Exactly what part of the Law has been abolished?

[Soyeong]

Are you referring to John 13:34-35 in which Jesus's says " A new commandment I give to you that you love one another. as I have loved you.....".
I believe it shows that keeping God's commandments was an expression of love and does become a "new" and more encompassing command in governing human relationships
Does this 'new" Christian love do away or change any part of the Law (the Ten Commandments). I don't think so.
It magnifies the love Christians must have toward their fellow men. This new spiritual intent goes far beyond the letter of the Ten Commandments-but does not replace them.

God commanded His people to love our neighbor in Leviticus 19:18, so that wasn't a new commandment so much as it was a new example of how to obey it. It doesn't do away with any other the other commands because they are examples that explain how we should love God and love our neighbor.

Are there any OT commands we are to keep in the New Testament other then the 10 commandments?

There are many more commands in the OT than just 10 and none of the verses you quoted in your previous post limited it to just 10 of them.

 

[jacobs well]

God commanded His people to love our neighbor in Leviticus 19:18, so that wasn't a new commandment so much as it was a new example of how to obey it. It doesn't do away with any other the other commands because they are examples that explain how we should love God and love our neighbor.



There are many more commands in the OT than just 10 and none of the verses you quoted in your previous post limited it to just 10 of them.

True. But when Jesus was asked what do we have to do to enter eternal life (salvation), He said keep my commandments. The person asked which commandments did He mean. Jesus went on to explain clearly that it was the 10 commandments and He named some, murder, adultery, steal, etc. to validate keeping the Law of God was the only way to enter life-our main goal or end.
When ever the " Law" is mentioned in the bible it refers to the 10 commandments.
Old Testament laws like the distinctions between clean and unclean meats were judgments that were applied to the Law as an identifying characteristic of God's people.
Were they physical laws, if broken, would result in eternal damnation or just physical consequences-unlike the 10 commandments which had a permanent outcome of eternal death.

 

[Soyeong]

True. But when Jesus was asked what do we have to do to enter eternal life (salvation), He said keep my commandments. The person asked which commandments did He mean. Jesus went on to explain clearly that it was the 10 commandments and He named some, murder, adultery, steal, etc. to validate keeping the Law of God was the only way to enter life-our main goal or end.

Jesus was not saying that we are saved by keeping the 10 commandments, but rather it was a heart issue. We need to deny ourselves to follow him by faith and the 10 commandments are examples of how were are to express our faith and the rest of the laws explain how we are to keep the 10 commandments.

When ever the " Law" is mentioned in the bible it refers to the 10 commandments.

No, "nomos" generally means the "Torah" or the first five books of Moses, which includes all of Mosaic law.

Old Testament laws like the distinctions between clean and unclean meats were judgments that were applied to the Law as an identifying characteristic of God's people.

1 Peter 2:9-10 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

We are included among God's people and thus God's laws for how His people should behave apply to us.

Were they physical laws, if broken, would result in eternal damnation or just physical consequences-unlike the 10 commandments which had a permanent outcome of eternal death.

The Mosaic law is what gives us knowledge of sin and the wages of any sin is death.

 

[jacobs well]

Jesus was not saying that we are saved by keeping the 10 commandments, but rather it was a heart issue. We need to deny ourselves to follow him by faith and the 10 commandments are examples of how were are to express our faith and the rest of the laws explain how we are to keep the 10 commandments.



When Jesus answers the question what must we do to be saved with " Keep the commandments ' it seems perfectly clear what He meant. The ten commandments are the standards of conduct we must follow so as not to transgress the law.
When Jesus says do not think that I came to destroy the law-what was he referring to?
In James 2:8-11, he shows that God's royal law of love includes the 10 commandments-what is the law referring to here?The 10 commandments of course. We are transgressors of the law like doing murder, which is the 6th commandment, as the scripture says?



No, "nomos" generally means the "Torah" or the first five books of Moses, which includes all of Mosaic law.


The 10 commandments are eternal principles from the time of creation and are included in the Biblical laws.
They are God's laws before Moses's time.
Nomos has a broad range of meanings.



1 Peter 2:9-10 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.


We are included among God's people and thus God's laws for how His people should behave apply to us.



Is Peter speaking of God's church-God's assembly-called out from this world as a spiritual nation?



The Mosaic law is what gives us knowledge of sin and the wages of any sin is death.

The 10 commandments preceded the Mosaic law and defined sin from creation.

