Frustrated with God

[SoulBap6]

you just said "if we repent of our sins" which once again brings up the question of whether or not we are required to have this deep heartfelt Godly sorrow before we can come to Christ. If repentance is a sorrow over sin, it really isn't something that comes naturally to the unsaved. We can turn from sin and stop doing it, but to grieve over it is something different altogether. I don't see how that can flow out of an unchanged heart, and I don't see how the heart can be changed without Jesus.

What is repentance? it means not doing, the sin turning 180degrees and walking away. Not really Hard to understand it is a decision, to except Christ as your Savior and follow him.

No one is telling you how you feel or how to do that, Deep grief or sorrow is not part of the deal thats up to you. Many people have different emotions but this is a personal DECISION thats between you and God.

when I ask Jesus Christ to come into my life and save my soul. I felt a relief come to me. others have a DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE NO ONE IS THE SAME. There is only one question, I will ask ; what is driving you! to find the answer, to this question of salvation?

 

[cedward1]

There is only one question, I will ask ; what is driving you! to find the answer, to this question of salvation?

For me it is the obvious answer: if I'm not saved, I will suffer God's wrath.

There are other motives as well, but they all pale in comparison to not wanting to suffer for eternity.

 

[Anihilus]

Don't get caught up on why you want to get saved. The Bible does not tell you to wait for right motives to come. Many of the people who came to Christ came because they wanted something from Him, and He gave it to them freely. He did not turn them away saying "woah, your motives are not right, come back when they are". If you are lost you need salvation and Christ gives it freely to ALL who come to Him for it.

If you want to be saved that is reason enough to come to Christ and be saved.

Don't make excuses to not come.

 

[cedward1]

What about Jesus' commands to repent? Can I come to Christ if I'm not truly sorry over sin? That's the part that worries me. Trying to feel sorry over sin makes it a work, but ignoring the issue altogether seems to be ignoring the command to repent.

Also, is going to Christ simply asking Him to save me? I don't know of any other way to go to Him except in prayer, but sometimes I wonder if that is what it means.

 

[Biscuithands]

I recommend you read a book I found on Amazon.com titled: Forbidden Knowledge (by Chris Masterson). It's inexpensive and it might answer some questions.


http://www.biscuithands.com

 

[saved24]

What about Jesus' commands to repent? Can I come to Christ if I'm not truly sorry over sin? That's the part that worries me. Trying to feel sorry over sin makes it a work, but ignoring the issue altogether seems to be ignoring the command to repent.

Also, is going to Christ simply asking Him to save me? I don't know of any other way to go to Him except in prayer, but sometimes I wonder if that is what it means.

Thank you for sharing - we should not ignore the issue of repenting.

What I find confusing why someone would not feel sorry for their sins, does that mean they are happy they sinned?

God bless.

 

[SoulBap6]

What I find confusing why someone would not feel sorry for their sins, does that mean they are happy they sinned?

Many people minamize sin, or do not see as there sin being Bad. In fact people enjoy the sin take a person who likes Drugs, they don't see anything wrong until there is a problem. People who drink Alcohol find it ok to drink until a problem comes up about drinking. A person who enjoys having all kind of sex with all kind of partners until a problem comes up. They minamize it because they like what they are doing. Until there arrested for Drug possession, DWI, or AIDS then people take notice. Lying Cheating, stealing is just a side line to the rest of the sin. In the world today minor things don't seem like much to the world but to God is a different story, morality, Dignity, and truth are lost in a world they wants to justify any type of behavior. Nothing is kept all is shown to the world all the filth. Dirt sells Books Magazines
inappropriate content Industry is a Billion Dollar a year trade and Human Trafficing is number three in the world for the Money made in Human Slavery. When people have a issue that sin is some how a small thing. Which part of what I have written is your choice of things you like to do and don't think its a big deal.

I see the human suffering in prison, rescue missions, and in the streets. SIn destroys Families, relationships, Children, and Lives unrepenting human beings with sick deranged minds that Rape, murder and Kill because sin is no big deal. I have preached in Prison. These people didn't think it was big Deal to Murder or Rape what Sin? The question is who is a sinner we all are no one cannot say they are without sin. All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. When someone tells me they don't see there sin is Bad or they have a problem with repentance. I find that there were a few people who were serial killers that didn't think Killing people was Bad either?

 

[Fierce Badger]

I've asked God so many times to reveal my sin to me...I know God sees all sin the same. I know that sin no matter how "small" will seperate you from God. But, at the same time, I'm so prideful that I think I'm a good person and I feel no remorse at all about my sin...

Hey coconut. I want to share an ancient prayer that I think you might find helpful: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." It's a great prayer to say throughout the day and it's simple and short.

