Dismiss Notice

Welcome to Christian Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
  • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
  • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting after you have posted 20 posts and have received 5 likes.
  • Access to private conversations with other members.

We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

For SDAs: Prophetic time chart of Daniel and Revelation

Discussion in 'Traditional Adventists' started by OntheDL, May 5, 2011.

  1. OntheDL

    OntheDL Guest

    I made this chart based on our interpretation of the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. I thought the SDA people might find it useful.

    It's not intended to debate on our interpretation with non-SDAs or those who don't hold to the historicist view.



    [​IMG]
     
  2. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

    Messages:
    13,854
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Seventh-Day-Adventist
    Could you email me this file?
     
  3. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

    Messages:
    13,854
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Seventh-Day-Adventist
    What does "NSL" stand for?
     
  4. OntheDL

    OntheDL Guest

    NSL is national sunday law.

    You can simply right click on the image and 'save as' to save the file to your computer. :)
     
  5. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

    Messages:
    13,854
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Seventh-Day-Adventist
    Yeah, that makes since, for both questions lol
     
  6. OntheDL

    OntheDL Guest

    Oops, 677BC should be for the southern kingdom, not the northern kingdom. I'll correct it.
     
  7. stinsonmarri

    stinsonmarri Regular Member

    Messages:
    880
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Democrat
    Faith:
    Seventh-Day-Adventist
    OntheDL

    You stated

    NSL is national sunday law.

    I looked and could not find how long you have been SDA and I was wonder if you would tell us. I have been one since I was five but was baptized in 1957. Next can you or anyone please show me where in the Bible is states anything about NSL and if you like where does EGW made this claim. Your chart had some issues and that is during the 1844 up until the 1444,000 each of the seals that open were the sealing of Elohim's people and the horses (only four) that represented the earth going through tremendous trauma because of man's sin. The last one was the beginning of the earth dying because man have been poor stewards of our bodies, the earth, and the animals. The fifth seals is the saints who gave up their lives speaking metaphorically for justice and Yahweh tells them to rest for a little while. Yahweh states that in the sixth seal others also will die as martyrs and during the end of this seal the Time of Trouble begins because the 144,000 are being sealed also the great multitude that no man can number. Now I cannot for the life of me see how the leading SDA thinks that after sealing His people would Yahweh turns back to deal with Islam in the Eighth Chapter of Revelation, it just does not make sense? Because He is now opening the Seventh and final seal.

    Now according to prophetic time an half an hour is exactly 30 days and the SDA Commentary does state that something of great importance is about to happen at this time. When you read the Bible prophecies the summary or conclusion comes first than it is broken down how the summary takes place! If you go back to Rev 6:13-17 this is the wrath of both Elohim the Father and Elohim the Lamb. Now Rev Chapter Eight breaks everything down what is going to take place. Rev 8:2-5 allow us to see the prayers of the 144,000 who about work and bring the grealt multitude and the beginning of the Time of Trouble. Dan 12:1-3 Now putting these two books together because they are the same book you will find that at some point some righteous dead and righteous wicked will arise but it doesn't say when!

    Rev 8:5-12 clearly explain that the first four trumpets are the wrath of Elohim and His Son during the Time of Trouble which will last 3 1/2 literal years. Dan 12:4-12; Rev 11:4-6 This wrath will bring on a comet to hit 1/3 of the earth, an asteroid to hit 1/3 of the oceans or sea, a large meteorite that will break up and hit 1/3 of the rivers and waters, and finally meteors will hit a third part of the sun, moon and stars. Now you see how these things will move out of their orbit coming closer to the earth. But wait this is not the worst of it because Rev 8:12 states three woes are given to man on this earth on what is about to happen. I know that most will oppose this but you need to read for yourself that the beast of Daniel 7 will return from Satan's kingdom. Satan never own this earth and only control the weather as prince and not a Supreme Being. I have asked this question over and over what is a bottomless pit or a pit (something dark) that has no bottom (can't be the earth because it has a core or bottom)? Where do you think Satan went when he was kicked out of Heaven because the earth was not here at that time? The beast views and see his new estate Jude 1:6 and all of his host of evil angels. Next question do you honestly think that all of the 1/3 of angels that were kicked out roams here? Well I don't and the Bible clearly states that the beast will receive Satan's power, seat and authority (and authority means over his evil angels), they come back and wreck havoc only on the wicked. The beast wants to be ruler of the earth and Satan the ruler of the universe. This beast/man and his buddy (the false prophet [USA]) will work together. USA will have the world to make an idol to the beast and Satan will deceive the world that this thing can speak. The same way he did Eve with the Serpent in the Garden of Eden. Sunday has alway been a pagan unholy day so it is not about NSL but about who is the true Elohim (the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit) vs. Satan, the Beast/man and the false prophet!

