Full Preterism On The Last Trumpet

[random person]

 

[robycop3]

Wanna "win" the discussion & prove preterism correct? Simply present some **EVIDENCE** that Jesus has already returned.

 

[random person]

Wanna "win" the discussion & prove preterism correct? Simply present some **EVIDENCE** that Jesus has already returned.

Jesus didn't promise a visible and bodily return, in fact, He stated:

a ) His kingdom of not of this world.

b ) His kingdom will not come with physical observance

c ) That not all of the disciples would taste death before His return.

d ) That the 1st century generation would not pass away before ALL THINGS WERE FULFILLED.

What futurists are failing to realize is that Christ return would be in judgment against Israel for the blood shed of the prophets and the apostles. It would mark the official innaugeration of the New Covenant as the first covenant had to be destroyed first due to the Jewish persecution and to leave not one stone standing in Jerusalem so the Old Covenant would never be observed again and the Temple would never be rebuilt.

 

[robycop3]

Jesus didn't promise a visible and bodily return, in fact, He stated:

a ) His kingdom of not of this world.

b ) His kingdom will not come with physical observance

c ) That not all of the disciples would taste death before His return.

d ) That the 1st century generation would not pass away before ALL THINGS WERE FULFILLED.

What futurists are failing to realize is that Christ return would be in judgment against Israel for the blood shed of the prophets and the apostles. It would mark the official innaugeration of the New Covenant as the first covenant had to be destroyed first due to the Jewish persecution and to leave not one stone standing in Jerusalem so the Old Covenant would never be observed again and the Temple would never be rebuilt.

JESUS HIMSELF crushes these assertions in Matt. 24:29-30.

"HISTORY AND REALITY trump all preterist assertions."

 

[random person]

JESUS HIMSELF crushes these assertions in Matt. 24:29-30.

"HISTORY AND REALITY trump all preterist assertions."

Here is the definition of "opsontai":

: I see, look upon, experience, perceive, discern, beware.

HELPS Word-studies

3708 horáō – properly, see, often with metaphorical meaning: "to see with the mind" (i.e. spiritually see), i.e. perceive (with inward spiritual perception).

[The aorist form (eidon), is discussed at 1492 /eídō, "see." The future tense, and middle-passive form, are discussed under 3700 /optánomai, "see."]

http://biblehub.com/text/matthew/24-30.htm

http://biblehub.com/greek/3708.htm

Jesus did not state a bodily and visible return but rather that Israel would experience, discern, or perceive the judgment of Christ in the destruction of Israel and Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

 

[Chicken Little]

Jesus didn't promise a visible and bodily return, in fact, He stated:

a ) His kingdom of not of this world.

b ) His kingdom will not come with physical observance

c ) That not all of the disciples would taste death before His return.

d ) That the 1st century generation would not pass away before ALL THINGS WERE FULFILLED.

so according to you he is never coming back for real?

we are going to have to spiritually see him ? so was he was only spiritually here the first time ?

 

[random person]

so according to you he is never coming back for real?

His return was evidenced not by a physical and bodily return but in the judgment of God against Israel in A.D. 70 and the dissolution of the Old Covenant.

 

[robycop3]

His return was evidenced not by a physical and bodily return but in the judgment of God against Israel in A.D. 70 and the dissolution of the Old Covenant.

Jesus PLAINLY stated He WILL physically return, in Matt. 24:29-30, Rev. 1:7, & and Rev. 12:11-21.

 

[random person]

Jesus PLAINLY stated He WILL physically return, in Matt. 24:29-30, Rev. 1:7, & and Rev. 12:11-21.

Here is what the Greek says about the word "see":

3708.horaohor-ah'-o properly, to stare at (compare 3700), i.e. (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally); by extension, to attend to; by Hebraism, to experience; passively, to appear:--behold, perceive, see, take heed.

http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=greeklexicon&isindex=see+

1. 
   
   
   • to see with the eyes
   • to see with the mind, to perceive, know
   • to see, i.e. become acquainted with by experience, to experience
   • to see, to look to
     1. to take heed, beware
        
        
     2. to care for, pay heed to
   • I was seen, showed myself, appeared

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3708&t=KJV

Why do you futurists always ignore Matthew 24:34?

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till ALL these things be fulfilled.

Do you understand what Christ means by "this generation"? He is speaking about generation of His audience listening to Him at that present time on the Mount of Olives!

Do you understand what Christ means by "ALL"? The whole Olivet Discourse will be completely fulfilled before that generation passes.

 

[robycop3]

Here is what the Greek says about the word "see":

3708.horaohor-ah'-o properly, to stare at (compare 3700), i.e. (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally); by extension, to attend to; by Hebraism, to experience; passively, to appear:--behold, perceive, see, take heed.

http://www.eliyah.com/cgi-bin/strongs.cgi?file=greeklexicon&isindex=see+

1. 
   