Also I'll pray for you.

 

[saved24]

What I find confusing why someone would not feel sorry for their sins, does that mean they are happy they sinned?

Many people minamize sin, or do not see as there sin being Bad. In fact people enjoy the sin take a person who likes Drugs, they don't see anything wrong until there is a problem. People who drink Alcohol find it ok to drink until a problem comes up about drinking. A person who enjoys having all kind of sex with all kind of partners until a problem comes up. They minamize it because they like what they are doing. Until there arrested for Drug possession, DWI, or AIDS then people take notice. Lying Cheating, stealing is just a side line to the rest of the sin. In the world today minor things don't seem like much to the world but to God is a different story, morality, Dignity, and truth are lost in a world they wants to justify any type of behavior. Nothing is kept all is shown to the world all the filth. Dirt sells Books Magazines
inappropriate content Industry is a Billion Dollar a year trade and Human Trafficing is number three in the world for the Money made in Human Slavery. When people have a issue that sin is some how a small thing. Which part of what I have written is your choice of things you like to do and don't think its a big deal.

I see the human suffering in prison, rescue missions, and in the streets. SIn destroys Families, relationships, Children, and Lives unrepenting human beings with sick deranged minds that Rape, murder and Kill because sin is no big deal. I have preached in Prison. These people didn't think it was big Deal to Murder or Rape what Sin? The question is who is a sinner we all are no one cannot say they are without sin. All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. When someone tells me they don't see there sin is Bad or they have a problem with repentance. I find that there were a few people who were serial killers that didn't think Killing people was Bad either?

Thank you so much for your answer. It has sure helped me to understand where some people are coming from and why they are finding it hard to be sorry for their sins.

God bless.

 

[cedward1]

In my case, my biggest problem with repentance is how do I know if I'm repenting? Remorse is one of those things that the more you examine it the harder it is to know if you feel it. Especially when it's something like "feel sorry or suffer for eternity". It becomes a viscious cycle of trying to repent, looking at your repentance hoping it's genuine, not being able to tell, trying harder, and ending up forgetting about Christ completely as you dredge up memories of sin after sin to analyze how you feel.

If my salvation depends on feelings of sorrow, then even if I am saved I will never have any peace. I can't trust any of my own feelings. But if Jesus Himself grants repentance to those who seek Him, I can take my focus off of myself and put it back on Him.

Which brings up the question I asked earlier: can we come to Christ just as we are, or must we come only if we are repenting? If I must be repenting, how would I ever know if my sorrow is genuine enough for me to be able to come to Christ?

My only hope for peace is if Jesus gives me all that I need for salvation, including repentance. If anything is up to me, there will always be a doubt that I didn't do it right.

 

[98cwitr]

It's kinda like "You're not sorry, you're just sorry cause you got caught!"

iow, you're sorry because you are aware of the consequences and not necessarily out of genuine love for God? Sounds like something a child would do, but we do come to Christ as children don't we?

 

[RobertZ]

What is true repentance? Commenting on Psalm 51, D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones said:

I do not hesitate to assert that this is perhaps the most subtle and delicate test as to whether we have repented, or where we are: our attitude towards God. Have you noticed it in the Psalm? The one against whom David has sinned is God, and yet the one he desires above all is God. That is the difference between remorse... and repentance. The man who has not repented, but who is only experiencing remorse, when he realizes he has done something against God, avoids God . . . The man who has not been dealt with by the Spirit of God and has not been convinced and convicted, tries to get away from God, to avoid Him at all costs. He does not think, he does not read the Bible, the does not pray; he does everything he can not to think about these things. But the extraordinary thing about the man who is convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit is that though he knows he has sinned against God, it is God he wants – “Be merciful to me, O God.” He wants to be with God – that is the peculiar paradox of repentance, wanting the One I have offended!

 

[Kormagh]

Paul Washer said once to a woman that was seeking God's forgiveness, You have 2 choices, give up and go to hell, or keep on praying for God to save you till he does.

 

[RobertZ]

Paul Washer said once to a woman that was seeking God's forgiveness, You have 2 choices, give up and go to hell, or keep on praying for God to save you till he does.

As much as I love to listen to Paul Washer I have to say that I dont think I agree with what he told that woman. Jesus did everything necessary to save us and to beg God over and over again to save us seems more like unbelief on the persons part than anything else.

From what I remember God did save this women but I dont believe it was because she asked him over and over again as if he was refusing to save her in the first place. I dont know but to me this paints a cruel picture of God with his arms crossed refusing to save someone who is begging and pleading with him, we know that isnt the nature of God.

