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Exodus typology - need your perspective

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by joyfulthanks, Mar 20, 2007.

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  1. joyfulthanks

    joyfulthanks The long day is over. Praise the Lord!

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    I need some perspective on the typology in Exodus.

    I think all Christians would agree (based on scripture) that Christ is our passover.

    There are also other symbolic connections between the various events of the exodus and Christian experience.

    However, my question regards the conquest of Canaan. Where do you believe this fits in the OT typology? Some have said crossing the Jordan represents death, but I don't buy it because the Israelites still had to conquer Canaan and cast out enemies once they had crossed the Jordan.

    Others (those of the holiness movement) have said that the crossing of the Jordan represents a second experience after justification - that of sanctification by faith. I'm not sure I buy that either.

    One person thought that crossing the Jordan was anytime you exercised faith for something. I don't buy that because it would imply multiple crossings. The Israelites crossed the Jordan only once, though they did cast out multiple enemies after they got there.

    Now, I know that types don't always concretely and airtightly represent things, but somehow I have the feeling that this one has important symbolism that I'm missing.

    Anyone else have another perspective on this issue?

    -Grace
     
  2. Sleaker

    Sleaker Victory of the People

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    This is the way I've recently seen my view shift.

    Israel is a picture of Christians, Egypt is a picture of the world.

    Israel was kicked out of Egypt with the death of the Firstborn son.

    The world kicked Christians out with the death of the firstborn son, Christ.

    Now as Israel was coming out Egypt decided it didn't really want to let them go. And Israel escaped through the Red Sea. The sea was parted and they crossed on dry land, and then the army followed in and was swept away.

    This is a picture of how the world changes it's mind, it doesn't want to let them go. The army is a picture of our Sin, it comes trailing ,us trying to pull us back into bondage. But we are baptized in the water and through the spirit and lose all connection to the old self.

    [bible]1 Corinthians 10:1-4[/bible]

    1 Corinthians 10 even shows how the Israelites were baptized into Moses through the water and in the cloud. In the Gospels John preaches to be baptized for the remission of sins. he is declaring that it is through baptism that your sins are wiped away. Once baptised your sins have no power over you and begin being led by the spirit.

    As Israel walked through the desert they were led by the cloud and the Pillar of Fire, this is a picture of the Spirit Led life. We are directed by the spirit and we walk through the desert awaiting the time when we can enter the place of rest or the promise land.

    Entering the promise Land is a picture of Christians finally entering the Kingdom of God. Jesus preached the entrance of the Kingdom declaring that it was close by, or "at hand" He showed what the fruits of the kingdom were: healings, casting out demons and other things. but we haven't crossed the Jordan yet, it's my belief that we will cross into the Promise Land and enter rest, when Jesus comes on the cloud and reclaims the world after the tribulation. Jesus declared that he would come back at the last trumpet sound at the end of the tribulation, not before. I believe this is when we begin the 'conquest' of the Promised land. For there will be that great battle that Christ will lead on the white horse. Then there will be peace and rest.

    One of the reasons why we know we aren't in the Kingdom yet is because we don't see the fruit wherever we walk. How many of us do greater works than Jesus as he prophecied to the disciples saying they would do greater works than he, and the Disciples didn't enter or as Hebrews says, that promise would not still be here.

    I can give more verses if yah need.
     
    joyfulthanks likes this.
  3. In the resurrection, God perminantly transfigured physical matter in Christ to the effect of redeeming all creation. Through the person of Jesus Christ, God has begun the restoration of the creation that groans for renewal.

    And by redeeming creation in his person, Jesus Christ has allowed the Holy Spirit to indwell physical matter in a way never witnesses in the Old Testament- the perminant indwelling of the whole of the people of God. Those of us who are in Christ participate in that renewal of the physical, and it is this change in the substance of our being that lets the Holy Spirit touch us.

    In this way we are a people with one foot in the wilderness and one foot in Canaan. Christ himself is the promised land- the goal toward which we hope, which will be realized for individuals in heaven and throughout all creation at the second coming and the resurrection of the dead. By participating in the body of Christ, we stand in participation and foreshadowing of this great and glorious future- the promised land.
     
  4. Gwenyfur

    Gwenyfur Legend

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    I've heard...and haven't studied this one much...but

    that the picture of conquering Canaan is a picture of the wrathful Christ returning to conquer the world and set up His physical Kingdome
     
  5. ~Nikki~

    ~Nikki~ aka northstar

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    Here's a different aspect of the Exodus.