   
   • to see with the eyes
   • to see with the mind, to perceive, know
   • to see, i.e. become acquainted with by experience, to experience
   • to see, to look to
     1. to take heed, beware
        
        
     2. to care for, pay heed to
   • I was seen, showed myself, appeared

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3708&t=KJV

Why do you futurists always ignore Matthew 24:34?

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till ALL these things be fulfilled.

Do you understand what Christ means by "this generation"? He is speaking about generation of His audience listening to Him at that present time on the Mount of Olives!

Do you understand what Christ means by "ALL"? The whole Olivet Discourse will be completely fulfilled before that generation passes.

We don't ignore that verse; we know it means 'the generation that sees those things'. Very obviously, it wasn't the generation alive when Jesus was here.

 

[random person]

We don't ignore that verse; we know it means 'the generation that sees those things'. Very obviously, it wasn't the generation alive when Jesus was here.

That is where you are wrong because multiple times Christ tells His disciples that some standing among them shall not taste death until they have seen the Christ coming in His Kingdom.

 

[robycop3]

That is where you are wrong because multiple times Christ tells His disciples that some standing among them shall not taste death until they have seen the Christ coming in His Kingdom.

And they did so...in His transfuguration shortly before His arrest.

 

[random person]

And they did so...in His transfuguration shortly before His arrest.

You better recheck Matthew 16:27-28; Luke 9:26-27; and Mark 8:38/Mark 9:1

Three things were to happen:

Christ would come back in the Glory of the Father in judgment (John 5:19,22,27).

Christ would come back in His Kingdom (Daniel 2:44-45; Daniel 7:13-14).

 

[robycop3]

You better recheck Matthew 16:27-28; Luke 9:26-27; and Mark 8:38/Mark 9:1

Three things were to happen:

Christ would come back in the Glory of the Father in judgment (John 5:19,22,27).

Christ would come back in His Kingdom (Daniel 2:44-45; Daniel 7:13-14).

But you can't account for that in history, can you?

 

[random person]

But you can't account for that in history, can you?

Sure you can.

The Matthew 23-24 is about the 1st Century destruction of Israel and Jerusalem. Matthew 23 tells you why, to avenge the blood of the prophets and the Apostles.

Also Daniel 2:44-45 explicitly states God would raise an everlasting Kingdom during the reign of the kings of the four beasts (the fourth beast is Rome). So before Rome actually fell, God HAS to raise an everlasting kingdom, and meet this deadline. God beat that deadline in Dan. 2:44-45 in A.D. 30-33.

In Daniel 7:13-14 explicitly states that the Son of Man will ascend up to the heaven, and be presented before the Ancient of Days, and will be given an everlasting Kingdom. When did the Son of Man ascend up to heaven and given an everlasting Kingdom? See Acts 1. In A.D. 30-33.

 

[robycop3]

Sure you can.

The Matthew 23-24 is about the 1st Century destruction of Israel and Jerusalem. Matthew 23 tells you why, to avenge the blood of the prophets and the Apostles.

Also Daniel 2:44-45 explicitly states God would raise an everlasting Kingdom during the reign of the kings of the four beasts (the fourth beast is Rome). So before Rome actually fell, God HAS to raise an everlasting kingdom, and meet this deadline. God beat that deadline in Dan. 2:44-45 in A.D. 30-33.

In Daniel 7:13-14 explicitly states that the Son of Man will ascend up to the heaven, and be presented before the Ancient of Days, and will be given an everlasting Kingdom. When did the Son of Man ascend up to heaven and given an everlasting Kingdom? See Acts 1. In A.D. 30-33.

MMRRPP1 WRONG!

The KOG was already established when Jesus instituted the New Covenant & made the first Christians. But it wasn't time for Him to physically rule it yet.

And NO, Jesus has NOT physically returned yet! proof? The world continues on, unchanged.

 

[random person]

MMRRPP1 WRONG!

The KOG was already established when Jesus instituted the New Covenant & made the first Christians. But it wasn't time for Him to physically rule it yet.

And NO, Jesus has NOT physically returned yet! proof? The world continues on, unchanged.

What do you think Jesus meant when He said "His Kingdom is not of this world"?

And that His Kingdom comes not with observation?

 

[robycop3]

What do you think Jesus meant when He said "His Kingdom is not of this world"?

And that His Kingdom comes not with observation?

He meant EXACTLY THAT. But Scripture sez He is coming to put all govts. under His heel and rule all nations from Jerusalem for 1K years.

 

[parousia70]

He meant EXACTLY THAT. But Scripture sez He is coming to put all govts. under His heel and rule all nations from Jerusalem for 1K years.

Please provide chapter and verse. Anytime someone says "Scripture sez X" without citing the chapter and verse of where exactly "scripture sezit", I get suspicious....

 

[robycop3]

Please provide chapter and verse. Anytime someone says "Scripture sez X" without citing the chapter and verse of where exactly "scripture sezit", I get suspicious....

EASY!

Rev. 19:

15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

If you knew the bible better, you woulda known this already. I suggest you get rid of your Alcazar material and concentrate on GOD'S word insteada Alcazar's word.