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False God's in the Bible

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Just The Facts, Jan 28, 2006.

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  1. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi

    Here is a list of the False God's mentioned by Name in the Bible that I could find.
    Does anyone know of another False God mentioned in the Bible.

    Judg:2:11: And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim:

    Judg:2:13: And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.

    Judg:3:7: And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and forgat the LORD their God, and served Baalim and the groves.

    Judg:8:33: And it came to pass, as soon as Gideon was dead, that the children of Israel turned again, and went a whoring after Baalim, and made Baal-berith their god.

    Judg:10:6: And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim, and Ashtaroth, and the gods of Syria, and the gods of Zidon, and the gods of Moab, and the gods of the children of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines, and forsook the LORD, and served not him.

    Judg:10:10: And the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, saying, We have sinned against thee, both because we have forsaken our God, and also served Baalim.

    1Sam:7:3: And Samuel spake unto all the house of Israel, saying, If ye do return unto the LORD with all your hearts, then put away the strange gods and Ashtaroth from among you, and prepare your hearts unto the LORD, and serve him only: and he will deliver you out of the hand of the Philistines.

    1Sam:7:4: Then the children of Israel did put away Baalim and Ashtaroth, and served the LORD only.

    1Sam:12:10: And they cried unto the LORD, and said, We have sinned, because we have forsaken the LORD, and have served Baalim and Ashtaroth: but now deliver us out of the hand of our enemies, and we will serve thee.

    1Sam:31:10: And they put his armour in the house of Ashtaroth: and they fastened his body to the wall of Beth-shan.

    1Kgs:18:18: And he answered, I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father's house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the LORD, and thou hast followed Baalim.

    2Chron:17:3: And the LORD was with Jehoshaphat, because he walked in the first ways of his father David, and sought not unto Baalim;

    2Chron:24:7: For the sons of Athaliah, that wicked woman, had broken up the house of God; and also all the dedicated things of the house of the LORD did they bestow upon Baalim.

    2Chron:28:2: For he walked in the ways of the kings of Israel, and made also molten images for Baalim.

    2Chron:33:3: For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.

    2Chron:34:4: And they brake down the altars of Baalim in his presence; and the images, that were on high above them, he cut down; and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images, he brake in pieces, and made dust of them, and strowed it upon the graves of them that had sacrificed unto them.

    Jer:2:23: How canst thou say, I am not polluted, I have not gone after Baalim? see thy way in the valley, know what thou hast done: thou art a swift dromedary traversing her ways;

    Jer:9:14: But have walked after the imagination of their own heart, and after Baalim, which their fathers taught them:

    Hosea:2:13: And I will visit upon her the days of Baalim, wherein she burned incense to them, and she decked herself with her earrings and her jewels, and she went after her lovers, and forgat me, saith the LORD.

    Hosea:2:17: For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.

    Hosea:11:2: As they called them, so they went from them: they sacrificed unto Baalim, and burned incense to graven images.

    Rom:11:4: But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

    2Pt:2:15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

    Jude:1:11: Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

    Rv:2:14: But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
     
  2. Tavita

    Tavita beside quiet waters He restores my soul..

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    Here are a couple of gods quoted in Stephen's speech before he was stoned..


    (Act 7:41) "At that time they made a calf and brought a sacrifice to the idol, and were rejoicing in the works of their hands.

    (Act 7:42) "But God turned away and delivered them up to serve the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, 'IT WAS NOT TO ME THAT YOU OFFERED VICTIMS AND SACRIFICES FORTY YEARS IN THE WILDERNESS, WAS IT, O HOUSE OF ISRAEL?

    (Act 7:43) 'YOU ALSO TOOK ALONG THE TABERNACLE OF MOLOCH AND THE STAR OF THE GOD ROMPHA, THE IMAGES WHICH YOU MADE TO WORSHIP. I ALSO WILL REMOVE YOU BEYOND BABYLON.'


    Stephen quoted from Amos 5:25 - 27, which speaks of Sikkuth, or Sakkuth (Saturn), or else, shrine of your Moloch. And Kiyyun, or Kaiwan (Saturn), and their star gods. These are the gods the Israelites brought with them on their journey through the wilderness, from Egypt.
     
  3. exodus19

    exodus19 New Member

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    so what of these false gods, where they not from Assyrian cultures?, ie. Indian, as in coming from the east.

    Now i ask you, is there any revelance to these false gods today or as pertaining to revelation?
    Rev ch 2 & 3 perhaps?