    If the Hebrews coming out of the Egypt is a typology of Christians coming out of the 'world'; and the Hebrews going through the wilderness is a typology of Christians going through life...

    Then, what about the fact that only two of the original people brought from Egypt actually made it to the Promised Land (type of heaven)?
     
  6. Sleaker

    Sleaker Victory of the People

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    northstar, you must remember that the Promise of rest was still there for the Israelites when they were journeying through to get to the promise land. How many generations have come before ours that haven't seen Christ's second coming? Was it because of Disobedience? maybe. And this is exactly what Hebrews and 1 Corinthians 10 attempt to remind us of. It was possible for Israel to walk through the desert 11 days to Canaan and begin inhabiting the land immediately, but because they had no faith in God, even after he had provided mana for them, parted a sea, and performed 10 miracles to get them out of egypt they still hardened their hearts against him. I think it's both a warning and also parallels what has gone on with the church already. I mean it's been 2000 years since Christ died and rose, and 40 years after that the Apostles had been preaching about Christ's second coming as if it was coming anytime in their lives. I see this is a very large '40 year' wander in the desert, don't you?
     
  7. pehkay

    pehkay Regular Member

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    Hope it helps:
    ---------------------------------

    Twelve representatives of the twelve tribes of Israel took up twelve stones from the place where the priests' feet stood firm in the middle of the Jordan and brought them over and laid them down in the place where Israel lodged that night (4:1-5, 8). The twelve stones signify the twelve tribes of the new Israel. Their being raised up from the waters of the Jordan signifies resurrection from death. The twelve stones raised up from the water were a sign, signifying that the resurrected new Israel would be a testimony of the crossing of the death water (vv. 6-7, 21-24). This typifies the believers' experience with Christ of the resurrection from death (Rom. 6:3-11).

    Joshua erected twelve stones in the middle of the Jordan, in the place where the feet of the priests who carried the ark had stood (Josh. 4:9). These were another twelve stones, signifying the twelve tribes of Israel in their old life and in their old nature. Joshua erected these twelve stones in the middle of the Jordan where the ark was, signifying that the Lord wanted Israel in their old nature to remain under the death water of the Jordan. This typifies that the old man of the believers should remain in the death of Christ (Rom. 6:6; Col. 2:20). We who have been identified with Christ in His death and resurrection, who have been resurrected with Christ to become the new man, should leave our old man under His death. We should all be able to declare that our old man has been buried with Christ and remains under the death of Christ and that we are the new man.

    The people of Israel were ready to enter into the good land and to take it as their possession. However, in their old man they could not gain the victory. Their old man had to be buried so that they could become a new man.

    The children of Israel were buried in the death of Christ and then they were resurrected in the resurrection of Christ. This indicates that even in the Old Testament time the children of Israel were identified with Christ and were one with Him. Because they were one with Christ, passing through Christ's experiences, His history became their history. In particular, they passed through Christ's death to bury their old man and to become a new man in Christ for the fighting of the spiritual warfare.
     
  8. Sleaker

    Sleaker Victory of the People

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    I like the picture, but doesn't 1 Corinthians 10 say the same basic thing in reference to Israel crossing the Red Sea and not the Jordan?
     
  9. pehkay

    pehkay Regular Member

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    Yup.

    Only the passing of the children of Israel through the Red Sea (Exo. 14:21-30) typifies the baptism of the New Testament believers (Rom. 6:4). Christ is their real Passover (redemption) and lamb eaten (life).
    He is the redeeming Lamb of God (1:29, 36) slain for us that we may eat His flesh and drink His blood (John 6), taking Him in as our life supply that we may live by Him.

    The Rea Sea is from the aspect of salvation.

    The Jordan is more for aspect of experience of death and resurrection to terminate our natural man, our old man. This is needed because our old man, natural man is not qualified to fight the spiritual warfare for the gaining of Christ.

    The first water crossing, that of the Red Sea, delivered them from Egypt. The second water crossing, that of the Jordan, delivered them from wandering in the wilderness and ushered them into the good land. If in your experience, after baptism (Red Sea) , you experience and enjoy Christ as the good land, then there is no need of "crossing river Jordan". But 99.5% of the time, YES, we "wondered in the wilderness". So we need cross river Jordan. :D
     
  10. Sleaker

    Sleaker Victory of the People

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    hmm that seems a bit wierd of a picture. Wouldn't you begin experiencing Christ the moment you stepped over the Red Sea, I mean it says that they drank from the spiritual rock of Christ. It seems like what you're saying is that you can be a Christian and not experience Christ which I'd say if you have never experienced Christ you have never crossed the Red Sea. :eek:

    The crossing of the Jordan shouldn't be about a second salvation, it can't be. Because the salvation has already taken place, they are already set free. Once you cross the Red Sea it's all about obedience. As James puts it, faith being mixed with works.