Sorry but somehow my responses ended up in your quotes.
click to expand

 

[Soyeong]

Sorry but somehow my responses ended up in your quotes.
click to expand

It happens if you forget to close a quote tag. It'll automatically add the tag at the end, so you just need to add it where you missed it and delete it from the end to fix it.

 

[1watchman]

As stated already, the keeping of the Ten Commandments is ordinance for Israel, and standards for the Church today. Let us not confuse the Israelite religion of strict obedience (as they asked for) with the Church (Bride of Christ) in this age ---our privilege to honor God. We who are "born again" will not be killed for failing, but will forfeit much at the Judgment Seat of Christ in Heaven for dishonoring God.

 

[ebedmelech]

All of law is abolished at the cross when Jesus had perfectly kept God's law and sacrificed Himself as the offering for sin (which is breaking any of God's laws.

It's just as Ephesians 2 states...you pick out Ephesians 2:15...but you have to let the entire passage complete what it means. The entirety of is chapter 2.

 

[jacobs well]

All of law is abolished at the cross when Jesus had perfectly kept God's law and sacrificed Himself as the offering for sin (which is breaking any of God's laws.

It's just as Ephesians 2 states...you pick out Ephesians 2:15...but you have to let the entire passage complete what it means. The entirety of is chapter 2.

The Law defines sin - " ...for sin is the transgression of the law "- 1 John 3:4
Christ came and brought us a New Covenant, a better covenant (Heb 8:6) which was based on better promises.
But it was not established on different laws. The laws stayed the same.
Jesus and the apostles verified the Ten Commandments as necessary for true Christian living.
Paul kept and taught obedience to the law decades after the crucifixion. Romans 2:13
Paul says faith does not abolish, but rather establishes, the law. Romans 3:31
When we sin, we incur a debt-a death penalty-Romans 6:23
This death penalty is the curse of the law. Jesus Christ's death on the cross redeemed us from that curse-Gal 3:13.
The law of God cannot be a curse-Paul himself said the law was holy, just, and good. Romans 7:12
When Paul says that we are no longer under the law, he means we are no longer under the penalty of the law-death.
When Jesus returns the Bible says the law will go forth out of Jerusalem and all people will have to obey it then, as they should now.

 

[ebedmelech]

The Law defines sin - " ...for sin is the transgression of the law "- 1 John 3:4

Make the proper distinction of what is said there in Ephesians. We know the Ten Commandments are the moral law. They will be the standard by which Jesus judges the lost. What is abolished is the Ceremonial Laws which includes all the laws concerning sacrifice for sin, as well as the all of the feasts given under the Old Covenant. They are fulfilled in Christ on the cross.

It is clear because just as Paul teaches "the law is written on the heart"...Romans 2:14-16.
Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant...keeping it perfectly so that He can be the sacrifice for sin.

Christ came and brought us a New Covenant, a better covenant (Heb 8:6) which was based on better promises. But it was not established on different laws. The laws stayed the same.

If the laws stayed the same why do we not sacrifice animals for our sins and keep the feasts? Instead of that, we look to Christ.

Jesus and the apostles verified the Ten Commandments as necessary for true Christian living.

That's the point I'm making!

Paul kept and taught obedience to the law decades after the crucifixion. Romans 2:13
Paul says faith does not abolish, but rather establishes, the law. Romans 3:31
When we sin, we incur a debt-a death penalty-Romans 6:23
This death penalty is the curse of the law. Jesus Christ's death on the cross redeemed us from that curse-Gal 3:13.
The law of God cannot be a curse-Paul himself said the law was holy, just, and good. Romans 7:12
When Paul says that we are no longer under the law, he means we are no longer under the penalty of the law-death.

You're quite correct, but don't you notice Paul NEVER observes the Ceremonial Law? That is what is abolished. Ephesians 2:15-16 makes it clear:
15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,
16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

The "Law of commandments contained in ordinances" are all the laws of sacrifice and feast observance. When we sin we look to Christ, knowing He sacrificed Himself for our sins

When Jesus returns the Bible says the law will go forth out of Jerusalem and all people will have to obey it then, as they should now.

No...it doesn't say that exactly. What you have in mind is Isaiah 2:3:
3 And many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths.” For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

This is a reference to Christ Himself and following Him as Messiah. Compare that to Hebrews 12:22-24:
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

That's the point of Isaiah 2:3! It's about coming to Christ!

