Frustration With People in Church

everbecoming2007

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This is somewhat of a rant since the steps I am taking to deal with it are to my knowledge the only thing I can do.

There are some events in church I already do not involve myself in. I do not go to meetings dealing with business or events going on in the parish because after going to one of them I am disgusted with how some of the people in my parish with the most influence behave, and I do not appreciate racist slurs hurled around or disrupting meetings with protests when representatives of the diocese are present and speaking and other such ridiculous behavior. It is unbelievable the things people will say and do, and much of it is not even political, but pure hatred and racism as is very common in the rural south of the United States. I have not lost much by avoiding such meetings because I am not too interested in them to begin with, but it still bothers me that some of these people are the ones with the most power in the parish and filling up the vestry.

The priest is still saying completely inappropriate things from the pulpit. It is unbelievable. There are some days I simply cannot believe what I am hearing. I have planned to make a meeting with him to speak about it, although I am nervous. I seem to have already greatly offended him for expressing a different viewpoint when he seems to be expressing erroneous views of what trinitarian theology entails or when he believes that during his earthly life Jesus was omniscient and only pretended to take on natural human limitations. I did not even directly correct him. In fact he asked my opinion, and I told him.

I am very concerned about the sorts of statements being made about Muslims and Jews, especially when combined with rhetoric about guns sometimes being the only way to solve our problems. I am not sure at this point I should risk speaking to him directly and should instead simply write the bishop.

There is not much I can do about these sermons unless I just want to stop going to church. I became a part of this parish because it was relatively sane compared to all my other options, but I am starting to wonder what is happening to this place. Our previous priest had his problems, but he did not say things like this.

I have managed to deal with these above issues for some time, but I am having personal problems with a particular member who will simply not leave me alone. I am considering withdrawing from the one discussion group I am a part of simply to avoid this person. (S)he is very wealthy and has all these plans for my life now that I have obtained a degree, and they are all very expensive or of no interest to me. I have been pressured to travel out of state multiple times (for $1000s!) to consider becoming a Catholic monk (even though I am an Anglican), even to give up my job and home to go and live with them! Or to pay thousands of dollars to get training for a job I am not interested in and not at all sure I would be competent in. The next thing is to give up my home and job (and cat) to go volunteer for a year to do community service for the Episcopal Church in a bigger city because there is a chance I *might* be able to find a new job and home afterward -- although it is very unlikely if I do such a thing that I would really be able to afford it because in that city prices are extremely high. It is simply not a risk I can dare take at this point in my life. And (s)he sneered about the job I currently have like it is not a respectable position (and many people in the place I live in cannot find employment at all, let alone full time employment), and I am simply disgusted that someone from the church would try to take this much control over my life, especially someone who has more money than (s)he knows what to do with and never had to work and has no clue whatsoever what is reasonable for me to risk or spend, and does not at all seem to care what I want to do with my life, nor has asked me whether I am actually happy or content as I am for the time being. I have no plans of rushing anything, but am steadily saving money.

And these are only the *least* crazy things this person has been doing. Some of the other stuff is actually a lot worse and involved wanting to practice New Age ideas on me for whatever reason, and I rejected it. I have stopped responding to texts and am probably going to drop out of any activities in the church in which I would run into this person. I have already said repeatedly that I am not interested in these things, nor are they reasonable options for me at this time in my life even if I happened to be interested. I do not want to be a priest. I do not want to be a monk. I do not want to spend thousands of dollars. I do not want to give up my job and home that I enjoy and feel safe in for risky ventures that someone else decides are best for me, especially when that person seems to be delusional.

I just feel like this parish culture has become toxic. I have not always had such problems with this parish, and I do not recall sermons always being this horrible and wrong. At this point I simply want to block out the homilies, avoid everyone, and simply focus on the liturgy and receiving the Eucharist. It is such a relief to receive the Eucharist and the only reason I go. But sometimes I simply feel disgusted with the church, the polemical sermons, hateful sentiments expressed toward minority races and cultures, the way I am being treated by someone of a higher socio-economic status who apparently thinks (s)he can take complete control over my life even though I am pretty sure that person must be awfully dense and obviously not nearly as competent as me in making decisions about my own finances, career, or vocation.

All of this has piled up on me quickly. It is too much. I am flabbergasted by the behavior of a few of these people who pride themselves on being such respectable members of the community. There are quite a few I can think of that I don't have any respect for at all regardless of their status in the community. Is this stuff even common in parish life?

I have not decided to leave my parish. Not that there would be anywhere else to go. But right now I have decided to involve myself in nothing other than receiving the Eucharist and do not care to become aquainted with or converse with anyone else.
 
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graceandpeace

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This is somewhat of a rant since the steps I am taking to deal with it are to my knowledge the only thing I can do.

