Faith vs. Relationship with God

[snowbirdling]

So I'm a convert, and I have a lot of Protestant friends, and one of my friends was asking me what I do to keep my relationship with God "fresh" (alive, growing, etc.) and I said she asked me what i did to keep my relationship with God "fresh" and I said that i don't think about it in terms of "relationship with God" because I don't know what my relationship with God is like because I don't know what God is like. So I said I would rather answer the question in terms of what I do to keep my faith "fresh."
Is that the right way to think about it? I don't know if it's because I'm a convert or what, but I have found the whole "relationship with God" thing really repellent and too closey smooshy wooshy. At first that meant that I was kind of mechanical in my prayer, but I feel like I've come to some balance in between acknowledging (in a very small way) that God is a big mysterious being that I can't know and understand all about, and also between "JC being my homeboy" and all that good (hilarious) Protestant "closeness" with God stuff.
Sometimes I'm afraid to pray spontaneous prayers though because I don't know HOW to address God, not because I'm afraid of offending Him (He knows my limitations in understanding) but because I don't want to confused my own understanding. Does this make sense? Did I do alright?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I think Fr Hopko put it best when he said that you can never really know God, but you really gotta know Him to know that. it is a relationship with Him as a Person, but you are right in that it is not the lovey dovey cheesy stuff you hear a lot.

I hope this helps

 

[Nephi]

I personally don't have a problem describing it as a relationship with God.

Even if God is ultimately incomprehensible that doesn't mean you can't have a relationship with him. We do believe that God's energies/graces are him, with which we can truly interact with and be a part of God. As long as we recognize that the relationship isn't like being "homeboys" then I think it's alright.

Also, God is love and loves us. By loving him in return we have a mutual relationship. We don't need to completely comprehend someone in order to having a loving relationship with them.

So we grow in our relationship with God through the Sacraments, our prayer life, reading, doing good, etc. Anything to fight the passions and further God's grace within us, I'd suppose.

 

[Lirenel]

From my meager understanding, our relationship to God is as sons and daughters to our father (definitely not 'homeboys'!). It's intensely loving and personal, but there is also the distance of respect and the unknowable. For example, with my earthly father, I don't know every detail about him and his life - in fact I think I would feel rather uncomfortable if I did! But that doesn't me I don't love him or he doesn't love me any less.

And of course, with God, this is magnified beyond humanity.

(I really need to stop posting late at night. I don't think I make sense to myself, let alone to others.)

 

[Monica child of God 1]

Our salvation is based on relationship. Theosis is only possible in relationship with Christ. As it says in the gospel of John, Christ is in the Father, we are in Christ and Christ is in us.

God has made us to be His sons (even we who are female have the benefits of sonship). Christ did call us His friends. But, imagine being friends with an earthly king: you'd still remember your place. You wouldn't saunter up to the throne whenever you wanted. You'd respect the position of your friend the king and know that being his friend is a privilege.

M.

 

[bibledoctor]

Relationship with Christ leads us to God the Father (I and the Father are One) and Faith is obedience to Jesus' commandments (No man cometh unto the Father except through Me) Several years of saying prayers manually takes all the "lovey-dovey" out and makes perfect. God bless

 

[Knee V]

What your friend is likely asking you is "how do you keep yourself from being bored in your Christian life?"

My priest recently talked a little about that and gave a good analogy (although he was speaking on a slightly different topic). The way we build and cultivate a relationship with God is similar to the way we build and maintain a house: one nail at a time, one hammer swing at a time, over and over again, up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down; back and forth with the saw, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Pray today. Pray tomorrow. Pray the day after that. Pray the day after that. Pray the day after that. Attend the Liturgy this Sunday. Attend it the week after that. Attend it the week after that. Celebrate the cycle of Feasts this year. Celebrate them the next year. Celebrate them the year after that. Celebrate them the year after that.

That is the only way to maintain a house, and that is the only way to cultivate a "relationship with God" (or whatever else you may want to call it) - you just have to work at it all the time and never give up on it. We won't always feel excitement; we won't always feel like we've completed a marathon. Simply put, if we seek Him we will find Him. It is not merely an exercise in avoiding spiritual boredom. There may be emotional ups and downs (and we all react differently with our emotions to different things), but we can't let them dictate our spiritual life.

We don't need to concern ourselves with trying not to be bored. We need to concern ourselves with engaging that "crucified life" day in and day out. That will keep things "fresh" enough.

 

[Nephi]

We don't need to concern ourselves with trying not to be bored. We need to concern ourselves with engaging that "crucified life" day in and day out. That will keep things "fresh" enough.

