Feel sick with the world...

[AskTheFamily]

My uncle just got free from prison and was tortured for 23 days straight for nothing but protesting for the rights of people in Bahrain. I was just thinking about Eudomonist definition of morality, and that the evil would be measured to be nothing but going against their own well being and not be fulfilled with a certain happiness and satisfaction. When I think of their evil, I'm so raged, and I want some sort of justice to be meant out for them. But then my anger goes to not only to that government, but also the greater powers like USA not condemning the regime and even being an ally. They focus on Iran because Iran is against their interest, but at least Iran has the support of the people, at least it respects it's citizens, at least Iran is acting according to what they believe is right and true. US could easily remove the evil dictator regime in Bahrain but they don't do it. They have the power to stop evil, but they ignore the plights of the people, and do nothing. And the people of US feel they have a great country, which to me, is really one of most hypocritical countries to ever exist. The people of US blind themselves to the hypocritical nature of their regime. People just want to pride themselves as a people and blind themselves to their own evils. We talk about compassion and love, but their is hardly any compassion and love in humans. They care so little but about themselves. If it extends caring past family, it might go to caring about your own country, but hardly anyone cares about other nations. The people of US have in their power to solve so much of the issues of the world but they do hardly anything to alleviate suffering. When theodicy is described, one of the justifications of evil in the world is the sense of compassion it should create in humans...but people hardly care...US wants to emphasize on what Iran does to one man as opposed to what Bahrain regime does to hundreds of their citizens, torturing them and raping them..

No intead it considers Bahrain an ally - Saudi Arabia whom brought troops their to suppress the people as an ally -

In all honesty, if their was justice to be exacted on humanity for how they dealt with the noble light God entrusted them, we mostly should be tortured in agonizing pain and exacted suferring for how little we cared and how self-centered we are. Nationalism and partisanship blinds people - and makes them hypocrites to their own values. All this is part of self-love - which to eudomanist definition - is suppose to be a human virtue.

I'm thinking why? Why all this? Why such sorry state of humanity? If sufferring and evil was suppose to bring virtue, it sure hasn't done a good job for so much of humanity. So much of humanity is cold and when a injustice happens elsewhere in the world, they hardly care and do nothing about it. It's brought the monsters in humans as they ignore the well-being of others and carry on their selfish interest.

I truly don't believe in that self-seeking happiness morality definition talked about in the other, it actually makes me sick to the bone. That's really the essence of evil, people being so self-centered and blinding themselves to their own evil and their countries evil, by self love.

Religion just furthers this problem by creating this false sense of virtue - as if having pleased God and fulfilled the most important of what he wills of us - yet really just giving more into this false sense of self-love, pride with a people you relate to, while ignoring the plight of others and the problems that we can alleviate. By accepting a trinity concept and believing God killed himself/son to save only those whom believe he did such, people feel they have fulfilled the most important thing God wills of humans - which belittles the self-centered and partisan self-loving blindness people are in, which makes them ignore their duties towards others. They feel they have done something so great and part of something so grand by believing in a religion and being of part of partisanship, while they ignore the light of God within themselves that calls them to true greatness. They emphasize so much on faith, and not on actions. It's all about believing something - instead of what you do that defines you.

Maybe I expect too much of humanity - but I'm really disappointed. I hope one day people in the future will advance past all this, be a better world, and look back at us, and be sick to the bone of how selfish, uncaring, and hypocritical we were - and put a much higher standard of morality as a standard for the individual and nation.

When the world I hope to be comes to place, I hope they look at us in disgust, by how better they will be as humans.