    There is much more substance to these verses though. This is a good beginning for a days discussion about what are these, who worshipped them and why, and what they stood up for.
    If these were faiths in the region and branches of Assyrain cultures then their origins were from Hinduism.
    That is the understood by studying history.

    Then as faiths, or religion and gods that men prayed to what did they aspire to and why?

    Do you know the history of all these gods?

    If you did then you would have an easier time with the OT.

    peace over.
     
  4. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi Tavita

    Amos 5:26: But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.

    The Septuagint translates "Chuin" as Remphan or ROMPHA. Which is the planet/star Saturn Whose name is Moloch.

    In Roman Mythology Saturn is the Father of Heaven. The festival we call Christmas was a rename of the festival of Saturn IE Saturnalia. Saturn is believed Born on Dec 25th as Was his Son Jupiter who overthrows Saturn and takes over heaven. Jupiter is a dirivitive of the word "bright".

    In the cultures of the Mid east this Son has different names melqart/Tammuz/Horus/Sol but the theme is central to all Pagan religions.

    We find reference in Ezekiel (not sure why I missed that one in my list)

    Ezek:8:14: Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

    The legend is common in all mid eastern religions.

    The God Dies and is reborn.............. in some legends he is reborn in the Son of the pregnant wife as in Egypt. Thus giving us the many depictions of the Mother God Issis and her Son Horus. In Phoenicia these were Astrate/Ashtaroth and her son Melqart. In Babylon it was Ishtar and her son Tammuz. The Same false God with different names in Different Cultures.


    It was common to sacrifice your first born son to Molech

    Jer:32:35: And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

    Jeremiah makes it clear that Molech and Baal are one in the Same.

    So what we really see in scripture is there has always been one enemy of God’s people. One False God that they follow after time and time Again.

    Now as we all know the AC will try to have all bow to him as the Father/Son of Heaven.

    [FONT=&quot]It is the Same false God it has Always been it is Baal/Molech The God of War and Forces/ Fortresses. He is the destroyer of Mankind Jesus is the Saviour......................he is the God of War.....................Jesus the God of peace

    [/FONT][FONT=&quot]We call him the Beast in the Pit. He is King of the Pit.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal_(demon)

    [/FONT]" He is also called "The Lord" and ruled over the high gods assembled on holy mount of Heaven."
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]In this unholy hierarchy, Baal (usually spelt "Bael" in this context; there is a possibility that the two figures aren't connected) was ranked as the first and principal king in Hell, ruling over the East.

    11: And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

    Isa:14:13: For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars(angels) of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

    This is a battle that has been going on since the Angel's rebelled against God. It is these principalities and Powers that we Fight.

    The players HAVE NOT and WILLNOT change.

    Jesus will defeat them at his return and the lies they taught mankind in the Garden will be cast aside.

    Make no mistake this is who the Beast in the pit is.
     
  5. exodus19

    exodus19 New Member

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    Just the facts,

    you are taking these stories from false god stories and mythology and trying to see them fit into the Bible,

    This is part of why you are led astray in your learning.
    You are trying too hard to see it all fit from so many differect authors who you deem to have written truths or you think that b/c they have credentials a mile long you believe their manufuactered stories.

    You will forever be caught by all this garbage unless yo u let go of mans proposed theories and simply accept the Holy Spirit as your God.

    here above is a clear eg of your believing in the myth stories of Molech.

    look you write they sacrificed their children to Molech as if their physically burned their kids in a fire.
    This literal belief of the Holy Bible is wrong.

    Yes arguably , cults came even in days past , and practiced varying kinds of voodooism and began all kinds of physical sacrificing to god they made up in their minds.

    Much of all this back them came from skewed reading from the then modern day writers of history and as a result came into practice these habits of foolishness.

    HOWEVER THE REAL IMPLICATION AS IS WRITTEN INTO THE OT ABOUT THE SACRIFICING OF CHILDREN IS NOT PHYSICAL BURNING IN OPEN FLAMES BUT IMPLIED THAT THE CHILDREN WERE GIVEN UP TO "EVIL CULTURES" OF LUST AND SIN LIFE HABITS.

    Again hear carefully this point as it is written in many places throughout the OT.

    This is a misundeerstanding dervived from so called phd's who have placed their name on history books and repeatedly you have been inculcated by these lies.

    To be sacrificed to other gods was simply being lost to the Dragon type kIngs who promoted sex, fornication and lustful life and the burning is in the spirit of the mind, to live in lust, hence cultures of hell or evil or of pagan gods.

    i can back this up all day and i have through my Bibles, the work has all been correlatated.

