Fundamentalism and global warming denial correlation

[DogmaHunter]

Hi there,

Long time since I've started a thread myself.

I notice a very solid correlation between denial of the science of climate change and belief in theism.

"very solid", since it seems that the more fundamentalist the theist, the stronger the opposition to climate change sciences.

In case of Big bang theory and Evolution, I get how the corrolation comes about. Religious books, when taken literally, are in direct contradiction with the natural sciences. So it makes "sense" (in some messed up way) that the more radical the theist, the stronger he/she will oppose science that is in direct contradiction with their a priori faith-based beliefs.

However, with climate change, it's not that clear to me that there is direct contradiction.

The best I can come up with to explain this correlation is the idea that a fundie will most likely consider it upto "god's plan" to destroy the world or alike. In such a way that they believe it should be "impossible" for humans to do so much damage to the environment / atmosphere / climate that it will actually have permanent and/or otherwise disastrous effects in the long run.

I don't think that "they are anti-science" is good enough. Clearly, there is quite some science that they DO accept. Generally, fundies are rather picky about what they accept and whatnot.

I don't think a fundie will, for example, deny germ theory. I'm guessing most will agree that deseases like the flu etc are caused by micro-organisms.
So they pick what to deny and whatnot based on their a priori theistic beliefs. If it contradicts, then they assume that the science must be incorrect.

So in this thread, I'ld like your opinion on this (no matter who you are or what you believe).

How do you explain the solid correlation between levels of religiosity and denial of climate sciences?

 

[sfs]

I'd want to see data on the correlation, especially on how it differs between countries, but it's plausible that it's there. In the US, I think, climate change belief/denial has become a tribal marker, and tribal identification is very strong here right now. The two largest tribes competing for loyalty are the Real Americans with Values and the Thoughtful People with a Conscience (as the tribes think of themselves), also known as the Racist Rednecks and the Dirty Hippies (as the tribes think of each other). Once an issue becomes a matter of tribal identification -- be it a scientific, a moral or a public policy question -- members of the tribe tend to adopt it wholesale. This creates strong correlations between apparently unrelated, and sometimes incongruous, beliefs.

 

[AV1611VET]

How do you explain the solid correlation between levels of religiosity and denial of climate sciences?

I'm not sure what you're asking here, but for the record, God can intervene sporadically with the weather.

Psalm 83:15 So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.

And as far as global warming is concerned:

Isaiah 5:14a Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure:

I think, according to ... is it Boyle's Law? ... that as mass increases, volume must increase as well to keep the temperature the same.

If this is true, then as Hell enlarges, its borders would get closer to the surface of the earth (since the earth's diameter doesn't increase to compensate).

People like to blame the sun for global warming, when in fact, they are looking in the wrong direction.

In a nutshell, the temperature of the earth isn't increasing, the temperature of its surface is.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I'd want to see data on the correlation, especially on how it differs between countries, but it's plausible that it's there.

I'm sorry, you are correct... I should have nuanced that a bit more.

I'm not aware of any data that shows this. And I didn't put in any effort to see if this data is out there either. It's something I've noticed myself. It's also quite clear on this forum.

The more fundamentalist the poster is, the more opposed he/she seems to be to the science involved in climate change.
I'm not aware of any atheist here who denies global warming.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'd want to see data on the correlation, especially on how it differs between countries, but it's plausible that it's there. In the US, I think, climate change belief/denial has become a tribal marker, and tribal identification is very strong here right now. The two largest tribes competing for loyalty are the Real Americans with Values and the Thoughtful People with a Conscience (as the tribes think of themselves), also known as the Racist Rednecks and the Dirty Hippies (as the tribes think of each other). Once an issue becomes a matter of tribal identification -- be it a scientific, a moral or a public policy question -- members of the tribe tend to adopt it wholesale. This creates strong correlations between apparently unrelated, and sometimes incongruous, beliefs.

-- What?

 

[DogmaHunter]

I'm not sure what you're asking here, but for the record, God can intervene sporadically with the weather.

Psalm 83:15 So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.

And as far as global warming is concerned:

Isaiah 5:14a Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure:

I think, according to ... is it Boyle's Law? ... that as mass increases, volume must increase as well to keep the temperature the same.

If this is true, then as Hell enlarges, its borders would get closer to the surface of the earth (since the earth's diameter doesn't increase to compensate).

People like to blame the sun for global warming, when in fact, they are looking in the wrong direction.

In a nutshell, the temperature of the earth isn't increasing, the temperature of its surface is.

Did you just claim that "hell" is located beneath the earth's crust and that the planet is heating up because the crust is becoming thinner?

You never cease to amaze me, dude.
Every time when I think that it couldn't get any crazier, you go ahead and post something like this.

It's mindboggling.

But whatever. Thanks for the input. I guess.