 

[Erfan777]

My uncle just got free from prison and was tortured for 23 days straight for nothing but protesting for the rights of people in Bahrain. I was just thinking about Eudomonist definition of morality, and that the evil would be measured to be nothing but going against their own well being and not be fulfilled with a certain happiness and satisfaction. When I think of their evil, I'm so raged, and I want some sort of justice to be meant out for them. But then my anger goes to not only to that government, but also the greater powers like USA not condemning the regime and even being an ally. They focus on Iran because Iran is against their interest, but at least Iran has the support of the people, at least it respects it's citizens, at least Iran is acting according to what they believe is right and true. US could easily remove the evil dictator regime in Bahrain but they don't do it. They have the power to stop evil, but they ignore the plights of the people, and do nothing. And the people of US feel they have a great country, which to me, is really one of most hypocritical countries to ever exist. The people of US blind themselves to the hypocritical nature of their regime. People just want to pride themselves as a people and blind themselves to their own evils. We talk about compassion and love, but their is hardly any compassion and love in humans. They care so little but about themselves. If it extends caring past family, it might go to caring about your own country, but hardly anyone cares about other nations. The people of US have in their power to solve so much of the issues of the world but they do hardly anything to alleviate suffering. When theodicy is described, one of the justifications of evil in the world is the sense of compassion it should create in humans...but people hardly care...US wants to emphasize on what Iran does to one man as opposed to what Bahrain regime does to hundreds of their citizens, torturing them and raping them..

No intead it considers Bahrain an ally - Saudi Arabia whom brought troops their to suppress the people as an ally -

In all honesty, if their was justice to be exacted on humanity for how they dealt with the noble light God entrusted them, we mostly should be tortured in agonizing pain and exacted suferring for how little we cared and how self-centered we are. Nationalism and partisanship blinds people - and makes them hypocrites to their own values. All this is part of self-love - which to eudomanist definition - is suppose to be a human virtue.

I'm thinking why? Why all this? Why such sorry state of humanity? If sufferring and evil was suppose to bring virtue, it sure hasn't done a good job for so much of humanity. So much of humanity is cold and when a injustice happens elsewhere in the world, they hardly care and do nothing about it. It's brought the monsters in humans as they ignore the well-being of others and carry on their selfish interest.

I truly don't believe in that self-seeking happiness morality definition talked about in the other, it actually makes me sick to the bone. That's really the essence of evil, people being so self-centered and blinding themselves to their own evil and their countries evil, by self love.

Religion just furthers this problem by creating this false sense of virtue - as if having pleased God and fulfilled the most important of what he wills of us - yet really just giving more into this false sense of self-love, pride with a people you relate to, while ignoring the plight of others and the problems that we can alleviate. By accepting a trinity concept and believing God killed himself/son to save only those whom believe he did such, people feel they have fulfilled the most important thing God wills of humans - which belittles the self-centered and partisan self-loving blindness people are in, which makes them ignore their duties towards others. They feel they have done something so great and part of something so grand by believing in a religion and being of part of partisanship, while they ignore the light of God within themselves that calls them to true greatness. They emphasize so much on faith, and not on actions. It's all about believing something - instead of what you do that defines you.

Maybe I expect too much of humanity - but I'm really disappointed. I hope one day people in the future will advance past all this, be a better world, and look back at us, and be sick to the bone of how selfish, uncaring, and hypocritical we were - and put a much higher standard of morality as a standard for the individual and nation.

When the world I hope to be comes to place, I hope they look at us in disgust, by how better they will be as humans.

I am sorry to hear about your uncle. To think that US can help bring justice is a joke (no offence to any US citizens), history repeats itself. There isn't much benefit for US by taking serious action against Saudi and Bahrain except losing two potential allies in the middle-east who are also oppose to Iran's nuclear ambition.

People in the future for sure will look at us as a bunch of barbarians just like we do now about people in the past. As long as human beings are divided (whether by country, race, religion etc) such barbaric acts will continue.

 

[AskTheFamily]

I am sorry to hear about your uncle. To think that US can help bring justice is a joke (no offence to any US citizens), history repeats itself. There isn't much benefit for US by taking serious action against Saudi and Bahrain except losing two potential allies in the middle-east who are also oppose to Iran's nuclear ambition.