 

[jacobs well]

Make the proper distinction of what is said there in Ephesians. We know the Ten Commandments are the moral law. They will be the standard by which Jesus judges the lost. What is abolished is the Ceremonial Laws which includes all the laws concerning sacrifice for sin, as well as the all of the feasts given under the Old Covenant. They are fulfilled in Christ on the cross.

It is clear because just as Paul teaches "the law is written on the heart"...Romans 2:14-16.
Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant...keeping it perfectly so that He can be the sacrifice for sin.

If the laws stayed the same why do we not sacrifice animals for our sins and keep the feasts? Instead of that, we look to Christ.

That's the point I'm making!



You're quite correct, but don't you notice Paul NEVER observes the Ceremonial Law? That is what is abolished. Ephesians 2:15-16 makes it clear:
15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,
16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

The "Law of commandments contained in ordinances" are all the laws of sacrifice and feast observance. When we sin we look to Christ, knowing He sacrificed Himself for our sins

No...it doesn't say that exactly. What you have in mind is Isaiah 2:3:
3 And many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths.” For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

This is a reference to Christ Himself and following Him as Messiah. Compare that to Hebrews 12:22-24:
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels,
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

That's the point of Isaiah 2:3! It's about coming to Christ!

I acknowledge the ceremonial and animal sacrificial laws are no longer required. They were temporary aspects of the Old Covenant until everything they symbolized was fulfilled by or through Christ. Jesus is now our High Priest and mediator.
But feast day observances, like Passover, and Unleavened bread, were still in place and were kept and taught by Jesus and the apostles long after the resurrection. We observe them now with a new spiritual intent- 1 Cor 5:6-8. They are memorial observances commanded to be kept forever.

 

[ebedmelech]

I acknowledge the ceremonial and animal sacrificial laws are no longer required. They were temporary aspects of the Old Covenant until everything they symbolized was fulfilled by or through Christ. Jesus is now our High Priest and mediator.

True.

But feast day observances, like Passover, and Unleavened bread, were still in place and were kept and taught by Jesus and the apostles long after the resurrection. We observe them now with a new spiritual intent- 1 Cor 5:6-8. They are memorial observances commanded to be kept forever.

This is were we have a disagreement. Jesus fulfilled EVERY FEAST. Your reference to 1 Corinthians 5:6-8 is is referring to the SYMBOLISM of the feasts...note verse 8:
8 For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.

The point in this passage is that Christ IS THE PASSOVER LAMB. The passage is NOT referring to all the feasts...it's talking about Christ fulfilling Passover, which is done on the cross.

*John The Baptist called Jesus "the LAMB of God which takes away the sin of the world"...that is pointing to the fact that Jesus would be without sin. Figuratively leaven is sin...that's why Israel had to remove ALL leaven from their house and the bread was to be without leaven! The Passover lamb was to have no defects and none of it's bones were to be broken. It was to be eaten with bitter herbs pointing to the suffering of Christ.

Christ being the fulfillment of EVERY feast is clearly stated in Colossians 2:16-19
16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—
17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

The point being Christ fulfilled ALL OF THE FEASTS. What we should see spiritually is HOW Christ fulfilled them and how it makes us COMPLETE in Him.

 

[jacobs well]

True.

This is were we have a disagreement. Jesus fulfilled EVERY FEAST. Your reference to 1 Corinthians 5:6-8 is is referring to the SYMBOLISM of the feasts...note verse 8:
8 For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.

The point in this passage is that Christ IS THE PASSOVER LAMB. The passage is NOT referring to all the feasts...it's talking about Christ fulfilling Passover, which is done on the cross.

*John The Baptist called Jesus "the LAMB of God which takes away the sin of the world"...that is pointing to the fact that Jesus would be without sin. Figuratively leaven is sin...that's why Israel had to remove ALL leaven from their house and the bread was to be without leaven! The Passover lamb was to have no defects and none of it's bones were to be broken. It was to be eaten with bitter herbs pointing to the suffering of Christ.

Christ being the fulfillment of EVERY feast is clearly stated in Colossians 2:16-19
16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—
17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

The point being Christ fulfilled ALL OF THE FEASTS. What we should see spiritually is HOW Christ fulfilled them and how it makes us COMPLETE in Him.