 

[AV1611VET]

Did you just claim that "hell" is located beneath the earth's crust and that the planet is heating up because the crust is becoming thinner?

Didn't I just go through this indepth with someone?

QV please: Evolution is a religion, but Christianity is not?

And where did I say the crust was becoming thinner?

 

[[serious]]

I'd want to see data on the correlation, especially on how it differs between countries, but it's plausible that it's there. In the US, I think, climate change belief/denial has become a tribal marker, and tribal identification is very strong here right now. The two largest tribes competing for loyalty are the Real Americans with Values and the Thoughtful People with a Conscience (as the tribes think of themselves), also known as the Racist Rednecks and the Dirty Hippies (as the tribes think of each other). Once an issue becomes a matter of tribal identification -- be it a scientific, a moral or a public policy question -- members of the tribe tend to adopt it wholesale. This creates strong correlations between apparently unrelated, and sometimes incongruous, beliefs.

http://www.pewforum.org/2009/04/16/religious-groups-views-on-global-warming/

I'd guess that it came about due to the alliance within the republican party of the religious right and corporate interests. While the religious side got the corporate interests to buy in to their values issues, influence washed the other way too.

 

[DogmaHunter]

And where did I say the crust was becoming thinner?

It's implied in this:

If this is true, then as Hell enlarges, its borders would get closer to the surface of the earth (since the earth's diameter doesn't increase to compensate).

If you have a sphere with an object within it and the object grows bigger while the diameter of the sphere remains intact, then the space between the object and the surface of the sphere grows thinner.

 

[sfs]

-- What?

Restated: fundamentalists in the US are mostly political conservatives. Political conservatives don't like liberals. Liberals think global warming is a problem. Therefore fundamentalists tend to reject global warming as a problem because they reject anything liberals believe.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's implied in this:



If you have a sphere with an object within it and the object grows bigger while the diameter of the sphere remains intact, then the space between the object and the surface of the sphere grows thinner.

So?

I still don't see the implication.

If a 55-gallon barrel is in the middle of an acre of land bordered by a one-foot thick stone wall, and the barrel grows to a 60-gallon barrel, does that mean the stone wall is now 11.999 inches thick?

Suit yourself.

The more I'm quoted, the wronger the quoter is.

 

[AV1611VET]

.

 

[AV1611VET]

Restated: fundamentalists in the US are mostly political conservatives. Political conservatives don't like liberals. Liberals think global warming is a problem. Therefore fundamentalists tend to reject global warming as a problem because they reject anything liberals believe.

I'd like to leave politics out of this, but this isn't my thread.

 

[sfs]

I'd like to leave politics out of this, but this isn't my thread.

I don't think you can leave politics out. That's my point: political and religious affiliations are intertwined. But I don't want to introduce arguments about whose politics are right -- that's why I carefully phrased my original post to describe both sides identifying with their group. It's part of human nature to adopt many of the beliefs of our social group.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't think you can leave politics out. That's my point: political and religious affiliations are intertwined. But I don't want to introduce arguments about whose politics are right -- that's why I carefully phrased my original post to describe both sides identifying with their group. It's part of human nature to adopt many of the beliefs of our social group.

I don't get my doctrine from the board of elections.

 

[sfs]

I don't get my doctrine from the board of elections.

That's nice.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Restated: fundamentalists in the US are mostly political conservatives. Political conservatives don't like liberals. Liberals think global warming is a problem. Therefore fundamentalists tend to reject global warming as a problem because they reject anything liberals believe.

Interesting.

Kind of like how conservatives tend to be against public health and social security.

I alwas found that to be odd. Surely universal healthcare and social security is a very christian idea, if "to be christian" is indeed all about helping the sick and feeding the homeless etc....

 

[sfs]

Interesting.

Kind of like how conservatives tend to be against public health and social security.

I alwas found that to be odd. Surely universal healthcare and social security is a very christian idea, if "to be christian" is indeed all about helping the sick and feeding the homeless etc....

If you want this thread to turn into a political food fight, you're taking the right course here.

 

[AV1611VET]

If you want this thread to turn into a political food fight, you're taking the right course here.

I wonder if there's a political equivalent of Godwin's Law?

Maybe call it Perot's Law or something?

(And no, I didn't vote for H. Ross Perot.)

 

[Willtor]

I've been reading a lot of (admittedly, popular) articles about tribalism in ideas, lately. I can't immediately find the Ars Technica article I read about a year ago that talked about one such study...

As sfs says, this seems to be a political issue. Opposition to climate change and evolution tend to go along with conservatism, while opposition to vaccines tends to be a liberal thing. There isn't a 1:1 correlation, of course, but "fitting in" with one's tribe is an important pressure that motivates people to believe a thing because of (in some sense) another totally unrelated thing.