There are some events in church I already do not involve myself in. I do not go to meetings dealing with business or events going on in the parish because after going to one of them I am disgusted with how some of the people in my parish with the most influence behave, and I do not appreciate racist slurs hurled around or disrupting meetings with protests when representatives of the diocese are present and speaking and other such ridiculous behavior. It is unbelievable the things people will say and do, and much of it is not even political, but pure hatred and racism as is very common in the rural south of the United States. I have not lost much by avoiding such meetings because I am not too interested in them to begin with, but it still bothers me that some of these people are the ones with the most power in the parish and filling up the vestry.

The priest is still saying completely inappropriate things from the pulpit. It is unbelievable. There are some days I simply cannot believe what I am hearing. I have planned to make a meeting with him to speak about it, although I am nervous. I seem to have already greatly offended him for expressing a different viewpoint when he seems to be expressing erroneous views of what trinitarian theology entails or when he believes that during his earthly life Jesus was omniscient and only pretended to take on natural human limitations. I did not even directly correct him. In fact he asked my opinion, and I told him.

I am very concerned about the sorts of statements being made about Muslims and Jews, especially when combined with rhetoric about guns sometimes being the only way to solve our problems. I am not sure at this point I should risk speaking to him directly and should instead simply write the bishop.

There is not much I can do about these sermons unless I just want to stop going to church. I became a part of this parish because it was relatively sane compared to all my other options, but I am starting to wonder what is happening to this place. Our previous priest had his problems, but he did not say things like this.

I have managed to deal with these above issues for some time, but I am having personal problems with a particular member who will simply not leave me alone. I am considering withdrawing from the one discussion group I am a part of simply to avoid this person. (S)he is very wealthy and has all these plans for my life now that I have obtained a degree, and they are all very expensive or of no interest to me. I have been pressured to travel out of state multiple times (for $1000s!) to consider becoming a Catholic monk (even though I am an Anglican), even to give up my job and home to go and live with them! Or to pay thousands of dollars to get training for a job I am not interested in and not at all sure I would be competent in. The next thing is to give up my home and job (and cat) to go volunteer for a year to do community service for the Episcopal Church in a bigger city because there is a chance I *might* be able to find a new job and home afterward -- although it is very unlikely if I do such a thing that I would really be able to afford it because in that city prices are extremely high. It is simply not a risk I can dare take at this point in my life. And (s)he sneered about the job I currently have like it is not a respectable position (and many people in the place I live in cannot find employment at all, let alone full time employment), and I am simply disgusted that someone from the church would try to take this much control over my life, especially someone who has more money than (s)he knows what to do with and never had to work and has no clue whatsoever what is reasonable for me to risk or spend, and does not at all seem to care what I want to do with my life, nor has asked me whether I am actually happy or content as I am for the time being. I have no plans of rushing anything, but am steadily saving money.

And these are only the *least* crazy things this person has been doing. Some of the other stuff is actually a lot worse and involved wanting to practice New Age ideas on me for whatever reason, and I rejected it. I have stopped responding to texts and am probably going to drop out of any activities in the church in which I would run into this person. I have already said repeatedly that I am not interested in these things, nor are they reasonable options for me at this time in my life even if I happened to be interested. I do not want to be a priest. I do not want to be a monk. I do not want to spend thousands of dollars. I do not want to give up my job and home that I enjoy and feel safe in for risky ventures that someone else decides are best for me, especially when that person seems to be delusional.

I just feel like this parish culture has become toxic. I have not always had such problems with this parish, and I do not recall sermons always being this horrible and wrong. At this point I simply want to block out the homilies, avoid everyone, and simply focus on the liturgy and receiving the Eucharist. It is such a relief to receive the Eucharist and the only reason I go. But sometimes I simply feel disgusted with the church, the polemical sermons, hateful sentiments expressed toward minority races and cultures, the way I am being treated by someone of a higher socio-economic status who apparently thinks (s)he can take complete control over my life even though I am pretty sure that person must be awfully dense and obviously not nearly as competent as me in making decisions about my own finances, career, or vocation.

All of this has piled up on me quickly. It is too much. I am flabbergasted by the behavior of a few of these people who pride themselves on being such respectable members of the community. There are quite a few I can think of that I don't have any respect for at all regardless of their status in the community. Is this stuff even common in parish life?

I have not decided to leave my parish. Not that there would be anywhere else to go. But right now I have decided to involve myself in nothing other than receiving the Eucharist and do not care to become aquainted with or converse with anyone else.

I'm so sorry you are facing these issues in your parish.

I'm conflicted on what I would do because on the one hand, in normal circumstances, I would go to the priest about the church member who is harassing you. If you've told this member to leave you alone about things but they're not listening, I would think it's time to get parish leadership involved.

But on the other hand, it seems you have conflict with the priest (& some elements in the parish itself) as well - with bad theology & harmful viewpoints, if I'm understanding right. So, it might be time to get in contact with the bishop.

Could you inform the bishop about the church member bothering you as well, & explain (if necessary) why you didn't just go to the parish leadership about various issues? Do you have any "proof" of some of the issues taking place (I.e. copies of sermons, the text messages from the offending church member), just in case they're needed? Is there anyone else in the parish who is friendly & can confirm what you might share with the bishop?