    By avoiding my comments, does not demonstrate your intelligence and my lack of it but it does imply your your reliance on the comments and history books of men.

    The Holy Prophets, ie the Bible Prophets only relied on each other, they did not seek others to comment from.

    This is your starting poiint to getting right with God.

    pray to your heavenly Father to guide you , and not j,o,smith some historian raised and regardedamonst his pears of sinners.

    You obviously harbour sin actions that you know are wronng.

    This is has been the pattern of those who ignore me.

    Then and now, but i will always forgive, even the sinner for his efforts to avoid me.

    You cannot get to God without the son

    That's .........JUST THE FACTS.



    (*_*) and you know it.
     
  6. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi Exodus

    Quote
    HOWEVER THE REAL IMPLICATION AS IS WRITTEN INTO THE OT ABOUT THE SACRIFICING OF CHILDREN IS NOT PHYSICAL BURNING IN OPEN FLAMES BUT IMPLIED THAT THE CHILDREN WERE GIVEN UP TO "EVIL CULTURES" OF LUST AND SIN LIFE HABITS.
    End Quote


    You are lost and need to study History. This was COMMON practise in ancient times. Why do you think God has Abraham do this to show his loyalty. He then forbids the Israelis to follow this practise and gives the example of sacrifice of a Lamb.
     
  7. exodus19

    exodus19 New Member

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  8. Tavita

    Tavita beside quiet waters He restores my soul..

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    Hi exodus19,

    I believe in the literal burning of children to Molech too and always have, not because of reading any other authors on the subject. If you have the information to show this is not true, could you please be forthcoming with it?
     
  9. exodus19

    exodus19 New Member

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    i have to go for the day no time to deliver the goods.

    yes in ancient times they may have sacrificed children, bu the molech god was of lust of the flesh to eat animals offered to god of molech, so they made a moten statue likened to a cow from gold and justified their lust of flesh. Moses was not into cow killing as you might think. They were a source of food, milk cheese butter, and as well as the ox laboured to till the grounds. Though shall not kill an ox that ploughs nor out of lust of the flesh for food.

    So i don't think that baby burgers were very tasty either, what to speak of sacrifice them for what, more money, rain, more sun or good sex which one of the above was the sacrifice for.

    oh just some fun that's it so the jews sacrificed their children for fun , in big bonn fires like the Baal wordhippers.

    have you absolutely gone ____________?

    don't answer that, i'll get back you later.
     
  10. justified

    justified New Member

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    This is all very confusing, guys.

    And BTW, just because the bible talks about cults, that doesn't mean the cult was actually historically that way. The bible is a source that polemicizes against pagan religions a great deal.

    As a Near Eastern scholar, let me just warn you of a fallacy here -- the connection of these gods between different cultures. This was something done in ancient times (ie, calling Baal and Marduk the same; or Seth and Baal, etc..) but it is not like they really were the same. The passage you quoted about Saturn actually has nothing to do with Saturn (or, more properly, the pre-Roman Greek 'equivalent').

    On the "pass through the flames" thing, the context in the Hebrew text is clear that it is referring to some type of Divination and Magic, not sacrifice (e.g. Deut. 18.10,11).
     
  11. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi Tavita

    Scripture and history are clear on this........... it was indeed a sacrifice of your first born in the Fire.

