Exposing Adventism - Celibacy is Best

jorgfe

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In 1895 Mrs. White wrote:
The time has come when a sterile condition is not the worst condition to be in. (Ellen White, Letter 15, 1895)
When a missionary couple had children, Mrs. White blasted them:
It was not in accordance with our faith or God’s will that our missionaries should fill their hands with cares and burdens that were not essential to the work… I was shown that Brother and Sister Van Horn had departed from God's counsel in bringing into the world children. God required all there was of them in His work and both could have done a good work for the Master, but the enemy came in and his counsel was followed, and the cause of God was robbed of the attention it should have had... The time is and has been for years, that the bringing into the world is more an occasion of grief than joy… Satan controls these children, and the Lord has but little to do with them… The time has come when, in one sense, they that have wives be as though they had none. (Ellen White, MS 34, 1885)
In another letter she wrote of another missionary couple:
How much better would have been the influence of both if they had not married, but both have devoted their interests to God's cause; and after they were married, how much better for them to have thoroughly considered the situation and decided that God should have all the powers He had given them in the work of saving souls. (Ellen White, letter written from Europe in 1888, as quoted in "Counsels Regarding Parenthood" DF 360A, a document produced by the Ellen G. White Estate.)​
This next statement shows how warped a person's sense of right and wrong can become under the influence of someone like Ellen White.
That testimony was read before gatherings of people, but it was evidently destroyed when it met with so much resistance, and the proof of its previous existence can be only had from those who heard it read or was an eye witness to the consternation it caused… Many tried to live up to her instructions. I sat in the Adventist church in Missoula, Montana, and heard the minister, Rollin D. Quinn, get up before the congregation and with tears streaming down his cheeks, confess that Satan had tempted him during the dark hours of the night and he had sinned but with God’s help he would stand firm from now on, only to repeat the scene the following Sabbath. One minister told my father that he did not dare trust himself home with his wife, so he had her meet him at the railroad station. (The Story of Ellen White’s Suppressed Testimony, Limboline, Glendale, California: Church of the Advent Fellowship), Jan 7, 1984, p 10,11)​
Satan had tempted him during the dark hours of the night?

"he did not dare trust himself home with his wife"?

"he had her meet him at the railroad station"?

This is instruction from God?

Gilbert Jorgensen
It has been 164 Years, 1 Months, and 19 Days since October 22, 1844​
 

Avonia

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When it comes to a dysfunctional view of sexuality, she had a great role model - Paul.

It appears that the SDA church is still occupying a great deal of your life space. That's understandable.

You cannot forgive the church if you are unable to forgive yourself. The first step, for both, is total acceptance.
 
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AzA

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All humans are sexually active all the time. What expressions flow from that activity and energy vary widely. But we do not cease to be sexual creatures just because we do or don't perform certain acts.
Part of the konfoolzement across Christendom is failing to understand that sexual intercourse is not the sum of sexuality, and that blocking an expression doesn't necessarily mean respect for the root.

Jon, my observations differ from yours. But it's all gravy (and not vegetarian :)).
 
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Avonia

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All humans are sexually active all the time. What expressions flow from that activity and energy vary widely. But we do not cease to be sexual creatures just because we do or don't perform certain acts.
Part of the konfoolzement across Christendom is failing to understand that sexual intercourse is not the sum of sexuality, and that blocking an expression doesn't necessarily mean respect for the root. :)).
You are a wise person.
 
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JonMiller

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I did a quick google but can't find any statistics. I thought I had seen some (well, not of adventists, but of others). What I observe in adventism is most people are sexually active (with others) before marriage.

I think there is a good posibility that I am the only one who isn't.

And yeah, I know that masturbation is still sexual activity. It is quite obvious to differentiate between sexual activity with others and sexual activity that doesn't include others.

Also, not sure if I agree about sexual activity of all humans pre-pubescence. It would depend on your definition of sexual activity. If you define things too broadly, they lose meaning and your definitions are pointless.

JM
 
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AzA

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Your last comment describes sexuality in behavioral terms: behavior expressed in response to a mating urge. I describe sexuality in terms of being, poles, and modes. Their expression varies by context, and mating behaviors are only one form.