People in the future for sure will look at us as a bunch of barbarians just like we do now about people in the past. As long as human beings are divided (whether by country, race, religion etc) such barbaric acts will continue.

Thanks for that. You know when it's a family member that suffers, you then really feel it more, and you feel motive to change the world but then feel helpless. I felt helpless to do anything but write this frustrated post. We use to do protests but it got no media attention. I'm hoping the damage done to my Uncle is not permanent but I don't know if it is or isn't.

 

[simonpeter]

Human beings are essentially sinful and do evil deeds - for money, power etc. The common man does it on one level, the political on a much higher level. That's all.

 

[sbvd]

Thanks for that. You know when it's a family member that suffers, you then really feel it more, and you feel motive to change the world but then feel helpless. I felt helpless to do anything but write this frustrated post. We use to do protests but it got no media attention. I'm hoping the damage done to my Uncle is not permanent but I don't know if it is or isn't.

As I worked with homeless children, I felt the same, like if nobody cared. Part of the problem lies, I believe, in the practical tasks. In other words, often we know next to nothing about marketing.

 

[Eudaimonist]

My uncle just got free from prison and was tortured for 23 days straight for nothing but protesting for the rights of people in Bahrain.

I'm truly sorry to hear of what happened to your uncle and what is going on in Bahrain.

We talk about compassion and love, but their is hardly any compassion and love in humans. They care so little but about themselves.

If I could snap my fingers and make all of that injustice go away, I would. Please don't assume that governments represent the wishes of all of humanity.

Nationalism and partisanship blinds people - and makes them hypocrites to their own values. All this is part of self-love - which to eudomanist definition - is suppose to be a human virtue.

Self-love is a human virtue, but all human virtues require understanding. Without understanding, there is no skill, and clearly these people lack skill in identifying and looking after their own best interests.

I hope one day people in the future will advance past all this, be a better world, and look back at us, and be sick to the bone of how selfish, uncaring, and hypocritical we were - and put a much higher standard of morality as a standard for the individual and nation.

I hope for the same thing. That higher standard will be human flourishing.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

The uncaring world has just awarded Nobel Peace Prizes to three women for their efforts in the "non-violent struggle for the safety of women and for women's rights to full participation in peace-building work".

BBC News - Nobel Peace Prize shared between three women


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[TG123]

My uncle just got free from prison and was tortured for 23 days straight for nothing but protesting for the rights of people in Bahrain. I was just thinking about Eudomonist definition of morality, and that the evil would be measured to be nothing but going against their own well being and not be fulfilled with a certain happiness and satisfaction. When I think of their evil, I'm so raged, and I want some sort of justice to be meant out for them. But then my anger goes to not only to that government, but also the greater powers like USA not condemning the regime and even being an ally. They focus on Iran because Iran is against their interest, but at least Iran has the support of the people, at least it respects it's citizens, at least Iran is acting according to what they believe is right and true. US could easily remove the evil dictator regime in Bahrain but they don't do it. They have the power to stop evil, but they ignore the plights of the people, and do nothing. And the people of US feel they have a great country, which to me, is really one of most hypocritical countries to ever exist. The people of US blind themselves to the hypocritical nature of their regime. People just want to pride themselves as a people and blind themselves to their own evils. We talk about compassion and love, but their is hardly any compassion and love in humans. They care so little but about themselves. If it extends caring past family, it might go to caring about your own country, but hardly anyone cares about other nations. The people of US have in their power to solve so much of the issues of the world but they do hardly anything to alleviate suffering. When theodicy is described, one of the justifications of evil in the world is the sense of compassion it should create in humans...but people hardly care...US wants to emphasize on what Iran does to one man as opposed to what Bahrain regime does to hundreds of their citizens, torturing them and raping them..