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13309a.htm

    That many general ideas and rites, which are found in pagan religions, find their place also in the Jewish sacrificial system, should excite as little surprise as the fact that revealed religion in general does not reject at all natural religion and ethics, but rather adopts them in a higher form. The ethical purity and excellence of the Jewish sacrificial system is at once seen in the circumstance that the detestable human sacrifices are spurned in the official religion of Jahweh (cf. Deuteronomy 12:31; 18:10). Abraham's trial (Gen. xxii 1 sqq.) ended with the prohibition of the slaying of Isaac, God ordering instead the sacrifice of the ram caught in the briers. Among the Children of IsraelLeviticus 20:1 sqq., etc.). The later prophets also raised their mighty voices against the disgraceful service of Moloch with its sacrifice of children. It is true that the baneful influence of pagan environment won the upper hand from the time of King Achaz to that of Josias to such an extent that in the ill-omened Valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem thousands of innocent children were sacrificed to Moloch. To this infectious pagan example, not to the spirit of the religion of Jahweh, is also to be referred the sacrifice which Jephte, in consequence of his vow, reluctantly performed by slaying his own daughter (Judges 11:1 sqq.). The assertion of many investigators (Ghilany, Daumer, Vatke) that even in the legitimate service of Jahweh human sacrifices occurred, is historically untenable; for, though the Mosaic Law contained the provision that, not only the firstlings of beasts and Fruits, but also the firstborn of men were due to Jahweh, it was expressly provided that these latter should be redeemed, not sacrificed. The offering of the blood of an animal instead of a human life originated in the profound idea of substitution, and has its justification in the prophetical metaphorical references to the unique vicarious sacrifice offered by Christ on Golgotha. The Israelitic blood vengeance (cherem), in accordance with which impious enemies and things were utterly exterminated (cf. Joshua 6:21 sqq.; 1 Kings 15:15, etc.), had absolutely nothing to do with human sacrifice. The idea of the blood vengeance originated, not as in various pagan religions in the thirst of God for human blood, but in the principle that the powers hostile to God should be removed by a bloody chastisement from the path of the Lord of life and death. The accursed were not sacrificed but removed from the face of the earth. According to Jewish tradition, sacrifice in its bloody and its unbloody form extends back to the beginning of the human race. The first and oldest sacrifice mentioned in the Bible is that of Cain and Abel (Gen. iv, 3 sq.). With sacrifice an altar was associated (Genesis 12:7 sq.). Even in patriarchal times we meet also the sacrificial meal, especially in connexion with treaties and the conclusion of peace. The conclusion of the covenant at Mount Sinai was also effected under the auspices of a solemn sacrifice and banquet (Exodus 24:5 sqq.). Subsequently Moses, as the envoy of Jahweh, elaborated the whole sacrificial system, and in the Pentateuch fixed with most scrupulous exactness the various kinds of sacrifice and their ritual. Like the whole Mosaic cult, the sacrificial system is governed by the one central idea, peculiar to the religion of Jahweh: "Be holy because I am holy" (Leviticus 11:44).

    http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn12/archaeologyjudges.htm


    Included in these Canaanite practices was child sacrifice, described in the Bible as having children to "pass through the fire to Molech" (Jeremiah 32:35). The Ras Shamra tablets also mention the god Molech. Some unrighteous kings in Israel instituted the practice of sacrificing infants to Molech. God, through the prophet Jeremiah, denounced this ghastly ritual. "For the children of Judah have done evil in My sight," and "they have built the high places of Tophet [related to Molech worship] . . . to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into My heart" (Jeremiah 7:30-31).
    In the ancient Phoenician city of Carthage—part of the Canaanite culture—some 20,000 urns containing the remains of sacrificed children were found. The archaeologists at the site apprise us that "the Carthaginian Tophet is the largest of these Phoenician sites and indeed is the largest cemetery of sacrificed humans ever discovered. Child sacrifice took place there almost continuously for a period of nearly 600 years"

    (Lawrence Stager and Samuel Wolff, Biblical
    Archaeological Review
    , January-February 1984, p. 32).

    Kleitarchos, a Greek from the third century B.C., described this sacrifice as the heating up of a bronze statue with outstretched arms. Infants placed into these red-hot arms quickly perished.

    Do not be fooled by those who chose to spiritualise the words of God at their own whim.
    Who claim some special connection to the Spirit that others do not have. Satan's biggest illusion is to convince people he does not exist and that these things did not happen.

     
  12. OttawaUk

    OttawaUk Veteran

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    Are you saying the Bible is wrong, justified?
     
  13. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi Justified

    I disagree the Bible has been claimed by many over the years to not be "TRUE HISTORY" or a True telling of Events. Only Latter to be proven correct in it telling of Events.

    A perfect example of this is Nineveh claimed by scholars for centuries not to be a real city but rather a fable Jonah did not really get swalled by A whale the whole story was just a fable. That is until it was found by Sir Austen Henry Layard In 1847

    The passing through the flames was in ADDITION to the other cult practises God was forbidding.

    Excepted as FACT by the Saints and Apostles then discredited in the 1800’s by the scientific community as not reasonable and against Human Nature. The proof of Child Sacrifice is now being re-established by growing evidence on the archaeology front and finds of historical records. The evidence is that Child Sacrifice to Baal was real.


    The Romans named the Planets after their Gods, The connection of Molech to Saturn is very real.

    As for the connection between these false Gods Jeremiah clearly connects the Moloch and Baal as one.

    Jer:32:35: And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

    If you choose to believe you know better then Jeremiah that is your choice.

    This was a perversion of Abraham and his willingness to sacrifice Isaac in the fire.