Creation is polarized by design at all levels, and is functional only when the poles interact. Harmony happens when the poles are in proportionate balance. Cool things -- fruitfulness, creativity, procreation -- result from interaction and synthesis of the poles. Dodgy things -- inertia, domination, abuse -- result from polar/modal imbalances, overemphasis of one pole over another, or disrespect for one or the other.

If your model satisfies you, bless you with it. I would say that an "I, even I only..." attitude may not help you maintain your satisfaction.
 
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tall73

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Ellen White on married sexuality:
SA 177.1

Let the Christian wife refrain, both in word and act, from exciting the animal passions of her husband. Many have no strength at all to waste in this direction. They have already, from their youth up, weakened their brains, and sapped their constitutions, by the gratification of their animal passions. Self-denial and temperance should be the watch-word in married life; then, when children are born to parents, they will not be so liable to have the moral and intellectual organs weak, and the animal strong.




Scriptures on married sexuality:

1Co 7:3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband.
1Co 7:4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
1Co 7:5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
 
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Pythons

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My guess is that traditional sexual relations would be rather dull compared to the mathematics of a woman mating with a beast. According to the experts once someone starts down that road and spends countless hours fantasizing about the root cause of almalgamation ( the preliminary events that cause the woman to give birth to a human-beast ).

It's possible there may have been a inappropriate behavior with animals fetish that was excited by some of the beliefs of the day. Science that has gone amok is one thing but when a religious person takes a false premise and runs with it you can end up with spectacular doctrines.

Who knows? Just one idea about why Ellen didn't like traditional sex between married people.
 
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Adventtruth

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My guess is that traditional sexual relations would be rather dull compared to the mathematics of a woman mating with a beast. According to the experts once someone starts down that road and spends countless hours fantasizing about the root cause of almalgamation ( the preliminary events that cause the woman to give birth to a human-beast ).

It's possible there may have been a inappropriate behavior with animals fetish that was excited by some of the beliefs of the day. Science that has gone amok is one thing but when a religious person takes a false premise and runs with it you can end up with spectacular doctrines.

Who knows? Just one idea about why Ellen didn't like traditional sex between married people.

lol!

AT:D
 
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Pythons

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Yeah, lol! Seriously! All kidding aside, this has to be one of the most bizarre mixtures of religion and fantasy I've ever seen. Unfortunately here in WA State the authorities uncovered a very large society of people who practiced this lifestyle with great vigor.

According to the information from the police reports the society was made up mostly of people who identified themselves as gay. A movie about this society ( it's world wide ) was made into a Rated R documentary. My Boss competes in professional horse riding and the stables where she keeps her horse ended up being the movie set for the movie "Zoo".

According to what the experts on inappropriate behavior with animals say there is a large segment of the population in every generation who dwell on beatiality and given that some of the science at the time of Ellen White suggested it was possible for an animal to mate with a female human that fantasy found it's way of making it into some of the religious text.

I'm not saying in anyway that because Ellen urged or desired to experience these things makes her any less of a prophet because while she could well have wanted to do these things she resisted her desire to do them and in doing so, defeated sin.
 
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tall73

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Abstinence isn't temperance. What's wrong with temperance? There are other things to do beside the horizontal mambo.


No it is not. But then that very much depends on how you define temperance.

SA 177.1

Let the Christian wife refrain, both in word and act, from exciting the animal passions of her husband. Many have no strength at all to waste in this direction.


Ellen White taught not exciting animal passions, and that some do not have any strength to "waste"..

But Paul on the other hand says they should come together frequently to avoid temptation. He does not consider sex a "waste" of strenght, but a safeguard against temptation.

1Co 7:3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband.
1Co 7:4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
1Co 7:5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.



Ellen focuses on self-denial as part of temperance in regards to married sex.

Self-denial and temperance should be the watch-word in married life.

Paul says the wife and husband belong to one another, and so if there is self-denial it is to be in the direction of meeting the others needs so that they are not tempted. He says that to NOT come together frequently is a lack of self-control.

but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
 
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tall73

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Nah, it is obvious that he says that we should sexually satisify ourselves with our mates so that we aren't tempted due to lack of self control. He is not saying that not sexually satisfying ourselves with our mates is lack of self control.

JM

A. I am not sure I agree.
B. If sexually satisfying ourselves with our mates leads to less temptation, then is it not lack of self control to not lessen temptation?
C. Do you think that Ellen and Paul are saying the same thing?
 
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