No intead it considers Bahrain an ally - Saudi Arabia whom brought troops their to suppress the people as an ally -

In all honesty, if their was justice to be exacted on humanity for how they dealt with the noble light God entrusted them, we mostly should be tortured in agonizing pain and exacted suferring for how little we cared and how self-centered we are. Nationalism and partisanship blinds people - and makes them hypocrites to their own values. All this is part of self-love - which to eudomanist definition - is suppose to be a human virtue.

I'm thinking why? Why all this? Why such sorry state of humanity? If sufferring and evil was suppose to bring virtue, it sure hasn't done a good job for so much of humanity. So much of humanity is cold and when a injustice happens elsewhere in the world, they hardly care and do nothing about it. It's brought the monsters in humans as they ignore the well-being of others and carry on their selfish interest.

I truly don't believe in that self-seeking happiness morality definition talked about in the other, it actually makes me sick to the bone. That's really the essence of evil, people being so self-centered and blinding themselves to their own evil and their countries evil, by self love.

Religion just furthers this problem by creating this false sense of virtue - as if having pleased God and fulfilled the most important of what he wills of us - yet really just giving more into this false sense of self-love, pride with a people you relate to, while ignoring the plight of others and the problems that we can alleviate. By accepting a trinity concept and believing God killed himself/son to save only those whom believe he did such, people feel they have fulfilled the most important thing God wills of humans - which belittles the self-centered and partisan self-loving blindness people are in, which makes them ignore their duties towards others. They feel they have done something so great and part of something so grand by believing in a religion and being of part of partisanship, while they ignore the light of God within themselves that calls them to true greatness. They emphasize so much on faith, and not on actions. It's all about believing something - instead of what you do that defines you.

Maybe I expect too much of humanity - but I'm really disappointed. I hope one day people in the future will advance past all this, be a better world, and look back at us, and be sick to the bone of how selfish, uncaring, and hypocritical we were - and put a much higher standard of morality as a standard for the individual and nation.

When the world I hope to be comes to place, I hope they look at us in disgust, by how better they will be as humans.

AskTheFamily,

I am extremely sorry to hear about your uncle and what he went through. The horrors he must have suffered and the pain you must be feeling as a family member who is affected by such a crime is not something I can even begin to understand. I admire his courage and steadfastness, the fact alone he survived that shows a lot about his character. I share your outrage at the governments in the West who close their eyes to Bahrain's and Saudi Arabia's barbaric treatment of the Shias, and their hypocritical and cynical claims to be 'promoting democracy' while they give arms to psychopaths like those who have harmed your uncle. I also share your disgust at the fact that there are so many people who are indifferent to the suffering of others and injustices that are being perpetrated.

In Matthew 25:31-49, Jesus makes it explicitly clear what will happen to those who chose to close their eyes to poverty and injustice. They will be told that they saw Him sick and hungry and in prison and naked and that they did nothing to help. They will be pleading their case, stating they never saw Him in need, as they are cast into hell. They will be told that what they did not do for them they did not do for Him.

I have to disagree with you that believing in the idea of the Trinity = ignoring the plight of others. I admit I haven't done enough in my life to work against injustice and poverty, but my volunteering and activism in the inner city where I live and my volunteerin work with Christian Peacemaker Teams and International Solidarity Movement in Palestine (where I was beaten unconscious by 3 masked Israeli settlers who used metal pipes to bust my nose and then pound my back, which sent me to the hospital for surgery for documenting abuses perpetrated against Palestinian villagers along with a friend whose leg they almost broke with a stick) and No More Deaths in Arizona on the US-Mexico border helping undocumented migrants not die of heat and dehuydration in the 40 plus (Celsius) degree weather was inspired solely by my faith.
If you are interested, check out the blogs I maintained when I was serving. Their purpose is not to document my work but the human rights crisis and injustices that are being perpetrated in the West Bank and Southern Arizona and Northern Mexico.