    See there was no deliverance from wandering in the wilderness, God swore that the generation would not enter his rest because of disobedience. Then he allowed the next ones to enter the land because they followed his ways, atleast for a while.
     
  11. Zadok7000

    Zadok7000 Awake and Sober

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    "Jordan" = to go down/descend
    Yashua in the Jordan (Josh. 4) pointed to Yashua in the Jordan (Matt. 3, Mark 1, Luke 3, John 1). :)
     
  12. ~Nikki~

    ~Nikki~ aka northstar

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    Thanks for the reply.

    In answer, no I don't. I see each of our own personal lives as a 'wander' in the desert, with the Promised Land as our making it to heaven after our own personal walk through the wilderness (life).

    I see the Israelites as symbolising 'all' Christians, and I see the two that made it to the Promised Land as a symbol that not all so called 'Christians' will actually get to heaven, but only those who do the will of the Father, as per Jesus' saying in Matthew 7...

    :)
     
  13. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus I AM WHAT I AM

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    Hi. Interesting thread as I use Exodus and Joshua to study revelation.
    I found this interesting concerning the "Destroyer" in Revelation 9
    'abaddown (Strong's 011) occurs 6 times in 6 verses: [Used in Job and Prov].
    'abaddoh (Strong's 010). There is one verse containing the word

    http://www.christianforums.com/t4559751-revelation-a-jewish-polemic-book.html
    -revelation-a-jewish-polemic-book
     
  14. pehkay

    pehkay Regular Member

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    Then read Hebrews. :D

    Er .. sorry if I did not made things clear ... sorry. I did not say you will not experience Christ in the wilderness (water, rock, fire, wind etc). But the real goal is the good land. This is where the temple will be built (which typifies the church or Body of Christ). The enjoyment of Christ in the good land eventually issues in the building up of God's house.

    We all the eternal life as Christian. But this divine life needs to mature as overcoming believers. Where can we mature? In the church. The church (as the gathering of believers) is the proper field, the proper farm, where we can grow into maturity.

    This is why in Hebrews, the writer told the wandering Hebrew Christians to stop wandering, come into the church life, and enter into today's Sabbath which would bring them into the better Sabbath of the millennial kingdom. If they missed the church life, they would be like their fathers who wandered in the wilderness, fell there, and died.


     
  15. Sleaker

    Sleaker Victory of the People

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    Hmm, I still disagree, Hebrews doesn't talk about church life. It talks about Hearing the voice of God. the First commandment that was given to Moses during those 40 years was "Hear O Israel........ The Lord your God is One" emphasis on the Hear. It's about hearing God and obeying his voice. the emphasis isn't on community, the Israelites already had great community, they refused to see God's provision and obey. The promised Land (Kingdom of Heaven/God) is entered through obedience to the Holy Spirit.

    A 'church' or gathering of believers is a side effect of Obedience, which stems from love. It is not the ultimate goal.
     
  16. joyfulthanks

    joyfulthanks The long day is over. Praise the Lord!

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    I'm really appreciating the discussion here. Though I don't agree with all, I find the different views very interesting.

    -Grace
     
  17. Neither is obedience.

    Moreover, the church is not a side effect. The church is a preexisting structure created by Christ where people come to be saved. It is the Noah's Ark for all the world.
     
  18. Sleaker

    Sleaker Victory of the People

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    Did you know that Ephesians 2:6 says that we are already in heaven, Hebrews also states it..

    [bible]Ephesians 2:5-6[/bible]
    [bible]Hebrews 12:22-23[/bible]


    CorpusChristi:
    mm, the Church is christ's body, it's not completely about being saved, being saved is only the entrance. Like Moses in Exodus, he didn't preach salvation from Egypt. In the same way Christ didn't preach Salvation from sins. Both of them preached the promised land, which is the Kingdom of God/Heaven. Salvation is a necessity to get to the promised land but it is not the ultimate Goal. The goal that God has for us is communion with him, walking in his ways. The only way we can do this is through obedience, thus you are correct, obedience is not the goal, it is the way through which we see God, and the way through which we draw close to God. That's out of 1 - 3 John. Obedience as seen in 1 John is all about love.
     
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