 

[Kormagh]

From what I remember God did save this women but I dont believe it was because she asked him over and over again as if he was refusing to save her in the first place. I dont know but to me this paints a cruel picture of God with his arms crossed refusing to save someone who is begging and pleading with him, we know that isnt the nature of God.

I understand your position, I was saved in the same manor as she was. After years and years of believing the "sinners prayer" I still had no assurance in my heart that I was forgiven. Everyone told me I was saved but I still loved my sin. For 3 months I saught God. He made himself real to me and I now know I am saved because he has changed me, not because of anything I have done or said or believed, but because HE saved me.

 

[Kormagh]

As much as I love to listen to Paul Washer I have to say that I dont think I agree with what he told that woman. Jesus did everything necessary to save us and to beg God over and over again to save us seems more like unbelief on the persons part than anything else.

Yes he did everything to save us, but salvation is not a magic formula. We are commanded to repent and believe yet we cannot do either without God's help. I know there are many who believe in decision regeneration, and God is merciful, but to say a person is saved because they have done A, B, and C when God has not done a work in the heart is presumptuous.
Also, you call it begging. What if God patiently waits for us to seek him for who he is and not just for what we selfishly want from him, like a get out of hell free card or a prosperous life, before he truly saves us ? Just some thoughts.

 

[RobertZ]

Also, you call it begging. What if God patiently waits for us to seek him for who he is and not just for what we selfishly want from him, like a get out of hell free card or a prosperous life, before he truly saves us ? Just some thoughts.

Good point and I agree with what you just said. I think in my situation the enemy tries to paint a cruel picture of God to make it seem like he is just standing there with arms crossed and waiting until we have begged him enough before he saves us.

Im in a bout of spiritual warefare right now so I know this is the enemy putting this false picture of God into my mind because I know God does not work like that at all!

 

[Hupomone10]

Paul Washer said once to a woman that was seeking God's forgiveness, You have 2 choices, give up and go to hell, or keep on praying for God to save you till he does.

As much as I love to listen to Paul Washer I have to say that I dont think I agree with what he told that woman. Jesus did everything necessary to save us and to beg God over and over again to save us seems more like unbelief on the persons part than anything else.

From what I remember God did save this women but I dont believe it was because she asked him over and over again as if he was refusing to save her in the first place. I dont know but to me this paints a cruel picture of God with his arms crossed refusing to save someone who is begging and pleading with him, we know that isnt the nature of God.

I understand your position, I was saved in the same manor as she was. After years and years of believing the "sinners prayer" I still had no assurance in my heart that I was forgiven. Everyone told me I was saved but I still loved my sin. For 3 months I saught God. He made himself real to me and I now know I am saved because he has changed me, not because of anything I have done or said or believed, but because HE saved me.

Hi kormagh,
Welcome to the CF and to Baptist sub-forum!

Robert,
I think you are wise in your assessment of this. We don't have to beg God over and over to save us, and that is doubt, not faith. If salvation is of the Lord and election is in His hands, totally apart "from the will of man" (John 1:13), then we're not going to talk Him into anything. It is totally against all the plain teaching of Scripture that we should EVER recommend to someone to pray and pray and pray that God WILL someday save them. That makes it totally subjective. Why do I say that?

Look at what kromagh said.

1. He said he was saved the same way as the lady (by praying for a while), but what he lacked was "assurance" of salvation, which he identified in the next sentence.So, at that point we do not know whether he was saved or not, but we do know he had no assurance of it, especially from his continued love of sin. More on that later.

2. For 3 months he "sought God", IOW, he prayed and prayed and prayed a modified sinner's prayer. More on that in a minute.

3. He found assurance of salvation because he had an encounter, experience, etc, where God "made himself real" to him and because God changed him.

IOW, his assurance is based on subjective things in himself, an encounter with God and current changes in behavior and desires. These are all subjective; and because they are subjective, they are fickle and subject to change.

We don't every want to anchor our assurance on anything other than the sure Word of God - His revealed accomplished work and His promises of what He will infallibly do if we believe His Word and receive His Son. It doesn't matter what we feel.

Now, back to #2, I know he didn't call what he did exactly this, but read between the lines: all he did and all Washer recommended the lady do was pray a continuous long term "sinner's prayer" and then, like everyone else, he came to a point where he believed the sinner's prayer was answered. Was it a sinner's prayer? What else could it be? He was a self-confessed sinner.

That's all the lady did too; and that's all he told her to do, go away and pray a sinner's prayer, with one sad modification: instead of getting in touch with God and Christ in prayer and accepting and believing His shed blood and substitutionary sacrifice for her and going out and acting in accordance with that faith, she is told to pray that "sinner's prayer" over and over and over until one day she "feels" saved. Then all will be well.

That is basing it all on subjective experience.