This touches on an important part of peoples' prayer lives that is important. Dry spells of just going through the motions while feeling dead to it all can be extremely disheartening and sometimes devastating, and preventing or fixing this could be called keeping it "fresh." Although this may or may not be included in what the OP meant.

 

[ArmyMatt]

This touches on an important part of peoples' prayer lives that is important. Dry spells of just going through the motions while feeling dead to it all can be extremely disheartening and sometimes devastating, and preventing or fixing this could be called keeping it "fresh." Although this may or may not be included in what the OP meant.

and many folks say that its those dry spells where real spiritual growth occurrs. this is where that relationship deepens.

 

[Nephi]

and many folks say that its those dry spells where real spiritual growth occurrs. this is where that relationship deepens.

I've heard that as well, and it is probably true. However some people never manage to make it through them - the convert burn-outs, for example.

 

[Touma]

If evangelicals would drop the teenage love angst they have for Jesus, then I imagine the relationship terminology wouldn't be so odd. But I agree that it is a repellent to hear Jesus talked about in a way that some people do it. When I go to my non-denominational church, some of the worship feels like I am singing a love song. I could replace Jesus with a girls name, and the songs would be about the same. That's wrong.

 

[Nephi]

If evangelicals would drop the teenage love angst they have for Jesus, then I imagine the relationship terminology wouldn't be so odd. But I agree that it is a repellent to hear Jesus talked about in a way that some people do it. When I go to my non-denominational church, some of the worship feels like I am singing a love song. I could replace Jesus with a girls name, and the songs would be about the same. That's wrong.

Some Lifehouse songs immediately come to mind.

 

[Touma]

Some Lifehouse songs immediately come to mind.

Basically.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

My former Prot pastor called it "Jesus is my boyfriend music."

M.

 

[gracefullamb]

My former Prot pastor called it "Jesus is my boyfriend music."

M.

My brother points out if you replace Jesus with lover, baby, honey, darling, or any other endearment you have a secular love song. If you replace Holy Spirit with acid, pot, shrooms or whatever other drug you want you have 60's rock song. Not sure how accurate this theory is since I have never listened to Christian pop or Christian rock music.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

What your friend is likely asking you is "how do you keep yourself from being bored in your Christian life?"

My priest recently talked a little about that and gave a good analogy (although he was speaking on a slightly different topic). The way we build and cultivate a relationship with God is similar to the way we build and maintain a house: one nail at a time, one hammer swing at a time, over and over again, up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down; back and forth with the saw, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Pray today. Pray tomorrow. Pray the day after that. Pray the day after that. Pray the day after that. Attend the Liturgy this Sunday. Attend it the week after that. Attend it the week after that. Celebrate the cycle of Feasts this year. Celebrate them the next year. Celebrate them the year after that. Celebrate them the year after that.

That is the only way to maintain a house, and that is the only way to cultivate a "relationship with God" (or whatever else you may want to call it) - you just have to work at it all the time and never give up on it. We won't always feel excitement; we won't always feel like we've completed a marathon. Simply put, if we seek Him we will find Him. It is not merely an exercise in avoiding spiritual boredom. There may be emotional ups and downs (and we all react differently with our emotions to different things), but we can't let them dictate our spiritual life.

We don't need to concern ourselves with trying not to be bored. We need to concern ourselves with engaging that "crucified life" day in and day out. That will keep things "fresh" enough.

I think it was Khouria Frederica who said that, like a candle or vigil lamp, what we want in our spiritual lives is a slow steady burn. Not a hot flame that flashes high and bright, then fizzles away to nothing. Think of that the next time someon asks about being "on fire" for God.

M.

 

[snowbirdling]

You all really hit the nail on the head about the slow burn, making it through the dry spells talk. I'm a convert of 5 years and although I know that's not even very long, I went through a dry spell about 2 years ago. I was so worried that I was going to approach it wrong, that I would lose my faith, that becoming Orthodox was wrong and all my new Orthodox friends were going to be disappointed in me! Instead of trying to figure it out though (this sounds a bit strange) I just decided to ignore it. To keep doing what I had been doing, what you all keep saying: liturgy, prayers. Eventually I got through the spell, and the feeling came back. But what I learned was that the feeling is so, so, SO irrelevant. Feelings might be real, but they aren't always true.
I guess that's why I get uncomfortable in the whole "relationship" thing, because to a former Protestant "relationship" means something a bit different than "merely" (!!!) how we related to God.

In terms of the keeping it fresh thing, I think what knee-v said about engaging in the crucified life is exactly what we need to do. It's simple, it's just sometimes it's harder than other times. I guess that makes it not a dry spell but the most hearty and meaty of spells.

You guys ROCK. Thanks for letting me post and ask questions without self-consciousness.