We have to look at the 7 Biblical Holy days in their New Testament perspective.
Jesus is represented in each Holy Day festival.
Passover-as you say is that Christ is the Passover Lamb. The observance of this first Holy day is a reminder of the sacrifice and death of Christ as the way to eternal life through Him.
God instituted the Passover and the other festivals as permanent observances -Ex 12:24
Days of unleavened bread represent leaving sin by partaking of the true Bread of life.
Pentecost reminds us that God is the Lord of His harvest-choosing and preparing the firstfruits of His coming Kingdom
The Feast of trumpets pictures a time when the dead in Christ will be resurrected to life
The Day off Atonement represents humanity's need to be reconciled to God through the forgiveness of sin
the feast of Tabernacles pictures the 1,000 reign of Jesus Christ.
The Last Great day represents the great judgment of humankind.
The church of the first century followed Jesus example of observing these days.
Jesus has not yet fulfilled all these feast days-many of them foreshadow things of which have yet to come.

! Cor 5 plainly tells us to " keep the feast " Paul is telling Gentile converts to keep this annual Holy day using unleavened bread which represents the removal of sin from our lives.

No man had the divine authority to make unholy a Holy Day Feast that belonged to God/
In Col 2:16 Paul is actually confirming and explaining the value of God's feast days to Christians.
The Colossian heretics had no authority to judge anyone as to how the Colossians observed God's festivals
That's why Paul said ' let no man judge you....." not the judgment of God.anywhere in scriptures.
Nothing in Col 2 even suggests God abolished his Holy day festivals.

the Holy days give us an overview of God's great plan of salvation

Will we be keeping the Feast days when Christ returns - Zechariah 14:16-19

Why not start now to keep the feast days of God instead of the festivals of men?

 

[ebedmelech]

We have to look at the 7 Biblical Holy days in their New Testament perspective.
Jesus is represented in each Holy Day festival.
Passover-as you say is that Christ is the Passover Lamb. The observance of this first Holy day is a reminder of the sacrifice and death of Christ as the way to eternal life through Him.

Not according to Jesus and John the Baptist. John said in John 1:29
29 The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Jesus is the Passover Lamb! There are no more! As Hebrews 9:23-28 says. Read that passage...it's very clear Christ was offered ONCE! That was the end of all the Ceremonial Laws and feasts!

God instituted the Passover and the other festivals as permanent observances -Ex 12:24
Days of unleavened bread represent leaving sin by partaking of the true Bread of life.

Which is fulfillment as Jesus ask the poignant question "which of you can convict me of sin"? His point is that He was the passover lamb. There is no reason to observe something fulfilled. The church meets on the first day of the week because that is when Christ was risen.

When the Lord instituted the New Covenant He said we were to do one thing in remembrance of Him and that was communion. He said NOTHING of feast keeping because as He said in Matthew 5:17:
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
Jesus fulfilled every bit of the Law!

Pentecost reminds us that God is the Lord of His harvest-choosing and preparing the firstfruits of His coming Kingdom

Pentecost is about the harvest of people from ALL THE NATIONS. That's why Pentecost is the only feast where the offering was made with leaven, it speaks to the inclusion of ALL PEOPLE. Israel was no longer God's covenant people. A huge error many make.

The Feast of trumpets pictures a time when the dead in Christ will be resurrected to life

That's right...but don't forget that trumpet call speaks to Christ victory over sin and the grave. This is why in the most complete chapter on resurrection (1 Corinthians 15), it doesn't even speak to the feast of trumpets because Christ fulfilled that when He rose from the dead.

The Day off Atonement represents humanity's need to be reconciled to God through the forgiveness of sin
the feast of Tabernacles pictures the 1,000 reign of Jesus Christ.

No. The day of atonement speaks of Christ as our High Priest as Hebrews 9:11 says! Once again...fulfilled!

The Last Great day represents the great judgment of humankind.
The church of the first century followed Jesus example of observing these days.

Please show one example in scripture that makes that point.

Jesus has not yet fulfilled all these feast days-many of them foreshadow things of which have yet to come.

You can think so...but have you ever carefully read Romans 10:4?:
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Please reconcile that with what you're saying because it says the opposite.

Have you read Galatians 3:24-26?:
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Do you notice none of anything says what you say? You cannot find the apostles observing feasts except for the reason of preaching the gospel to the Jews...that's the ONLY reason the did so.

! Cor 5 plainly tells us to " keep the feast " Paul is telling Gentile converts to keep this annual Holy day using unleavened bread which represents the removal of sin from our lives.