We shouldn't get the cart before the horse.

Fact (God's truth) -- Faith -- Feeling, Experience

Not the other way around.

So that brings us back to faith again. Saving faith is not complex and not hard. Don't make it so.

It's time, Robert, to accept the fact that you believe in the Lord Jesus as your only hope of eternal life, and move on in the Christian life, letting Him do for and in you what you cannot do for yourself.

 

[RobertZ]

Hi kormagh,
Welcome to the CF and to Baptist sub-forum!

Robert,
I think you are wise in your assessment of this. We don't have to beg God over and over to save us, and that is doubt, not faith. If salvation is of the Lord and election is in His hands, totally apart "from the will of man" (John 1:13), then we're not going to talk Him into anything. It is totally against all the plain teaching of Scripture that we should EVER recommend to someone to pray and pray and pray that God WILL someday save them. That makes it totally subjective. Why do I say that?

Look at what kromagh said.

1. He said he was saved the same way as the lady (by praying for a while), but what he lacked was "assurance" of salvation, which he identified in the next sentence.So, at that point we do not know whether he was saved or not, but we do know he had no assurance of it, especially from his continued love of sin. More on that later.

2. For 3 months he "sought God", IOW, he prayed and prayed and prayed a modified sinner's prayer. More on that in a minute.

3. He found assurance of salvation because he had an encounter, experience, etc, where God "made himself real" to him and because God changed him.

IOW, his assurance is based on subjective things in himself, an encounter with God and current changes in behavior and desires. These are all subjective; and because they are subjective, they are fickle and subject to change.

We don't every want to anchor our assurance on anything other than the sure Word of God - His revealed accomplished work and His promises of what He will infallibly do if we believe His Word and receive His Son. It doesn't matter what we feel.

Now, back to #2, I know he didn't call what he did exactly this, but read between the lines: all he did and all Washer recommended the lady do was pray a continuous long term "sinner's prayer" and then, like everyone else, he came to a point where he believed the sinner's prayer was answered. Was it a sinner's prayer? What else could it be? He was a self-confessed sinner.

That's all the lady did too; and that's all he told her to do, go away and pray a sinner's prayer, with one sad modification: instead of getting in touch with God and Christ in prayer and accepting and believing His shed blood and substitutionary sacrifice for her and going out and acting in accordance with that faith, she is told to pray that "sinner's prayer" over and over and over until one day she "feels" saved. Then all will be well.

That is basing it all on subjective experience.

We shouldn't get the cart before the horse.

Fact (God's truth) -- Faith -- Feeling, Experience

Not the other way around.

So that brings us back to faith again. Saving faith is not complex and not hard. Don't make it so.

It's time, Robert, to accept the fact that you believe in the Lord Jesus as your only hope of eternal life, and move on in the Christian life, letting Him do for and in you what you cannot do for yourself.

Thanks, good post and sheds some light on things.

 

[Hupomone10]

Part of the confusion I think we're seeing here, and often see, is because of our misunderstanding of what should be a basic principle in the Christian life: the difference between our position in Christ and our present condition at any given moment, Position vs. Condition; sometimes called Standing vs. State.

The distinction between our position and condition is a concept largely forgotten today. It is seldom taught from either the pulpit or in books. Our ignorance of this concept has not only limited our understanding of the scriptures, but has also directly impacted our spiritual growth and success at overcoming sins and weaknesses in our lives. I lost this concept myself about 28 years ago. Driven by need and necessity, I rediscovered it in 2007.

Many passages of scripture show us the distinction between our position in Christ and our condition in this life, and refer to one or the other.

Examples:
POSITION
1 Cor 1:2,4,5,7 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling,... that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,... so that you are not lacking in any gift,...

CONDITION
1 Cor 1:11 For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe's people, that there are quarrels among you.
1 Cor. 4:18 Now some have become arrogant, as though I were not coming to you.
1 Cor. 3:1,3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. For you are still fleshly.

Our position in Christ is the result of the completed work of Christ. Christ’s work is finished and cannot change, therefore our position in Christ cannot change. It is perfect and complete, and is ours from the moment we believed in Christ as Savior. There is no difference positionally between the weakest believer and the strongest saint, the new convert and the mature, the carnal Christian and the spiritual. Our position can also be called our standing.

Our condition, on the other hand, is usually very different from our position. Our condition is where we are on the road to spiritual maturity, the degree to which our present behavior reflects our position in Christ. It can also be called our state. It seems increasingly clear to me that every Christian’s path involves at some point moving from being condition-focused to position-focused, from basing our Christian living on our ever changing condition to our constant and perfect position in Christ. The Christian who realizes this and implements it will see great change in his condition and will make great strides in spiritual growth.