Living Stones
North of the Border

I haven't done much and intend to be doing more, but if you want to read of 'trinitarians' (I just call them Christians) who have done much more, google up Archbishop Romero, Dorothy Stang, Shane Claiborne, John Fife, Maximilian Kolbe... many more. Learn about what Mennonite Central Committee or Christian Peacemaker Teams is, both groups are composed of Christians, most if not all of them adhering to the Trinity doctrine.

I do agree though that many Christians in the West (including many trinitarians) are smug and self-centered and don't care about the suffering of the poor in their own country and cities even, and even less about in other parts of the world. I can say though the same is true for 'non-trinitarians' like the Jehovah's Witnesses. I have had a nice couple visit me several times last year, before my trip to Arizona, trying to convert me to their theology. I encouraged them to get involved in an event being organized against drone strikes against Pakistan and they said their organization does not get involved in 'politics'.

Many Christians believe that since Jesus will come back soon, that somehow absolves them of their Biblical responsibility to work for justice and peace and to help alleviate suffering of the poor. It is ridiculous and unScriptural. We are commanded to both preach the Gospel and to work against injustice and wrongs in our world. These 2 are to be done in tandem, not opposite from each other.

I want to apologize for not doing more with my life to help victims of injustice like your uncle, and for the Christians who do nothing.
Finally, I think Iran is more of democracy that Saudi Arabia, but I don't see how it respects its citizens when it gunned them down on the streets for protesting in 2009.

I will be praying for your uncle, and wish there was more I could do for him.

 

[Arthra]

Ask the family,

You seem to have a great skill in expressing yourself and I pray that it will help alleviate in some way the stress of your situation..the suffering of your uncle..at the same time I have a comment about your statement:

Religion just furthers this problem by creating this false sense of virtue - as if having pleased God and fulfilled the most important of what he wills of us - yet really just giving more into this false sense of self-love, pride with a people you relate to, while ignoring the plight of others and the problems that we can alleviate.

It may not be for you that religion can alleviate some of your suffering but for many it can and does..but not necessarily the formal aspects of religion that you are likely most familiar with. It also may be though for you a need to displace some of your anger on religion.

In my view religion does not "ignore the plight of others" ...some aspects of formal religion may seem to do this but the concern for others and for alleviating suffering is a central theme of much sacred literature..

Worldly friends, seeking their own good, appear to love one the other, whereas the true Friend hath loved and doth love you for your own sakes; indeed He hath suffered for your guidance countless afflictions.

~ Baha'u'llah, The Persian Hidden Words

Wishing you well and that you and your family will be able to find peace.

 

[durangodawood]

...No intead it considers Bahrain an ally - Saudi Arabia whom brought troops their to suppress the people as an ally -
...
Maybe I expect too much of humanity - but I'm really disappointed. I hope one day people in the future will advance past all this, be a better world, and look back at us, and be sick to the bone of how selfish, uncaring, and hypocritical we were - and put a much higher standard of morality as a standard for the individual and nation....

For the USA, and for most countries really, principled stands are viewed as a luxury. We choose our allies based on material interests, not human justice. The giant machine needs the oil to flow. Basically, the USA will turn a blind eye to A LOT of torture and misery abroad to prevent $5 or 6$ gasoline at home.
.

 

[AskTheFamily]

It may not be for you that religion can alleviate some of your suffering but for many it can and does..but not necessarily the formal aspects of religion that you are likely most familiar with. It also may be though for you a need to displace some of your anger on religion.

I'm not blaming religion, I'm just saying it further complicates the problem, it's not the cause of the problem, with the problem their, it makes it worse by adding these feelings that they are part of such a higher thing and great thing, that it belittles their faults and their inaction and their own evils, this is part of what religion does, but I am not saying religion is the problem, I say it further complicates by doing this. It complicates the problem already there. It creates this false sense of over-achievement for just belief.