Go read it again. It's figurative speaking of not committing sin as keeping the feast. The passage is about the church of Corinth allowing sin int the church...and even speaks of sin as "leaven"...look at verse 8:
8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

No man had the divine authority to make unholy a Holy Day Feast that belonged to God/
In Col 2:16 Paul is actually confirming and explaining the value of God's feast days to Christians.
The Colossian heretics had no authority to judge anyone as to how the Colossians observed God's festivals
That's why Paul said ' let no man judge you....." not the judgment of God.anywhere in scriptures.
Nothing in Col 2 even suggests God abolished his Holy day festivals.

the Holy days give us an overview of God's great plan of salvation

Will we be keeping the Feast days when Christ returns - Zechariah 14:16-19

Why not start now to keep the feast days of God instead of the festivals of men?

Explain why Paul is telling the Colossian saints not to allow anyone to judge them because they DON'T observe the feasts...or even show one example of the apostles keeping the feast...THEY DIDN'T!

They were in the temple on the first Pentecost after the Lord Jesus ascended to preach the gospel of the New Covenant!

How is it you read Hebrews 9 and respond trying to keep feasts that are fulfilled in Christ? Do a careful read of it paying attention to verses 1-14...it annihilates your thinking because it speaks of Christ as the direct fulfillment of those feasts.

He is the mediator of a NEW COVENANT and the fulfillment of the Old Covenant. If you want to observe feasts, I don't have a problem with it...but I believe scripture Christ is THE END OF THE LAW to EVERYONE who believes!!!

 

[jacobs well]

Not according to Jesus and John the Baptist. John said in John 1:29
29 The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Jesus is the Passover Lamb! There are no more! As Hebrews 9:23-28 says. Read that passage...it's very clear Christ was offered ONCE! That was the end of all the Ceremonial Laws and feasts!


Which is fulfillment as Jesus ask the poignant question "which of you can convict me of sin"? His point is that He was the passover lamb. There is no reason to observe something fulfilled. The church meets on the first day of the week because that is when Christ was risen.

When the Lord instituted the New Covenant He said we were to do one thing in remembrance of Him and that was communion. He said NOTHING of feast keeping because as He said in Matthew 5:17:
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
Jesus fulfilled every bit of the Law!

Pentecost is about the harvest of people from ALL THE NATIONS. That's why Pentecost is the only feast where the offering was made with leaven, it speaks to the inclusion of ALL PEOPLE. Israel was no longer God's covenant people. A huge error many make.

That's right...but don't forget that trumpet call speaks to Christ victory over sin and the grave. This is why in the most complete chapter on resurrection (1 Corinthians 15), it doesn't even speak to the feast of trumpets because Christ fulfilled that when He rose from the dead.

No. The day of atonement speaks of Christ as our High Priest as Hebrews 9:11 says! Once again...fulfilled!

Please show one example in scripture that makes that point.

You can think so...but have you ever carefully read Romans 10:4?:
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Please reconcile that with what you're saying because it says the opposite.

Have you read Galatians 3:24-26?:


24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Do you notice none of anything says what you say? You cannot find the apostles observing feasts except for the reason of preaching the gospel to the Jews...that's the ONLY reason the did so.

Go read it again. It's figurative speaking of not committing sin as keeping the feast. The passage is about the church of Corinth allowing sin int the church...and even speaks of sin as "leaven"...look at verse 8:
8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Explain why Paul is telling the Colossian saints not to allow anyone to judge them because they DON'T observe the feasts...or even show one example of the apostles keeping the feast...THEY DIDN'T!

They were in the temple on the first Pentecost after the Lord Jesus ascended to preach the gospel of the New Covenant!

How is it you read Hebrews 9 and respond trying to keep feasts that are fulfilled in Christ? Do a careful read of it paying attention to verses 1-14...it annihilates your thinking because it speaks of Christ as the direct fulfillment of those feasts.

He is the mediator of a NEW COVENANT and the fulfillment of the Old Covenant. If you want to observe feasts, I don't have a problem with it...but I believe scripture Christ is THE END OF THE LAW to EVERYONE who believes!!!

