Former atheist Howard Storm asks about holocaust during his NDE?!

[DennisTate]

I personally am wide open to the possibility that what former atheist Howard Storm was shown regarding the background events surrounding the holocaust fit perfectly with II Corinthians 12:2-4:

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; )
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Howard Storm:

I asked how God could let the Holocaust of World War II happen. We were transported to a railway station as a long train of freight cars was being unloaded of its human cargo. The guards were screaming and beating the people into submission. The people were Jewish men, women, and children. Exhausted from hunger and thirst, they were totally disoriented from the ordeal of being rounded up and sent on a long journey to an unknown destination. They believed that they were going to work camps, and that their submission to the brutality of the guards was the only way to survive.

We went to the area where the selection process was taking place and heard the guards talking about "the Angel Maker." We went to the place the guards were referring to as "the Angel Maker," which was a series of ovens. I saw piles of naked corpses being loaded into the ovens, and I began to cry. ...."These are the people God loves." Then he said, "Look up." Rising out of the smoke of the chimneys, I saw hundreds of people being met by thousands of angels taking them up into the sky. There was great joy in the faces of the people, and there appeared to be no trace of a memory of the horrendous suffering they had just endured. How ironic that the guards sarcastically called the ovens "the Angel Maker."
...
I asked how God could allow this to happen. They told me that this was not God's will. This was an abomination to God. God wants this never to happen again. This was the sacrifice of an innocent people to whom God had given the law to be an example, a light, to the rest of the world. This Holocaust was breaking God's heart...."

I asked, Why does God let things like this happen? They told me that God was very unhappy with the course of human history and was going to intervene to change the world. God had watched us sink to depths of depravity and cruelty at the very time that he was giving us the instruments to make the world a godlier world. God had intervened in the world many times before, but this time God was going to change the course of human events.// (Howard Storm, My Descent Into Death, page 42,43)

 

[yonah_mishael]

I chose the "No" option, despite its qualifications. I was hoping to run into a choice that just said, "No, that's hooky nonsense." Couldn't find that in the options!

 

[DennisTate]

I chose the "No" option, despite its qualifications. I was hoping to run into a choice that just said, "No, that's hooky nonsense." Couldn't find that in the options!

I personally have to admit that I went through a phase where I seriously questioned if the NDE accounts could often be meetings with a certain angel who has the power to appear as an angel of light...but then I ran into a verse in the Catholic Bible that dramatically altered my opinion:

[6] For my angel is with you: And I myself will demand an account of your souls. (Baruch 6:6 Catholic Bible)

In my opinion, because I regard the Catholic Bible as actually being a Jewish document, this verse may identify the being of light as none other than the Logos/Word or the G-d of Abraham who led Israel out of Egypt?!

 

[DennisTate]

What do you think of the NDE account of Dr. George Ritchie?

In my opinion it seems to be one of the ones that a Christian might be very willing to accept.



George Ritchie, near-death.com:

Jesus gives him a tour of four different dimensions in the afterlife. They both fly toward a large city on Earth where they notice a group of assembly-line workers at work. He witnesses the spirit of a woman trying desperately to obtain a cigarette from the workers who are oblivious to her presence. This woman died severely addicted to cigarettes.

In a house, Jesus shows him the spirit of a boy following a living teenage girl and begging for forgiveness while the girl is completely unaware of the boy's presence. Jesus tells George that the boy committed suicide and is "chained to every consequence of his act."

Jesus shows George a bar filled with sailors who are heavily drinking. Spirits try desperately and in vain to get a drink or to control the sailors' alcoholic behavior. These spirits are from humans who die severely alcoholic. He is horrified as he observes a drunken sailor pass out and an alcoholic spirit jump into the body of the sailor.

Jesus takes him to a new dimension away from Earth and shows him a kind of "receiving station" where spirits would arrive in a deep hypnotic sleep because of their beliefs. These are spirits who believe they must sleep after death until Jesus returns.

Jesus shows him a dimension where angry spirits are locked in hand-to-hand combat, trying in vain to hurt each other. He hears verbal abuse going on. He observes some trying in vain to get sexual gratification from each other. He also sees spirits arguing over some religious or political point and trying to kill the ones who did not agree with them. Here, he realizes he is seeing hell. These are spirits who are locked into some earthly desire that went beyond the physical and which cannot be satisfied in the spirit.