    Once the beast makes war with the papacy (whore/Gentile) and his beloved city that always wanted to rule Jerusalem (Babylon) and this war is Armageddon or WWIII. He tries to go after the saints and Yashua comes back and destroy him without even a fight end of story. This is what you need in your chart. Read Daniel 7:7-28; Chapters 9-10; 11:27-45; Chapter 12; Rev Chapters 4-19

    Oh! I am not in any movements and I am well known by my conference and I live in the country and take care of my mother but I have been writing this and other truth to the conference since I return from Israel in 1984. My pastor of my Church in Atlanta send by first booklet himself to GC and my assistant pastor send it to Andrews. I am not main stream but an SDA by faith and not by doctrine or traditions. I also believe in the 27 principles but even more.

    Blessings,
    stinsonmarri
     
  8. OntheDL

    OntheDL Guest

    Look, I stated this is for SDAs who hold to traditional and historicist view. If you have questions, you can ask. But I'm not interested in nor do I have time for debating. I'm not sure what your issues are and I'm not sure how I can help you. If you are open to it, perhaps I can point you some directions at which chapters of Revelation fall within the chiastic structure.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2011
  9. OntheDL

    OntheDL Guest

  10. stinsonmarri

    stinsonmarri Regular Member

    Messages:
    880
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Democrat
    Faith:
    Seventh-Day-Adventist
    OntheDL:

    You stated:

    Look, I stated this is for SDAs who hold to traditional and historicist view. If you have questions, you can ask. But I'm not interested in nor do I have time for debating. I'm not sure what your issues are and I'm not sure how I can help you. If you are open to it, perhaps I can point you some directions at which chapters of Revelation fall within the chiastic structure.

    Why so angry OntheDL if a person points out your errors? Secondly let me remind you of what you said:

    For SDAs: Prophetic time chart of Daniel and Revelation
    I made this chart based on our interpretation of the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. I thought the SDA people might find it useful.
    It's not intended to debate on our interpretation with non-SDAs or those who don't hold to the historicist view.

    Never once did I read: "this is for SDAs who hold to traditional and historicist view." I am a SDA which I told you for over fifty five years (also attended church school and Adventist Colleges), and I am well verse in Adventism but more so in the Word of the Most High. I have the SDA Commentaries and EGW books on my shelf and through Logos and I also am a Biblical Historian (I hope that cleared up you comment on "chiastic structure"). You also said that you base this chart on interpretation of the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation which the Bible has no private interpretation. EGW said:

    How shall we search the Scriptures in order to understand what they teach? We should come to the investigation of Elohim’s word with a contrite heart, a teachable and prayerful spirit. We are not to think, as did the Jews, that our own ideas and opinions are infallible; nor with the papists, that certain individuals are the sole guardians of truth and knowledge, that men have no right to search the Scriptures for themselves, but must accept the explanations given by the fathers of the church. We should not study the Bible for the purpose of sustaining our preconceived opinions, but with the single object of learning what Elohim has said.
    Some have feared that if in even a single point they acknowledge themselves in error, other minds would be led to doubt the whole theory of truth. Therefore they have felt that investigation should not be permitted, that it would tend to dissension and disunion. But if such is to be the result of investigation, the sooner it comes the better. If there are those whose faith in Elohim’s word will not stand the test of an investigation of the Scriptures, the sooner they are revealed the better; for then the way will be opened to show them their error. We cannot hold that a position once taken, an idea once advocated, is not, under any circumstances, to be relinquished. There is but One who is infallible--He who is the way, the truth, and the life.
    Those who allow prejudice to bar the mind against the reception of truth cannot receive the divine enlightenment. Yet, when a view of Scripture is presented, many do not ask, Is it true--in harmony with Elohim’s word? but, By whom is it advocated? and unless it comes through the very channel that pleases them, they do not accept it. So thoroughly satisfied are they with their own ideas that they will not examine the Scripture evidence with a desire to learn, but refuse to be interested, merely because of their prejudices.
    Yahweh often works where we least expect Him; He surprises us by revealing His power through instruments of His own choice, while He passes by the men to whom we have looked as those through whom light should come. Elohim desires us to receive the truth upon its own merits--because it is truth.
    The Bible must not be interpreted to suit the ideas of men, however long they may have held these ideas to be true. We are not to accept the opinion of commentators as the voice of Elohim; they were erring mortals like ourselves. Elohim has given reasoning powers to us as well as to them. We should make the Bible its own expositor. TM 105, 106