The contradiction that stands out most is that Jesus says He came not to destroy the law. Yet people think He did just that in the sense that fulfilling it (completing) ended it all. Christ's sacrifice for our sins is commanded to be observed annually using the symbols of bread and wine representing His body and His blood-our observance of this annual occasion marking Jesus's death -1 Cor 11:26-is the starting point for salvation and the foundation of the annual feast days that follow.
Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament feast days by setting the example for us to follow by celebrating the feast days during His ministry, as did the apostles.
Jesus told us to do as he does, and walk as He does.
There was no command to discard the Holy days of God which are more important today for Christians with their spiritual meaning than they were for the Israelites of the OT.
God's holy days today, even though some have been consummated, are reminders of what they represent and are to be kept as memorials of Gods plan for salvation for mankind. They are to be commemorated today to worship and honor Him.
We celebrate veterans day and independence day, etc. as annual memorials to certain important events in man's history. We should do the same for God's special events. Paul in Col 2:17 " they are a shadow of things to come ".
Why would anyone want to keep man made traditions and feast days versus God ordained Holy Days that should be kept in remembrance of meaningful events that commemorate important occasions of redemptive history along with future promises of the Kingdom of God.
There are examples of Jesus and the apostles keeping the feast days in the NT and just by that we should follow what they do.
If the feast days of God were dismissed in the NT there would have been an uproar or outrage that would have been a prominent part of NT scripture.
Even something minor like circumcision not being required for gentiles brought a fury of condemnation that required a special conference to convene in Jerusalem for all the apostles to debate this smaller issue.
I don't have time now but tomorrow will go over the apostles teaching of the OT laws and Holy Days which were the only ones that they referred to since a New Testament had not been written yet. In the years that followed the crucifixion you would think the apostles would be aware of the revoking of God's Holy days for future Christians.
Reading into scripture, if taken out of context of the big overall picture, can misdirect people to believe all is done away with now, since Christ nailed everything to the cross, as some would say. The real truth is that it's just the beginning.
As far as Gal 3:24-26 goes
The law shows us what is sin and what is not sin.
Observing the law does not justify us but it teaches us what is right or wrong.
we are under the Laws penalties if left to our own devices and apart from Christ's sacrifice for all mankind.
Our reliance has shifted from our efforts to complete trust in Christ.
We should follow and live our lives as members of God's family by doing what He says and walk according to the way He walked.
There is nothing that destroys God's Holy days here-the word under does not invalidate the criteria upon which righteousness is defined.

 

[Viren]

The law is put aside like training wheels are put aside once you learn how to ride a bike. Once you are led by the Spirit the law isn't needed anymore. Once you take the training wheels off it doesn't mean you are free to fall over and over again riding your bike. Why would you? Also, there's a reason competitive bicycle racers don't continue to have training wheels attached to their bikes. They get in the way.

 

[ebedmelech]

The contradiction that stands out most is that Jesus says He came not to destroy the law. Yet people think He did just that in the sense that fulfilling it (completing) ended it all. Christ's sacrifice for our sins is commanded to be observed annually using the symbols of bread and wine representing His body and His blood-our observance of this annual occasion marking Jesus's death -1 Cor 11:26-is the starting point for salvation and the foundation of the annual feast days that follow.
Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament feast days by setting the example for us to follow by celebrating the feast days during His ministry, as did the apostles.
Jesus told us to do as he does, and walk as He does.
There was no command to discard the Holy days of God which are more important today for Christians with their spiritual meaning than they were for the Israelites of the OT.
God's holy days today, even though some have been consummated, are reminders of what they represent and are to be kept as memorials of Gods plan for salvation for mankind. They are to be commemorated today to worship and honor Him.
We celebrate veterans day and independence day, etc. as annual memorials to certain important events in man's history. We should do the same for God's special events. Paul in Col 2:17 " they are a shadow of things to come ".
Why would anyone want to keep man made traditions and feast days versus God ordained Holy Days that should be kept in remembrance of meaningful events that commemorate important occasions of redemptive history along with future promises of the Kingdom of God.
There are examples of Jesus and the apostles keeping the feast days in the NT and just by that we should follow what they do.
If the feast days of God were dismissed in the NT there would have been an uproar or outrage that would have been a prominent part of NT scripture.
Even something minor like circumcision not being required for gentiles brought a fury of condemnation that required a special conference to convene in Jerusalem for all the apostles to debate this smaller issue.
I don't have time now but tomorrow will go over the apostles teaching of the OT laws and Holy Days which were the only ones that they referred to since a New Testament had not been written yet. In the years that followed the crucifixion you would think the apostles would be aware of the revoking of God's Holy days for future Christians.
Reading into scripture, if taken out of context of the big overall picture, can misdirect people to believe all is done away with now, since Christ nailed everything to the cross, as some would say. The real truth is that it's just the beginning.
As far as Gal 3:24-26 goes
The law shows us what is sin and what is not sin.
Observing the law does not justify us but it teaches us what is right or wrong.
we are under the Laws penalties if left to our own devices and apart from Christ's sacrifice for all mankind.
Our reliance has shifted from our efforts to complete trust in Christ.
We should follow and live our lives as members of God's family by doing what He says and walk according to the way He walked.
There is nothing that destroys God's Holy days here-the word under does not invalidate the criteria upon which righteousness is defined.