He is then taken to a different dimension appearing like an enormous university. Here he observes people dressed as monks engaged in some form of artistic behavior or research. He is taken into an enormous library where all the important books of the universe are assembled. He asks Jesus if this is heaven. He replies that these are the people who grew beyond selfish desires while on Earth. George realizes these people cannot see Jesus, just as the others could not see him in hell.

Jesus takes him into outer space toward a distant city made of brilliant light of a similar description to the city in the Book of Revelation. He speculates this is the place where people go who have become Christ-like while on Earth. Here, love was the dominant focus of life. He realizes he is seeing heaven, but he is not allowed to go in. Jesus then shows him the future of the Earth. He then returns to his physical body.

 

[GuardianShua]

There is a difference between dream visions and actual out of body experiences. But both are of equal importance. It requires a spirit of discernment to know if it is a act of God or foolishness.

 

[DennisTate]

There is a difference between dream visions and actual out of body experiences. But both are of equal importance. It requires a spirit of discernment to know if it is a act of God or foolishness.

Extremely well said GuardianShua!!!!!

Do you think I am correct to suspect that the prophet Elisha may have experienced out of the body experiences that he had some control over???!!!!

And one of his servants said, None, my lord, O king: but Elisha, the prophet that [is] in Israel, telleth the king of Israel the words that thou speakest in thy bedchamber. (II Kings 6:12)

 

[Theofane]

Are we freethinkers if we consider NDE's and OBE's to be real?

 

[GuardianShua]

Extremely well said GuardianShua!!!!!

Do you think I am correct to suspect that the prophet Elisha may have experienced out of the body experiences that he had some control over???!!!!

Did you mean Elijah? It is possible to have some control over it.
2 Kings 2
9 When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, “Tell me, what can I do for you before I am taken from you?”

“Let me inherit a double portion of your spirit,” Elisha replied.

10 “You have asked a difficult thing,” Elijah said, “yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours—otherwise, it will not.”

11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind. 12 Elisha saw this and cried out, “My father! My father! The chariots and horsemen of Israel!” And Elisha saw him no more. Then he took hold of his garment and tore it in two.

13 Elisha then picked up Elijah’s cloak that had fallen from him and went back and stood on the bank of the Jordan.

 

[DennisTate]

Are we freethinkers if we consider NDE's and OBE's to be real?

I know that they played a huge role in assisting me to move on from the Worldwide Church of God and a rather dogmatic belief that the dead had zero conscious activity until the resurrection!

They also can be amazingly beneficial if you know somebody who is depressed or even suicidal. All of us seem to take eye witness testimony of somebody from our time period more seriously.

 

[DennisTate]

Don Brubaker certainly had an NDE that is relavant to Christians:


Don Brubaker

"I want to go back," I answered immediately, knowing I made the right choice.

Jesus smiles.

"You have chosen well. Go. I am with you," Jesus says gently.

Everything changes again, as if someone has turned a page in a book. I see myself in the midst of a huge crowd. It's not a modern crowd. They are dressed in the clothes of Bible times. I look down at myself. So am I!

The crowd seems to be jeering at me. Why? Then I see more: I help a man, someone who has been brutally whipped and abused. The crowd is upset because I am offering assistance. But the beaten man has eyes that burn with love and compassion.

How could anyone want to hurt this man? I lift the man off of the dusty road to his feet.

The man turns, and from somewhere he lifts a huge wooden cross to his back. The man begins moving toward a hill. The hill is called Golgotha. With each new moment, I realize more and more clearly what I am seeing.

These people are going to crucify Christ.

I follow, stunned, I watch in horror as Jesus is nailed to the cross, the spikes pounded through his wrists and the sensitive insteps of his feet. I watch helpless as the cross is propped up and dropped into position with an ugly thud. I cover my face with my hands.

If only others could see what I've seen. The world would get on its knees ... The world would be at peace.

 

[DennisTate]

Did you mean Elijah? It is possible to have some control over it.
2 Kings 2
.......

10 “You have asked a difficult thing,” Elijah said, “yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours—otherwise, it will not.”

......