    Elohim’s Spirit has illuminated every page of Holy Writ, but there are those upon whom it makes little impression, because it is imperfectly understood. When the shaking comes, by the introduction of false theories, these surface readers, anchored nowhere, are like shifting sand. They slide into any position to suit the tenor of their feelings of bitterness. . . . Daniel and Revelation must be studied, as well as the other prophecies of the Old and New Testaments. Let there be light, yes, light, in your dwellings. For this we need to pray. The Holy Spirit, shining upon the sacred page, will open our understanding, that we may know what is truth. . . .
    There is need of a much closer study of the word of Elohim; especially should Daniel and the Revelation have attention as never before in the history of our work. We may have less to say in some lines, in regard to the Roman power and the papacy; but we should call attention to what the prophets and apostles have written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of Elohim. The Holy Spirit has so shaped matters, both in the giving of the prophecy and in the events portrayed, as to teach that the human agent is to be kept out of sight, hid in Yashua, and that the Yahweh Elohim of heaven and His law are to be exalted. Read the book of Daniel. Call up, point by point, the history of the kingdoms there represented. Behold statesmen, councils, powerful armies, and see how Elohim wrought to abase the pride of men, and lay human glory in the dust. . . .
    The light that Daniel received from Elohim was given especially for these last days. The visions he saw by the banks of the Ulai and the Hiddekel, the great rivers of Shinar, are now in process of fulfillment, and all the events foretold will soon come to pass. TM 112

    I am sorry that I upset you but I must stand on the Word of the Almighty and to tell you that your chart has some errors that can easily be fixed that's all!


    Blessings,
    stinsonmarri
     
  11. OntheDL

    OntheDL Guest

    I'm not angry when someone points my errors. If someone does so with the bible and I can definitely learn something.

    Unfortunately, from the few posts I saw from you, I don't think it'd be profitable for spiritual growth to engage in it. And apparently your disagreement with historic adventism is deeper rooted than the time and energy I have to address them. It's definitely beyond the purpose I had for this thread.

    I'm not interested in answering wholesale style of rhetorical questions. If you have simple, specific questions on what I posted, you are free to ask. But I didn't intend to debate on the interpretations.



     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2011
  12. stinsonmarri

    stinsonmarri Regular Member

    Messages:
    880
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Democrat
    Faith:
    Seventh-Day-Adventist
    OntheDL:

    You stated:

    I'm not angry when someone points my errors. If someone does so with the bible and I can definitely learn something.

    Can you please explain because I provided you with Scriptures? Dan 7:7-28; 11:27-45; 12:1-3, 4-12; (Read Daniel Chapters 9-10); Jude 1:6; Rev 6:13-17; 8:12; 11:4-6 (I stated to read Rev Chapters 4-19) Personally I do not think you want to learn and not by me but through the Holy Spirit I am just a presenter. Oh I do make mistakes some big one on the forum but I did apologized also.

    Unfortunately, from the few posts I saw from you, I don't think it'd be profitable for spiritual growth to engage in it. And apparently your disagreement with historic adventism is deeper rooted than the time and energy I have to address them. It's definitely beyond the purpose I had for this thread.

    It is all right to disagree with the comments I've made if you can show me my errors with Scriptures instead of unkind words. You are upset with me and you shouldn't be if what you hold is sound doctrine!

    Now the Bible states this:

    Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul. Eze 3:20, 21

    Yahweh thinks my soul is profitable for spiritual growth and I am so glad He saves and not you because boy I would be doomed!!!

    I'm not interested in answering wholesale style of rhetorical questions. If you have simple, specific questions on what I posted, you are free to ask. But I didn't intend to debate on the interpretations.

    Boy what I bite you have and you say you love the Almighty Ones? Wholesale that's rather good I think because Heaven is cheap enough! I did question your chart base on merit and provided you some corrections. It maybe not be apparently what you wanted to read and you have that choice as I have mine. I thought we were in the family of the Most High but I guess not right? If you get so upset because someone present to you truth how can what you say be spiritual? My mother always told me that a hit dog will holler and evidently you feel wounded-why? You could have just stated that you did not agree and provided me answers and I would have either recanted my position or provided you with more texts but it should have been done with love and kindness and also humbleness but not like this. You know we are in an open forum and non-SDA see how we act toward each other and say wow look how they treat their own folks what will you say then I wonder? The Bible states by our fruits we are known.