    Abraham’s whole willingness to do this was in no small part based on the traditions of the culture he served which had this ritual as part of its culture.

    God calls on Abraham to sacrifice his first son to him and Not to Moloch. Thus Abraham shows his loyalty to the True God and not the False God. God then stops him and replaces child sacrifice with the Ram. It is this kind of substitution of Pagan rituals and cultures with a God endorsed tradition. Christmas is the same thing only done by Christianity it is the taking of a Pagan Tradition and altering it to serve and honour the one True God.
     
  14. justified

    justified New Member

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    Have you ever read the book? Did you notice anything funny when you did? More than that, did you or did you not actually consider what I wrote?


    Yes yes, everyone was very excited about the discovery of the Nineveh mounds. But that's not why people thought Jonah was a fable. In fact, a lot of people still consider it more or less a Midrash. I'm not one of them, but they have some interesting points.


    You are using terms so confusingly. Molech and Baal are not the same dude.


    Abraham came from Mesopotamia. First from Ur, near the Persian Gulf, then he moved to Harran in the North. These cities did not worship Molech or Baal because they were east-semitic. There is no evidence at any time of human sacrifice in Mesopotamian civilisation that I am aware of. So what are you talking about, exactly?
     
  15. OttawaUk

    OttawaUk Veteran

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    Justifed -

    "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God." (1 Corinthians 3:19)
     
  16. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi justified

    Did I consider your words hmmmmmm......Well Jeremiah disagrees with you.........lets see I can believe Jeremiah or You.......................hmmmmmmm what should I do.

    Not only did they consider Jonah a fable they considered the City a fable. In Fact they considered the Whole Empire of the Assyrians to be a Myth.

    Quote
    You are using terms so confusingly. Molech and Baal are not the same dude.
    End Quote


    Jer:32:35: And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloch

    Moloch the God Ba'al, the Sacred Bull, was widely worshipped in the ancient Near East and wherever Carthaginian culture extended. Baal Moloch was conceived under the form of a calf or an ox or depicted as a man with the head of a bull.
    Hadad, Baal or simply the King identified the god within his cult. The name Moloch is not the name he was known by among his worshippers, but a HebrewMoloch (in the SeptuagintOld Testament), or MolechMelech or king, transformed by reading it with the vowels of bosheth or 'shameful thing'. He is sometimes also called Milcom in the Old Testament.

    Moloch is a Hebrew title for Baal it means King of Shame.

    Just as Ashtoreth is Hebrew title for the Goddess Astarte it takes Astarte in Hebrew and added the Hebrew for shame to the Name.

    And yes there was Child sacrifice in
    Mesopotamia
     
  17. justified

    justified New Member

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    ...
    ...k...waiting for it...waiting for it...

    We don't have time to go into this now -- or at least I don't -- but we can talk about the Canaanite pantheon later. Wikipedia, btw, is a very bad source to quote to me. It's evil.


    You didn't answer my question about Jeremiah. Do you know the term Deuteronomist?


    Some did. That was hardly the only opinion. A lot of things changed in the 19th century in terms of our historical knowledge, and a lot of things are still changing. What do you expect? I mean, we now know that a Psalm is basically derived from an Egyptian song about the sun-god. How do you like them apples?


    Hey look, I can quote a verse too: It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings. (Proverbs 25:2)
     
  18. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi

    Let's see Jeremiah saying they are the same is ignored by you.

    So I post an Educational source.........no it is evil.

    And Now you expect me to waste my time showing you how Marduk Chief God of UR and Sumer at the time of Abraham was the beginning of Human and Child Sacrifice and how all of this goes hand and hand with astrology.
     
  19. justified

    justified New Member

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    Wikipedia is open-source and should not be cited in an academic discussion. When I have students who do that I give them lower marks.


    Nah, I don't need any help with astrology. But if you're going to say Marduk was child-sacrifice, yeah, I think we're going to need some evidence.
     
  20. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi

    Like I said why would I post anything you obviously cannot accept the plain facts in front of you.

    I don’t have time to get into it now…….bhahahahahahahahaha…………run away …..run away………………………... perhaps it will confuse him if I run away some more…………………… avoid answering any points myself…………………………………….. and try and redirect the discussion to something else.

    I understand you know better than the prophets and well-documented facts of history. Please spare me your, I know better and I know more I’m a teacher routine, save it for your poor students.

    Plain and simple Moloch=Baal you are just wrong………oh so wrong…………….I know you are not able to admit this………….that’s ok I understand. I’m done with you .....wipe wipe wipe.
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