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Female pastors (limited role)

DragonFox91

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"I've been struggling w/ this issue. My family's denomination accepts women pastors. The one at the church we attend is only an associate pastor, which I guess I'm fine w/. My concern is the denomination as a whole would allow her be the head pastor.
I also attend the Baptist church w/ friends. They are a lot more strict on this. So I'm having to reconcile my family's faith w/ that what I read in the Bible & what is taught at the Baptist church."

I am still struggling w/ this.
 
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65James

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While I agree with Paul overall command that women as a whole should not usurp authority over men in the Church, I Corinthians 14:34-35; I Timothy 2:9-16. We have even Paul himself challenging this view:
1) I commend unto Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
2) That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.
Romans 16:1-2

Paul in this last chapter of Romans is actually endorsing a woman for some type of ministry. We can argue over whatever it was, but they are commanded to assist her which seems to put her in some authority.
We find that Jesus first revealed Himself to women to be His 1st witnesses because of their total devotion to Him, Matthew 28:8-10; under the OT law that Paul spoke of this is considered foolish because women were not thought to be a good standard of witness. Read Paul statement in Galatians 3:28; and you will see that in Christ Jesus; he honored everyone.
The Book of Hebrews according to most scholars is consider unclear as to the author. Many believe it to be Paul or some other Apostle. But I agreed with many scholars who think it is Priscilla, the wife of Aquila who wrote this Book. These both are said to have taught Apollos the way of God more perfectly, Acts 18:26
No I don’t think women as a whole should take authority over men. But the OT and NT shows many a time where women of faith are called to great Ministry for God. Sometimes it is judgment on us men for our lack of faith, Judges 4:8-9.
 
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65James

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I can recall while in the US Army (yes I was in the Air Guard then had a real say DAH! moment and joined the Army). Stationed over in Germany getting a ride back to the barracks with two female Missionaries it was very embarrassing for me. These two ladies were school teachers at our church (IFBC) driving a van with the Church‘s name on it. I kid you not every guy we drove by they both made cat calls out to, I duck down in back and hid. I believe this is what Paul referred to when forbidding women to preach.
Then my brother got me to attend a Nazarene Church while in Kansas, a class I sat in had an Associate Pastor Mickey Zorectic (if I remember her last name right). I would be like Paul was like with Phebe when describing her because I can nearly guarantee she never had any blood on her hands, Ezekiel 3:18. She did everything to honor Paul saying in Romans 10:9-15; with her beautiful feet.

I think as a whole women should not preach, but God calls some to His ministry because they are so gifted Romans 11:29. Also while God seeks for men, He can’t always find us, Ezekiel 22:30; when a godly woman is there I think God will send her.
 
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David Lamb

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While I agree with Paul overall command that women as a whole should not usurp authority over men in the Church, I Corinthians 14:34-35; I Timothy 2:9-16. We have even Paul himself challenging this view:
1) I commend unto Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
2) That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.
Romans 16:1-2
But saying that Phoebe was a servant of the church, a succourer of many, etc. says nothing about her exercising authority over men.
 
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bbbbbbb

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But saying that Phoebe was a servant of the church, a succourer of many, etc. says nothing about her exercising authority over men.
The problem is that the word "servant" is diakonos, the same word which is also transliterated as "deacon" in other passages of the New Testament. Literally, the word simply means servant and is used in relation to all sorts of individuals who serve in one capacity or another. It is also one of the two offices of the church as defined by Paul in I Timothy 3.

I Timothy 3:8 In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.

11 In the same way, the women are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.


There is nothing in the passage to exclude women from the office and, if verse 11 is considered to be part of the qualifications for being a deacon, then there is no doubt that women held the office. The problem comes in defining precisely what deacons do. Do they exercise authority over anyone? In many churches the established hierarchy is hiring a professional pastor who is under the authority of a board of deacons, or, sometimes they are called elders. Typically, however, the pastor is considered to be the elder and the board of directors are deacons.

