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; 8 it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”— for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.

The above verses are connected to Isaiah 61:10 in regard to giving clothes to the bride, which means that the garment of salvation/robe of righteousness that is given as a gift to the bride is again itself the righteous deeds of the saints.

Phil. 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith.
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Romans 5:17 For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

Again I agree that we do not earn our righteousness as the result of obeying God's law, though the gift of righteousness is the gift of experiencing God's righteousness by obeying it.

This is why Paul said that the Gospel is a free gift and good news for the ungodly. And this is the only way God can be the Just and Justifier by providing a substitute to take our place as take our punishment, and we are imputed with the righteousness of Christ which is received through Faith Alone apart form works.

This is how a sinner is justified before a Holy God!

By Grace Alone in Christ Alone through Faith Alone!

In Psalms 119:29, God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey the Mosaic Law, in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (which was in obedience to the Mosaic Law), and in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law, yet for some strange reason you consider justification by by grace alone in Christ alone through faith alone to be referring to something other than obedience to the Mosaic Law alone. Christ is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to have faith in Christ alone, but not have faith in God's word alone.

 

[ladodgers6]

No. that is what Galatians says. Address it within it's context. You haven't done that. And please don't respond to this part of the post stating you have. Please deal with the scripture given within the context of the passages shared. PAUL IS NOT USING THE SAME LANGUAGE AS HE DOES IN ROMANS, Thanks.

It is exactly what Paul is saying. Paul makes juxtaposition throughout his letters and epistles between Law & Gospel; Curses & Blessings; Death & Life; Condemnation & Justification; Adam & Christ; Imperatives & Indicatives; Threats & Promises. Furthermore, one cannot decide the meaning of redemption apart from a sound doctrine of creation and the fall. I'll have to address your post in sections because there's a lot to present.

Look when preaching to people both Law & Gospel must be preached together. The Law must be presented full tilt in that all who do not keep the full book of the Law is under a curse. This curse brings with it, condemnation and death. But how can a sinner already condemned and under a curse be a doer of the Law? What Paul is doing here is exposing people's sin, and the consequences of sin before a Holy God! But the Law also points to a Savior; a redeemer of sinners! When despair and terror sit in on the condemned soul and heart, then the Gospel is given. The Gospel announces what God in Christ accomplished for sinners. And this promise and good news is free; a gift, not earn! This is the juxtaposition Paul makes in both Romans and Galatians. That the inheritance is through a Promise, not through something within me that is worthy of this Promise!

Conflating Justification with Sanctification is not the Gospel that Paul preached. The fruits of our redemption are not the cause of it but the result of it. By the way all of this is by Grace Alone anyway. God doesn't leave us halfway stranded somewhere in the high desert to fin for ourselves, saying your on your own now.

God deals with his creation through Covenants. Adam breached the Covenant in the Garden Temple, and brought upon us all, condemnation, death, curses and exile from God! But God made another Covenant with Adam, Abraham, David, and Christ. Through this Covenant of Grace God himself will do what we could not do!
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God’s Covenant with Abram​

Genesis 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision: “Fear not, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great.” 2 But Abram said, “O Lord GOD, what will you give me, for I continue childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?” 3 And Abram said, “Behold, you have given me no offspring, and a member of my household will be my heir.” 4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him: “This man shall not be your heir; your very own son shall be your heir.” 5 And he brought him outside and said, “Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.” 6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

Romans 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
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7“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
8blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”​

David and Paul speak of those who God counts righteous apart from works. But how so? Is the question we should be asking. Only those who obey the Law are righteous men. But Paul explicitly states that no flesh will be justified through the Law. And he continues saying that all who do not abide by the whole book of the Law are under a curse!

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But how can God count Abram righteous?

Jeremiah 31:33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. The Gospel is the announcement of God doing in Christ for his people. It's a Promise that He Will do and has done in his Son! Only Christ can open the ancient doors once closed shut by the One Act of disobedience. And only the One Act of Obedience can give us the Free Gift of Righteousness.

Ezekiel 36:25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

Isaiah 61:10I will greatly rejoice in the LORD; my soul shall exult in my God, for he has clothed me with the garments of salvation; he has covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decks himself like a priest with a beautiful headdress, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

Romans 5:17 For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

So how can God count our faith as righteousness? Because it was earned and freely given to us through a Promise; a Covenant; an Oath by God in Christ to save sinners from their sins, and clothed in the righteous robe of Christ's righteousness! This sir is the free gift that Paul is speaking about both in Romans & Galatians! The inheritance comes through a Promise not the Law! It is by the Sheer Grace and Mercy of God that saves sinners! Not something supposedly found in men full of dead men bones!​