Saudi Arabia - they supported suppression of Shias, so they were for Bahraini government - what do you think makes these people feel they are great people? By being part of a religion. By condemning "bida" and people asking God through saints, they think they part of so great thing, in serving God and pleasing him- while they ignore their faults and how they don't support the rights of the people. The GDP of Saudi Arabia use to be the same as North America or even higher, now it's about the same as Iran. But no let the government spent on all this money on passing free-Qurans to get this nice image of promoting Quran, instead of giving more money to the people, creating a better economy, no it's religion over people. They are vitrous even if they support regimes that torture people, as long as they keeping teaching to obey "Quran " and "Sunnah".

The guilt Christians would get of their own people not helping peolpe they can easily help and support, is alleviated by that they accepted God sacrificing himself/son to save them, and they part of such a great thing, that their faults are belittled by having already achieved "the only way to father"...they feel they have achieved the only way..which is the biggest thing they can achieve...I'm not saying this implies they should not care, I'm saying if further complicates it.

The truth is religion although values caring for others, makes people feel they achieved something so high and noble, that it covers their faults and apathy for others. They have done the most ultimate thing they can do, by accepting "God's love" by sacrificing himself, and achieved God's ultimate gift...

This is not because religion is the problem, it just religion furthers the self-love admiration mentality of people. It adds to it. It furthers the apathy towards others by focusing on fulfillment in religion.

I hope you understand my point. It further complicates it. It's not the cause, but it further complicates a bad mentality to begin with.

 

[AskTheFamily]

I have to disagree with you that believing in the idea of the Trinity = ignoring the plight of others.

See my post to Arthra. Religion teachings caring for others, but part of the self-admiration mentality, it further complicates and blinds them to their own faults or belittles it that it's seen as trivial. It's not the cause in itself, but with the problem already there, the self-admiration mentality, it makes it worse. I guess I was wrong to state it was a cause, but what I meant is that it causes this with the problems already there.

The problem is their is already this self-admiration self-love thinking that blinds people to their faults, and people think by accepting trinity - they achieved "the only way to the father" already - they have achieved the way towards God, and this means they fulfilled their greater purpose, so that whatever they fail of the duty towards others, it's belittled. I'm not saying this implies they should not care or they belittle their duties, but already not caring and belittling their duty towards others, and being blind by self-love and pride, it adds to problem and causes you to not care further. It becomes cause with a problem of a mentality already there.

I didn't say religion = ignoring plight of others, I meant it further the complicates a bad mentality of people. Without the bad mentality, the religion would not cause that, with the bad mentality, religion further complicates the problems already there. It only becomes a cause with the context of the problem already there.

And thanks for your kind words.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Actually, a sense of low self-worth is far more detrimental to being a kind and empathetic human being than the "self-admiration mentality" could ever be.

Heck, even narcissist personality disorders are based on a lack of self-respect: NPD is considered to result from a person's belief that they are flawed in a way that makes them fundamentally unacceptable to others. This belief is held below the person's conscious awareness; such a person would, if questioned, typically deny thinking such a thing. In order to protect themselves against the intolerably painful rejection and isolation that (they imagine) would follow if others recognised their (perceived) defective nature, such people make strong attempts to control others’ views of them and behavior towards them.

Now, what I say next may sound like an unfair generalization, but I feel that this (at first view) self-contradictory element is also present in Christianity.
On the one hand, the picture Christianity paints of mankind is intrinsically misanthropic: all people are considered to be "totally depraved", to use a Calvinist phrase. Worthless scum whose best deeds are still "like filthy rags" to the LORD, only fit to be sent to hell.
Humbleness is praised as the ultimate virtue, self-deprecation is considered the key to wisdom, and even the saved are cautioned time and again against feeling superior just because they've been pardoned.
On the other hand, Christianity does contain an elitist element: just think of Pauline epistles going on about "the World", and how God's Truth is foolishness in the eyes of the unsaved, giving believers a sense of being extra-special because they can see what nobody else can - especially not those pesky intellectuals with their logical objections!