You can continue to think that...but go ahead and tear Galatians out of your bible. It destroys your logic above. What you're doing is explaining away the scriptures and minimizing the work of Christ. Start with Galatians 2:21:
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

Galatians 5
It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

Obviously you don't understand the FREEDOM Christ set us free of is keeping the Law.

Hebrews 10:1-10:
For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.
2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins?
3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year.
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, “Sacrifice and offering You have not desired, But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come (In the scroll of the book it is written of Me) To do Your will, O God.’”
8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law),
9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second.
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Also, in saying that Christ told the apostles to walk as He walked...you've read into that command. If Christ wanted to say "keep the feasts" He would have said that. Instead He said "this is THE NEW COVENANT in my blood". When He said that every bit of the Old Covenant was obsolete after the cross.

BTW...you couldn't show ONE verse telling Christians to keep the feast days...why?

Not one apostle wrote anything of keeping the feast...why? When you do your research on that...you might understand.

At the Council at Jerusalem in Acts 15...why did they apostles conclude Gentiles didn't have to keep the Law, Acts 15:24-28 is their conclusion. Why doesn't it say "keep the feast days"?

 

[Mister_Al]

The Law of Moses was a covenant between God and Israel and not between God and the world. The gentiles had no part in it and it NEVER applied to them (see Ephesians 2:11-12). It doesn't benefit us to try and follow a covenant that never applied to us.

I'm righteous before God through Jesus and not because I followed a set of laws and I'm led by the Spirit and not by a set of rules. If I mess up the Spirit will tell me so and He will forgive me when I ask for forgiveness.

Blessings,

Alan

 

[rnmomof7]

St Paul, speaking in the context of Jew and Gentile being brought together, declares that the "law of commandments" were abolished.

"For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two." (Ephesians 2:15)

Exactly what law (or part of law) is that which is 'expressed in ordinances', and abolished? Is he referring to the Mosaic system in its entirety, or does it only refer to the ceremonial aspects pertaining to feasts and temple sacrifices.

The purpose of the law is to bring people to the knowledge that they can not save themselves... they need a Savior.

Thus those that have been fulfilled IN CHRIST for those that have repented and believed in Christ..

Remember heaven will be as full of sinners as hell ...the difference is that those in hell have no savior

 

[jacobs well]

You can continue to think that...but go ahead and tear Galatians out of your bible. It destroys your logic above. What you're doing is explaining away the scriptures and minimizing the work of Christ. Start with Galatians 2:21:
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

Galatians 5
It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

Obviously you don't understand the FREEDOM Christ set us free of is keeping the Law.

Hebrews 10:1-10:
For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.
2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins?
3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year.
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, “Sacrifice and offering You have not desired, But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come (In the scroll of the book it is written of Me) To do Your will, O God.’”
8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law),
9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second.
10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Also, in saying that Christ told the apostles to walk as He walked...you've read into that command. If Christ wanted to say "keep the feasts" He would have said that. Instead He said "this is THE NEW COVENANT in my blood". When He said that every bit of the Old Covenant was obsolete after the cross.

BTW...you couldn't show ONE verse telling Christians to keep the feast days...why?

Not one apostle wrote anything of keeping the feast...why? When you do your research on that...you might understand.

At the Council at Jerusalem in Acts 15...why did they apostles conclude Gentiles didn't have to keep the Law, Acts 15:24-28 is their conclusion. Why doesn't it say "keep the feast days"?