Thanks GuardianShua:

This is certainly a perfect example of how our choices and decisions can radically affect our future and the future of others because Elisha altered the future of the world by seeking that double portion with his whole heart!

 

[GuardianShua]

I have had an out of body experience, and it was an act of God. What those people are describing is a vision, not an out of body experience.

 

[GuardianShua]

 

[DennisTate]

I have had an out of body experience, and it was an act of God. What those people are describing is a vision, not an out of body experience.

Wow!!!!!!

I am seriously impressed!!!!!

Please feel total freedom to add a link to any other discussion in which you have already gotten into details on what you experienced!

I suspect that I was close to having an OBE back in late 1990 or early 1991 after taking high levels of a nutritional product called Matol for nearly two years!

 

[GuardianShua]

Wow!!!!!!

I am seriously impressed!!!!!

Please feel total freedom to add a link to any other discussion in which you have already gotten into details on what you experienced!

I suspect that I was close to having an OBE back in late 1990 or early 1991 after taking high levels of a nutritional product called Matol for nearly two years!

Because it was personal I do not discuss it. But it was an answer to a prayer a year before. It is possible for the experience to result in death or insanity. I will not teach it to others.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Because it was personal I do not discuss it. But it was an answer to a prayer a year before. It is possible for the experience to result in death or insanity. I will not teach it to others.

Hmmm....

 

[GuardianShua]

Hmmm....

Bit your tongue Yonah.

 

[aniello]

Hmmm....

Yeah, I'm going to re-read Franz Kafka's 'Metamorphosis'. Where's my Haldol?

 

[Jase]

I personally am wide open to the possibility that what former atheist Howard Storm was shown regarding the background events surrounding the holocaust fit perfectly with II Corinthians 12:2-4:




Howard Storm:

His story sounds off. From a Christian theological standpoint, most of those Jews would not be saved and would be going to Hell after the gas chambers, so why are Angels coming for them?

 

[DennisTate]

Because it was personal I do not discuss it. But it was an answer to a prayer a year before. It is possible for the experience to result in death or insanity. I will not teach it to others.

Very probably a wise decision GuardianShua!

The Apostle Paul was not joking around when he wrote these words!

How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

(II Corinthians 12:4)

GuardianShua, I have a feeling that God may clearly speak to you before the year 2020 or so to go ahead and tell people what you were shown! By then He can give you a whole new understanding of the entire experience that fits perfectly with mysteries that are being revealed by that time.


You will probably have to add the Facebook Forum App before this is visible to you but this message from Adam to all of mankind will help you to understand your experience and how it fits in the Battle of the Great Day of the Lord Almighty!

https://apps.facebook.com/forumforpages/105842322826622/bd33d42f-f985-4827-b6aa-60fe2fbebc65/0

A message from Adam to all of humanity by Pastor Rick Joyner

Pastor Rick Joyner: "Love Releases Life

Another man who looked almost exactly like Abel came and stood beside him.

“I am Adam,” he said. “I was given authority over the earth, but I gave it to the evil one by obeying evil. He now rules in my place and your place. The earth was given to man, but the evil one has taken it. The authority I lost was restored by the cross. Jesus Christ is ‘the last Adam,’ and He will soon take His authority and rule. He will rule through mankind because He gave the earth to mankind. Those who live in your times will prepare the earth for Him to rule.”

“Please tell me more,” I asked, a little surprised to see Adam, but wanting to hear everything he had to say. “How do we prepare for Him?”

“Love,” he said. “You must love one another. You must love the earth, and you must love life. My sin released the death that now flows as rivers upon the earth. Your love will release rivers of life. When evil reigns, death is stronger than life, and death prevails over life. When righteousness reigns, life prevails, and life is stronger than death. Soon the life of the Son of God will swallow up the death that was released through my disobedience. It is not just living that you must love, but life. Death is your enemy. You are called to be a messenger of life.

“When the Lord’s people begin to love, He will use them to release His judgments. His judgments are to be desired. The whole world is groaning and travailing as it waits for His judgments, and when they come, the world will learn righteousness. What He is about to do, He will do through His people, and His people will stand as Elijah in the last days. Their words will shut up the heavens or bring rain; they will prophesy earthquakes and famines, and they will come to pass; they will stop famines and earthquakes......