 

[AskTheFamily]

Actually, a sense of low self-worth is far more detrimental to being a kind and empathetic human being than the "self-admiration mentality" could ever be.

I have an Islamic background, so I haven't detached from that thinking yet.

This was told to a companion of Imam Sadiq (6th Shia Imam) by the Imam:

[FONT=&quot] A person who is deluded is wretched in this world, and is duped in the next world because he has sold what is better for what is baser. Do not admire yourself. Sometimes you may be deceived by your property and your bodily health into supposing that you will last forever. Sometimes you are deceived by your long life, your children and your friends into thinking that you will be saved by them. Sometimes you are deceived by your beauty and the circumstances of your birth, which bring you your hopes and desires so easily that you think that you are truthful and successful in achieving your goal. Sometimes you are deceived by the regret you show people for your shortcoming in worship, but Allah knows the opposite of that is in your heart. Sometimes you make yourself worship in a spirit of reluctance; but Allah desires sincerity. Sometimes you imagine that you are calling on Allah when you are calling on another. Sometimes you imagine that you are giving good counsel to people, while your real desire is that they bow to you. Sometimes you blame yourself when you are really praising yourself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Know that you will only emerge from the darkness of delusion and desire by sincerely turning in repentance to Almighty Allah, and to whatever you know about Him, and to recognize the faults in your self which are not consistent with your intellect and knowledge, and which the faith, the law and the customary practices of the Holy Prophet and the Imams of guidance do not tolerate.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If you are content with your present condition, there is no one more wretched than you in knowledge and action, nor anyone with a more wasted life. You will inherit grief on the Day of Resurrection.[/FONT]





comment: When I would read that, to me, it would be important not to have a sense of delusion. When you admire yourself, you become deluded about yourself. When you admire your nation, you become deluded about your nation. You make excuses and don't uphold true values.

"[FONT=&quot]and to recognize the faults in your self which are not consistent with your intellect and knowledge," to me this is truly important. [/FONT]And it should apply to your nation as well.

And also:

[FONT=&quot]Humility embraces every precious and noble rank and high position. If humility had a language which people understood, it would speak about the realities which are hidden in the outcomes of affairs. Humility is whatever is undertaken for Allah and in Allah, and anything other then that is trickery. Whoever is humble to Allah, Allah will honour over many of His bondsmen. The people of humility have recognizable signs. When one of them was asked about humility, he said, 'It means you are humble to the truth and follow it, even if you hear it from a child.' Many types of pride keep one from using, accepting and following knowledge. There are certain verses about this, denouncing the haughty. The people of humility have signs recognized by the angels in heaven and the gnostics on earth.[/FONT]




And:


[FONT=&quot]From humility grow submission, humility, fear and modesty; it is only from within humility that these qualities appear. True and perfect nobility is only given to those who are humble in the essence of Allah.[/FONT]








[FONT=&quot]So I come from this value system. I haven't really re-investigated this view, but it feels true to me right now.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Humility is a breeding ground to recognize your faults, and attain true honor, the sense of self-worth should be based on truth and accompanied with more humility then pride.
[/FONT]




[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[AskTheFamily]

Honestly, I'm not even to sure about all I said about self-admiration and religion as problems- I was just so frustrated and sad - that I felt I had to write something. I didn't know before to that point that my Uncle was tortured. He was in Jail for several months.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Regimes that subject prisoners to torture ought to be condemned by the whole international community of nations.
Alas, as long as there's money to be made, the "noble" Western nations with their lofty values and high ideals will turn a blind eye on even the gravest human rights violations.

"Saudi Arabia? Ah, come on, they're not that bad. Just look at all that oil!"
"China? Ach, the Chinese. Who could be wroth with a nation that basically supplies us with more than half of the products we buy and sell?"