This is biblically untenable if, in fact, deacons are servants who perform their duties under the authority of elders. Thus, it is quite reasonable to have women deacons without contradicting Paul's injunctions that women are not to exercise authority over men.
 
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David Lamb

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The problem is that the word "servant" is diakonos, the same word which is also transliterated as "deacon" in other passages of the New Testament. Literally, the word simply means servant and is used in relation to all sorts of individuals who serve in one capacity or another. It is also one of the two offices of the church as defined by Paul in I Timothy 3.

I Timothy 3:8 In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.

11 In the same way, the women are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.


There is nothing in the passage to exclude women from the office and, if verse 11 is considered to be part of the qualifications for being a deacon, then there is no doubt that women held the office. The problem comes in defining precisely what deacons do. Do they exercise authority over anyone? In many churches the established hierarchy is hiring a professional pastor who is under the authority of a board of deacons, or, sometimes they are called elders. Typically, however, the pastor is considered to be the elder and the board of directors are deacons.

This is biblically untenable if, in fact, deacons are servants who perform their duties under the authority of elders. Thus, it is quite reasonable to have women deacons without contradicting Paul's injunctions that women are not to exercise authority over men.
What you say about "diakonos" is of course true. However, context is important, and the very next verse in 1 Timothy 3 says:

“Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.” (1Ti 3:12 NKJV) (my emphasis).
 
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bbbbbbb

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What you say about "diakonos" is of course true. However, context is important, and the very next verse in 1 Timothy 3 says:

“Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.” (1Ti 3:12 NKJV) (my emphasis).
Quite true. There are various ways of understanding that statement, as follow:

1. Strictly speaking, deacons must be men who are married to one wife. Some would say, that they cannot have been divorced and remarried to one wife, and others would also stress that even if his wife were to pass away he could not remarry, nor could a widower be qualified, even though he had been monogamous.
2. These men must have children living at home. They cannot be married and childless or even having one child. If the children have grown up and left his household, then he is no longer qualified to be a deacon.
3. The wife and children must be faithful Christians who are obedient to their father, who is ruling them well.
4. In addition, all other aspects of the house, such as the duties of servants and slaves must be under the capable management of the deacon.
5. Some would say that verse 12 merely stresses the prohibition of a polygamist for becoming a deacon. The emphasis, then, is on one wife only. These folks might also eliminate men who have had more than one wife in their life, as in the case of remarried divorcees or widowers. It might also eliminate widowers and bachelors.
6. Verse 11 poses a bit of a stumbling block. Paul could have very simply called the women "wives" rather than "women" to stress that he is addressing the wife of the deacon. In fact, he could have said, "The deacon's wife . . ." Instead it is not definite that the women of verse 11 have any relationship to the man in verse 12. In fact, verse 11 is somewhat redundant, if the wife is included in the household of the deacon in verse 12. Of course it is obvious that the deacon's wife would be under his capable management in verse 12.
7. If the women in verse 11 are not the wife of the deacon in verse 12, but are deaconesses (as some translations have it) then how does verse 12 apply to them? There are several possible answers. The first would be that deaconesses also must be monogamous (perhaps not being remarried divorcees or remarried widows or even widows). Others might say that the verses stand apart from each other, verse 11 applying to deaconesses and verse 12 applying to deacons. Another possibility would be that a man married to a deaconess would still be ruling his household well and his wife would not be usurping his authority.

The bottom line, in my view, is the role of deacons is not clearly spelled out. We know that elders are to oversee the church. Deacons, on the other hand, are merely servants of the church, under the oversight and direction of the elders. They have, biblically, no more authority than a common servant or slave in a household. They simply carry out the work assigned to them by the elders. Whether only men can do that or both men and women can work is open to discussion.

One thing that is not at all in scripture is the idea that deacons are a board of directors in the church corporation with authority to hire and fire professional and non-professional staff members.
 
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