Sorry, computer was down for 3 or 4 days.
But continuing, we can hurl verses around trying to justify reasons to ignore or cancel God's commandment but in the end we must use Jesus authority as the absolute supremacy on scripture and the truth.
Every verse can exact a different interpretation if you ask 10 Christians sometimes.
Jesus set the example for us to follow -1 John 2:6
There is nowhere in the NT Jesus commanded us in clear terms to cancel the Holy day festivals. He did continue to celebrate them along with the apostles, who continued also long after Jesus time on earth.- Matt 26:17, John 7:8-10
the apostles in the NT continued walking in the footsteps and following the example Jesus. -Acts 2:1, 12:2-4
there are many more.
The Emcyclopedia Brittanica states it is " abundantly clear Christ and the disciples kept God's holy day festivals"
When Paul says to gentile converts ' let us keep the feast ..." that is a command or instruction to keep it. Not to ignore it-but applying the symbols with better attributes of sincerity and truth.
You quote different scriptures explaining righteousness and grace and the freedom we now have - but that freedom is the freedom from the curse of the law-not the freedom to walk away from the commandments of God
If Jesus came to do away with the commandments/law there would have been no need for Jesus to die on the cross for us since " where there is no law or commandment, there is no transgression' - Rom 4:15
Why the Jerusalem conference did not bring up the feast days or the 7th Sabbath is because they were not in contention. They were in full force in those days and years later while the apostles spread the gospel abroad to the gentiles and at home.
Circumcision was the only item in contention.
I believe the main issue is Jesus fulfilled the Holy days by fulfilling or magnifying their meaning and whether we should continue those observances in remembrance of their significance.
Do we have the right to lay aside the feast days ordained by God to establish our own man made traditions?

 

[jacobs well]

Not according to Jesus and John the Baptist. John said in John 1:29
29 The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Jesus is the Passover Lamb! There are no more! As Hebrews 9:23-28 says. Read that passage...it's very clear Christ was offered ONCE! That was the end of all the Ceremonial Laws and feasts!


Which is fulfillment as Jesus ask the poignant question "which of you can convict me of sin"? His point is that He was the passover lamb. There is no reason to observe something fulfilled. The church meets on the first day of the week because that is when Christ was risen.

When the Lord instituted the New Covenant He said we were to do one thing in remembrance of Him and that was communion. He said NOTHING of feast keeping because as He said in Matthew 5:17:
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
Jesus fulfilled every bit of the Law!

Pentecost is about the harvest of people from ALL THE NATIONS. That's why Pentecost is the only feast where the offering was made with leaven, it speaks to the inclusion of ALL PEOPLE. Israel was no longer God's covenant people. A huge error many make.

That's right...but don't forget that trumpet call speaks to Christ victory over sin and the grave. This is why in the most complete chapter on resurrection (1 Corinthians 15), it doesn't even speak to the feast of trumpets because Christ fulfilled that when He rose from the dead.

No. The day of atonement speaks of Christ as our High Priest as Hebrews 9:11 says! Once again...fulfilled!

Please show one example in scripture that makes that point.

You can think so...but have you ever carefully read Romans 10:4?:
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Please reconcile that with what you're saying because it says the opposite.

Have you read Galatians 3:24-26?:
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Do you notice none of anything says what you say? You cannot find the apostles observing feasts except for the reason of preaching the gospel to the Jews...that's the ONLY reason the did so.

Go read it again. It's figurative speaking of not committing sin as keeping the feast. The passage is about the church of Corinth allowing sin int the church...and even speaks of sin as "leaven"...look at verse 8:
8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Explain why Paul is telling the Colossian saints not to allow anyone to judge them because they DON'T observe the feasts...or even show one example of the apostles keeping the feast...THEY DIDN'T!

They were in the temple on the first Pentecost after the Lord Jesus ascended to preach the gospel of the New Covenant!

How is it you read Hebrews 9 and respond trying to keep feasts that are fulfilled in Christ? Do a careful read of it paying attention to verses 1-14...it annihilates your thinking because it speaks of Christ as the direct fulfillment of those feasts.

He is the mediator of a NEW COVENANT and the fulfillment of the Old Covenant. If you want to observe feasts, I don't have a problem with it...but I believe scripture Christ is THE END OF THE LAW to EVERYONE who believes!!!

Just reviewing some of your replies especially " Explain why Paul is telling the Colossian saints not to allow anyone to judge them because they DON'T observe the feasts...."

You have this backwards. The Colossian Christians, a gentile congregation was being confronted by a heresy. False teachers had infiltrated the congregation. These deceivers had influenced the Colossian Christians by introducing their own religious philosophy. and empty deceit according to the tradition of men - Col 2:8
The heretics introduced man made prohibitions-verse 21-against the enjoyment of physical things. The heretics objected to the pleasurable aspects of God's festivals.
When Paul said let no one judge you in food he was referring to the disdain the heretics had against feastings.
Paul was instructing the Colossians not to be influenced by the heretics objections to feasting, drinking, and rejoicing on Sabbaths and feast days.
The heretics had no authority to judge how the Colossians were to observe God's festivals.
Paul was condemning succumbing to the judgmental influence of the early gnostic heretics, not the celebration of Sabbaths or God's feast days.