Only a couple of months ago, Germany sold hundreds of tanks built specifically for crowd control to the Saudis. Who'd made that decision? A small committee whose proceedings and protocols are not only closed to the public, but also to parliament. Because of "national security", you know? All of the left-wing parties protested against that move, especially in the light of what's happening throughout the Arabic world right now. But the conservative right-wing government went along with the deal, if I'm not very mistaken. Economic concerns apparently trump everything, even the most basic human rights.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

My condolences, by the way: what happened to your uncle is monstrous, and it shames me that those in a position of power do nothing because they are too closely enmeshed in the global status quo.

One last thing about humility, though:
I think it's a question of degrees. In place of humility vs. pride, I'd advocate self-knowledge as a virtue. It is healthy to know your faults and limitations, but it's unhealthy to deny one's strengths and talents. It's healthy to maintain a sense of self-worth, but it's unhealthy to succumb to the notion of flawless infallibility.

Self-respect and megalomania are not synonymous.

 

[SanFrank]

I sense from the opener your frustration between shia and sunni factions. As clear as day, I see you bring that struggle to wherever you now reside. And as for iran being well-intentioned, neither I nor 1000's of iranians share your sentiment. Let iran save Bahrain's shia citizens, diplomatically of course, if it is as well-intentioned and caring for its believers as you suggest. And let them use diplomacy in their struggle for equality, if islam is so well-structured as muslims suggest.

The guilt Christians would get of their own people not helping peolpe they can easily help and support, is alleviated by that they accepted God sacrificing himself/son to save them, and they part of such a great thing, that their faults are belittled by having already achieved "the only way to father"...they feel they have achieved the only way..which is the biggest thing they can achieve...I'm not saying this implies they should not care, I'm saying if further complicates it.

You still think the USA is a christian nation? Christianity consists of individuals believing in that faith. No one is obligated into christianity. True Christ rule will not occur until Christ himself appears physically.

If this is any consolation, I do assist the needy and hungry in my area because I understand what it is to walk in this faith. I am not selfish in my position as a christian but rather humble myself daily. The man who is hungry may be turning to G*d in which case he is better than I.

 

[TG123]

See my post to Arthra. Religion teachings caring for others, but part of the self-admiration mentality, it further complicates and blinds them to their own faults or belittles it that it's seen as trivial. It's not the cause in itself, but with the problem already there, the self-admiration mentality, it makes it worse. I guess I was wrong to state it was a cause, but what I meant is that it causes this with the problems already there.

The problem is their is already this self-admiration self-love thinking that blinds people to their faults, and people think by accepting trinity - they achieved "the only way to the father" already - they have achieved the way towards God, and this means they fulfilled their greater purpose, so that whatever they fail of the duty towards others, it's belittled. I'm not saying this implies they should not care or they belittle their duties, but already not caring and belittling their duty towards others, and being blind by self-love and pride, it adds to problem and causes you to not care further. It becomes cause with a problem of a mentality already there.

I didn't say religion = ignoring plight of others, I meant it further the complicates a bad mentality of people. Without the bad mentality, the religion would not cause that, with the bad mentality, religion further complicates the problems already there. It only becomes a cause with the context of the problem already there.

And thanks for your kind words.

Hey AskTheFamily,

No problems man, and again I wish there was more I could do. I don't agree with all the points you made but don't want to debate right now and would rather take this time to pray for you guys. Will respond a bit later if that is ok with you.

 

[TG123]

Honestly, I'm not even to sure about all I said about self-admiration and religion as problems- I was just so frustrated and sad - that I felt I had to write something. I didn't know before to that point that my Uncle was tortured. He was in Jail for several months.

You found out your uncle was tortured. You are upset and hurt and angry. And you decided to vent and express how you felt. There is nothing to be apologetic for. I'm glad you shared this with us and that you are here. May God help your uncle recover and be with your family during this horrific time. May He also lead you all to everlasting peace in eternity, and change the hearts of people on earth who follow Satan and make it a hell for others- and the hearts and minds of those who are too lazy or complacent or indifferent or fearful to do anything to change that.