What is happening is not in step with the values of the Episcopal Church, & I've never encountered these sort of issues. I truly hope things work out for you, for the health of your parish & your own spiritual well-being.
 
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Albion

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To give up your principles would be wrong...but changing churches isn't. The situation you describe doesn't look likely to change too much, even if you make a strong stand, so I'd consider a fresh start. One thing that's certain is that going to church meetings and repeatedly coming away upset isn't what "church" is supposed to be about or produce in you.

Some people say that they are determined to "stay and fight." That might be advisable if we were talking about a political party or some civic organization, but not the ecclesia.
 
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graceandpeace

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^I also think finding another church could be a possibility. Your parish should not be causing this much distress. Are there other Episcopal options nearby? Maybe an ELCA option? However, I imagine it's not ideal to possibly feel "forced" to leave your own parish because of new or unresolved issues. Maybe contact the bishop no matter what you decide from here.

Let us know if we can help. Again, so sorry you're dealing with this situation.
 
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Paidiske

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Whatever you do, please do contact the bishop.

What you describe as your priest's behaviour is not, by any stretch of the imagination, acceptable. The bishop cannot deal with an issue about which s/he does not know. (And bishops do act on such information passed on!)
 
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everbecoming2007

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Are the sermons at the church recorded ?


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No, but this has been an ongoing problem for a long time now. I am just not sure how many people see it as a problem, not that it matters. I have noticed too that when our deacon or assistant priest give homilies he then steps in for announcements and re-interprets their homily away or sometimes just flat out negates it if it was the deacon speaking. It's very irritating and disrespectful.
 
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everbecoming2007

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Whatever you do, please do contact the bishop.

What you describe as your priest's behaviour is not, by any stretch of the imagination, acceptable. The bishop cannot deal with an issue about which s/he does not know. (And bishops do act on such information passed on!)

I had planned on speaking to him personally as that felt more appropriate than going straight to the bishop without any warning, but in my current circumstances I am beginning to think this might not be the best option for me, particularly if it will create an even more rocky circumstance for me in an already difficult situation. I will begin keeping notes and dates before I write a letter. I am very concerned with an extremist political element that has infiltrated this parish that was not nearly so prevelant before our old priest went into early retirement.

As to the other parish member trying to dictate my life I simply do not know what to do other than cut ties and avoid any social events in the church associated with that person.
 
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Bonifatius

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I agree with Paidiske that the bishop or perhaps an area dean should be aware of what is going on in sermons and the teaching in this church. On the other hand I agree with you that there is a personal element which should stay within the parish. But I don't think it is your duty to confront the priest directly and personnally without any support. Are there church wardens or vestry members you trust who could help you with this? I know that it can be very difficult for an individual parishioner to talk to a priest about the issues you have mentioned. I think it would be fair if you spoke to a church warden or a member of the vestry about your issues. They might then bring it up with the priest or offer some kind of meeting in which you and they talk to the priest togehter. In any case I think you should protect yourself from a priest whose actions seem to be potentially causing harm to you.
 
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SteveCaruso

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Just to re-emphasize what everyone else has said: With everything you've mentioned, this is ultimately a matter for the Bishop. It's one of the major reasons we have Bishops. Oversight.

But aye, you shouldn't do it unannounced. If you can find a warden or vestry member who feels the same way, the two (or three, if you're lucky) of you need to have a meeting with the Priest. Outline how you feel, and give concrete examples. If there is no plan forward, contact the Bishop directly. Racism is not acceptable. Full stop.

The person who is causing you difficulty, however, sounds like a parish busy-body on steroids. :) If you're firm enough – being more firm than polite if necessary, and finding that threshold is tough – they'll still be indignant. But if their nose is barked enough times they'll learn to stop pecking at you. There is at least one of those kinds of folks in every parish, it seems, and you have to be more confident with yourself than they are haughty. Not easy, but it's the only proven medicine.
 
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everbecoming2007

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I would never go to the vestry. What my priest is doing is not actually racism although some comments about Jews primarily concern their spiritual bondage. There was one comment that was actually disparaging simply in terms of ethnicity. I am going to follow things closely and note anything troubling before I take any hasty steps. Mostly what is going on is a complete identification of Muslims with terrorists, and it concerns me especially in regard to our local Muslim population. It is simply wrong to do this. And it really concerned me after a speaker gave a homily on Jesus' relations to the Samaritans he said some things after in the announcements that could have been construed easily as violent. I am going to note everything carefully from now on and not be hasty.

I cannot go to the vestry. Most of them are overtly racist and I am not merely assuming that either. I won't burden anyone with details. I know of two who are not and they have some resistance, but they are not well heeded.

I do not know how much will really be done. I hate to see this, but this is a widespread overt problem in my locality and not just in the church. The racial and religious tensions here are very strong. It is has always been very painful for me.
 
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