    Blessings,
    stinsonmarri
     
  13. OntheDL

    OntheDL Guest

    Here are 1 chiasm for Daniel and 1 for Revelation.

    The chiastic structure of the stories of the book of Daniel.

    A. Dan 1: Physical and spiritual preparation for the 2nd coming
    ----- B. Dan 2: prayer led to the understanding of the dream/vision
    ---------- C. Dan 3: Test of faith: the golden image
    --------------- D. Dan 5: the fall of Babylon
    ---------- C. Dan 6: Test of faith: lions’ den
    ----- B. Dan 9: Prayer led to the understanding of the prophecy
    A. Dan 10: Vision of the messiah’s coming

    Hebrew literature employs writing style that goes beyond parallelism. Chiasm is a style of Hebrew writing that is evident throughout the bible. Chiastic structure resembles the Greek letter 'CHI'.

    [​IMG]
    Like a symphony, it builds up and builds up to a crescendo, then in like manner but in reserve order it returns to where it started. We see the crescendo/the central theme of the stories of the book of Daniel is the Fall of Babylon.


    The Chiastic structure of the Sanctuary scene of Revelation.

    A. Rev 1:7 2nd coming Court
    ------B. Rev 4 & 5 Inauguration Sanctuary
    ------------C. Rev 8 Intercession Holy Place
    ------------------D. Rev 11 Judgement Most Holy Place
    ------------C. Rev 15 Cessation Holy Place
    ------B. Rev 19 Absence Sanctuary
    A. Rev 21 2nd coming Court
    [​IMG]
    In this chiasm, we see Jesus's ministry. He walks from the court westward to the sanctuary, to the Holy Place, then into the inner most apartment. Then He walks eastward from the Most Holy Place to Holy place, back to the outer court. The central theme of Revelation here is Judgment. The book of Revelation is actually written in a 3-dimensional chiasm. But this simpler 2-D chiasm does a very job of placing every theme/vision of Revelation in the correct position of the correct arm of the chiasm. This structure rejects arbitrary interpretations and confines them to the sanctuary interpretation.
     
  14. stinsonmarri

    stinsonmarri Regular Member

    Messages:
    880
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Democrat
    Faith:
    Seventh-Day-Adventist
    OntheDL:

    When I took read what you said about chiastic structure I understood:

    "chiasm is a repetition of similar ideas in the reverse sequence."

    I have the SDA Commentaries and EGW books on my shelf and through Logos and I also am a Biblical Historian. Which are similar ideas that can be placed in a reverse sequence especially when you used the word historicist which is under the control of Yahweh's word and not man's on interpretation or views! But, instead you come out with the Greek paganistic
    "traditional and historicist view," which is not a part of the SDA belief at all. It appears you accepted the thoughts first started around the 1700's thru the 1800's by both John Jebb and Thomas Boys and now many modern scholars have accepted the work of Lund's articles. Because of these men views a whole new schism have started that is trace back to Greece as Yahweh warned would happen.

    As I asked you how long you've been a SDA and you have not given an answer and it is clear to me why because what you just provideded is unreal. Just to let you know that I do understand as a Biblical Historian about the Greek Chi this was also used by the Romans:

    . . . The Greeks borrowed the samekh around 900 BC and named it “Chi.” The ancient Greeks utilized their newly acquired phonological element to simplify the digraph (a pair of letters representing a single speech sound) /ks/ – used most prominently throughout the western regions of Greece. The Romans later adopted the ‘x’ sound from the Chalcidian alphabet, a non-Ionic Greek alphabet, and borrowed the ‘Chi’ symbol, consisting of two diagonally crossed strokes, from the Greek alphabet to denote the letter /x/ as well as to identify the Roman numeral X or “10.” So to sum up: The Romans took the /x/ sound from one alphabet (Chalcidian) and combined it with the ‘Chi’ symbol from another alphabet (Greek) and thus X was born.[Dictionary.com

    The samekh was the alphabet of the Phoenicians who by the way were Canaanites and is the originator of the alphabet symbols we used today! The T X and the S however have a significant relation throughout history as pagan symbols.

