Freedom

[IAMANOBODY2015]

Do the words ‘freedom’ and ‘liberty’ mean not being persecuted or discriminated against, or do they mean doing whatever you please?

 

[quatona]

Do the words ‘freedom’ and ‘liberty’ mean not being persecuted or discriminated against, or do they mean doing whatever you please?

Without any qualifier "...from" or ...to" the word "freedom" doesn´t tell me much.

As to "liberty":
Liberty, in philosophy, involves free will as contrasted with determinism.[1] In politics, liberty consists of the social and political freedoms enjoyed by all citizens.[2] In theology, liberty is freedom from the bondage of sin.[3]
(Wikipedia)

 

[AlexDTX]

The two words are synonyms. Freedom is an Old English word meaning domain of the free. Liberty is a Latin word that means free. Since Jesus came to set us free, it is understood that does not mean to do anything we want that is contrary to the laws of physics, the spirit and social morays. But, on the other side of your question, believers throughout history have been persecuted, and the Bible makes it clear that all who live godly will suffer persecution. The freedom that Christ gives us is a freedom from the fear of death since we know we have life everlasting through Him.

 

[Reformed Lutheran]

They mean having freedom and liberty from SOMETHING,, ie., to be freed.. In the biblical context being freed from the slavery of sin a death.
Ie, not the freedom to go and sin, but the freedom from enslaving power of sin

 

[Received]

Whether we're talking about liberty, freedom, etc., I can only understand the terms in two different ways. The first is freedom (or liberty) in the sense of freedom from constraints, the most obvious of which are physical constraints but can also include psychological constraints (e.g., the freedom to not be verbally abused). This type of freedom is the easy freedom, "the soul's right to breathe", the freedom of unbuttoning yourself.

The other freedom is freedom of the will, which is the hard freedom, because free will always works against what's immediate or easy; free will is realized in whatever doesn't just happen automatically. In this sense a person is most free when he does the most difficult but right thing, such as standing up against his friends and taking a stand.

Kierkegaard said that people demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought which they rarely use. Freedom of speech is (often) the first type of freedom: freedom from constraints against what you want to say. Freedom of thought, however, is the second type of freedom, because thinking is hard, and so involves going against the grain of immediacy via your will.

So it's totally possible that people are free in one sense and unfree in another. We see this in America all over the place: people who dissolve in wrath at the idea of taking away any physical or psychological constraint (e.g., discrimination), but never use their wills to move beyond their basic backdrift state of sensationalism and superficiality.

What this means is that it's possible that one type of freedom (the easy type) can "spoil" a person by buffering them against using the hard, will-based type of freedom that comes with being a self. If you give a person everything he wants, even if this comes packaged with really noble principles (such as pushing against hate speech), it's much easier for him to exist without really needing to become something, because all basic needs and comfort are provided. This is why people who really suffer with continuity are often (far from always) the people who have a strong backbone of selfhood, because suffering requires that you push against the grain with your will or else are defeated.

 

[durangodawood]

Do the words ‘freedom’ and ‘liberty’ mean not being persecuted or discriminated against, or do they mean doing whatever you please?

The essence of freedom is the latitude to do things, think things, be things.
So essentially, it means doing what you please.
Obviously you can see how freedom, as a value, can quickly conflict with other values we hold dear.

 

[IAMANOBODY2015]

Thanks everyone.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Do the words ‘freedom’ and ‘liberty’ mean not being persecuted or discriminated against, or do they mean doing whatever you please?

That's a false alternative. The words mean neither of your options.

Freedom and liberty have similar meanings. They mean that you have rational self-direction in society -- that you are able to make decisions for your own life, though not necessarily for anyone else's life. A lack of freedom or liberty implies some form of slavery or imprisonment or other limitations on your ability to make choices for yourself.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[ecco]

Do the words ‘freedom’ and ‘liberty’ mean not being persecuted or discriminated against, or do they mean doing whatever you please?

Neither

 

[ecco]

But, on the other side of your question, believers throughout history have been persecuted, and the Bible makes it clear that all who live godly will suffer persecution.

Who has been doing the persecuting? Catholics persecuted Protestants. Protestants persecuted Catholics. Catholics persecuted Jews. Protestants persecuted Protestants.

Did I miss any?

 

[IAMANOBODY2015]

That's a false alternative. The words mean neither of your options.

Freedom and liberty have similar meanings. They mean that you have rational self-direction in society -- that you are able to make decisions for your own life, though not necessarily for anyone else's life. A lack of freedom or liberty implies some form of slavery or imprisonment or other limitations on your ability to make choices for yourself.


eudaimonia,

Mark

That makes sense.

 

[IAMANOBODY2015]

The two words are synonyms. Freedom is an Old English word meaning domain of the free. Liberty is a Latin word that means free. Since Jesus came to set us free, it is understood that does not mean to do anything we want that is contrary to the laws of physics, the spirit and social morays. But, on the other side of your question, believers throughout history have been persecuted, and the Bible makes it clear that all who live godly will suffer persecution. The freedom that Christ gives us is a freedom from the fear of death since we know we have life everlasting through Him.

Yes, this is good.

I am not free then. Though, I claim to be a Christian, I am still not free of sin. Jesus said he came to set us free from our sin. Therefore I fear death.

 

[durangodawood]

That's a false alternative. The words mean neither of your options.

Freedom and liberty have similar meanings. They mean that you have rational self-direction in society -- that you are able to make decisions for your own life, though not necessarily for anyone else's life. A lack of freedom or liberty implies some form of slavery or imprisonment or other limitations on your ability to make choices for yourself.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Freedom absolutely includes manipulating others, if thats your desire.
Freedom is like the form. What you do with it is the content.

 

[dayhiker]

Gal.5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Freedom absolutely includes manipulating others, if thats your desire.
Freedom is like the form. What you do with it is the content.

I never used the word "manipulation".

Anyway, one can read the word in that way, but that's not how the word is normally used.

Typically, it is used as a social principle that applies to everyone. One isn't "unfree" because one can't own slaves, but because one isn't a slave oneself.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[durangodawood]

I never used the word "manipulation".

Anyway, one can read the word in that way, but that's not how the word is normally used.

Typically, it is used as a social principle that applies to everyone. One isn't "unfree" because one can't own slaves, but because one isn't a slave oneself.


eudaimonia,

Mark

I think I was referring to this:
"that you are able to make decisions for your own life, though not necessarily for anyone else's life."

I really do think that freedom is essentially 'content' neutral. So, of course it includes any action you would like to engage in, be it enslaving by force, or just deadly carelessness. We have narrowed it down to the social principle you mention. But if you expand that idea properly you get something more complicated than plain freedom, something like: "the morally permissible degree of freedom within a social setting".

 

[AlexDTX]

We should consider the word, freedom, from the divine perspective. Consider Yahweh. He is free from eternity past and eternity future. Before creation it was only Him. There was nothing but Him. Yet He is free. Freedom in God has nothing to do with creation nor others. It is an inherent characteristic of life itself. This is why a man in Christ bound by chains in prison is still free. It refers to our inner mind and heart.