    The word Chrestos existed ages before Christianity was heard of. It is found used, from the fifth century B.C., by Herodotus, by Aeschylus and other classical Greek writers, the meaning of it being applied to both things and persons.

    Thus in Aeschylus (Cho. 901) we read of pythochresta the "oracles delivered by a Pythian God" (Greek-English Lexicon) through a pythoness; and Pythochrestos is the nominative singular of an adjective derived from chrao (Eurip. Ion, 1218). The later meanings coined freely from this primitive application, are numerous and varied. Pagan classics expressed more than one idea by the verb [chraomai] "consulting an oracle;" for it also means "fated," doomed by an oracle, in the sense of a sacrificial victim to its decree, or -- "to the WORD;" as chresterion is not only "the seat of an oracle" but also "an offering to, or for, the oracle.'' Chrestes is one who expounds or explains oracles, "a prophet, a soothsayer;" and chresterios is one who belongs to, or is in the service of, an oracle, a god, or a "Master;" this Canon Farrar's efforts notwithstanding. Studies in Occultism by H. P. Blavatsky Theosophical University Press Online Edition

    In the Egyptian churches, the cross was a pagan symbol of life, borrowed by the Christians and interpreted in the pagan manner.

    After the supposed "vision of the cross" that Constantine witnessed, he promoted another variety called the Chi-Rho, or Labarum cross. This has been explained away as representing the first letters of the title of Christ, i.e., "Christos (CH and R, or in Greek, X and P). The identical symbol, however, has been found inscribed on rocks dating from 2500 BC, being interpreted as "a combination of the two Sun-symbols." It was also used on coins of Ptolemeus III from 247-222 BC.

    The labarum was also an emblem of the Chaldean sky god and has the definition "Everlasting Father Sun." Encyclopaedia Britannica

    Gen 1:14 commanded by Yahweh about signs and appointed time before sin and Satan comes along and invented with man this false concept of symbols. Symbols that are supposed to be secretly hidden in the Bible to decipher something that Satan had used and deceive man to believe a lie. Just like Satan who wanted to be like the Most High and to understand the mystery of creation his place this same thirst upon man. Yahweh warned man not in divinations that deal with all the mysteries symbols. (Lev 20:6; Deut 13:1, 2; 2Ch 33:6; Isa 19:3)

    . . . The Grecian peninsula and islands which would make themselves felt throughout the world down to this very day.

    The most notable contribution of Grecian civilization, however, was that of the philosophers. Many of them were profoundly religious in their thinking as they sought a unifying principal behind all phenomena. As a study of ultimate reality and the causes and principals which underlie all thinking and being, Greek philosophy differs from theology by ignoring all dogma and by dealing with speculation, not faith.By Carl Herman Voss Excerpt from Living Religions of the World, Prometheus Books (Read Eph 1:9; Col 2:2)

    The chart to you first presented had merit to the Church that was given a message to preach the gospels. But many have come into the SDA Church with hidden agenda and compromising with Greek mysticism. If Yahweh wanted us to read some hidden symbols He would have clearly spoke about it and it definitely would not be the Chi!

    And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isa 8:19, 20

    All scripture is given by inspiration of Elohim, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2Ti 3:16

    I do not see any command to search for hidden symbols but to read the Bible and the prophecies, mysteries, and symbols that are given by the gift of the Holy Spirit who will lead us into truth. I am praying for you to follow the Holy Spirit and not the traditions and doctrines of man!

    Blessings,
    stinsonmarri
     
  15. Joe67

    Joe67 Newbie

    Messages:
    1,266
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    OntheDL,

    He who prophesies again has eaten the little book and it has been sweet in his mouth and bitter in his belly.

    In Revelation 9 the first group just sting with their tail and this torments, but does not bring the necessary death in the Lord. The second group sting with their mouth and their tail and bring the necessary death in the Lord through repentance for idolatry and sorcery and vain imaginations.

    Those who did not die in the Lord did not repent and when we see them again they are riding on the back of the beast, fornicating with the kings of the earth. But even the apostle John admired this woman with a great admiration.

    Joe
     
  16. EastCoastRemnant

    EastCoastRemnant Not A Faceless Avatar

    Messages:
    2,888
    Likes Received:
    11
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Seventh-Day-Adventist
    I was just chuckling to myself as I was reading the exchange between Onthe DL and Stinson... sounds like a couple of pharisees debating scripture at their intellectual learned level.... chiastic structure, samekh, labarum... :confused: :scratch: :sleep:
     
Loading...