- Oct 5, 2004
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Perhaps it is the clarity of the understanding you think you have that should make you think again, Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. For one thing you seem to be assuming that God's plan is to restore the earth to what it was in Genesis, the bible never says that, in fact Paul tells us in 1Cor 2:9 But, as it is written, "What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him" How could Paul say no eye has seen this, if God's plan is to restore Eden that Adam and Eve saw?
And I could quote you the same scriptures.....
A lot has happened since the fall, a lot no doubt prepared... Does not the latter house have more glory than the former?
But let us shine a little light on your theory. If speaking figuratively, no doubt you have revelation for each of the events written in Genesis to be comfortable with your theory. For starters what do evening and morning and day mean? What is the figurative meaning of 'herbs'?
Yes you are right, the glory of God is manifesting in its fullness throughout this world.Assyrian said:You seem to be referring to Romans 8 which makes no reference to the fall and doesn't say the world is under the curse of sin.
Assyrian said:No I simply read the next couple of verses where the writer describes this rest as one we are called to enter into today.
Heb 4:4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all his works."
5 And again in this passage he said, "They shall not enter my rest."
6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience...
11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
Was God's rest on the seventh day over in 24 hours, or is the writer of Hebrews interpreting Gen 2:2 as a picture the rest we have in God through the gospel, an ongoing rest we can still enter today?
In this context it is irrrelevant what the meaning is, what is important is that in the NT he is speaking of the 7th day.
Assyrian said:With the Exodus references, it isn't enough to take the verses in isolation and try to read them literally, you need to look at what Moses was doing with the references. Was he teaching the history of the earth and six day creationism, or was he using the reference to teach Sabbath observance? If you take a passage that is teaching Sabbath observance and use it to teach creationism, you are actually taking the verse out of context.
Thats convenient. Any scripture that doesnt agree with your doctrine becames figurative. Congratulations for a foolproof doctrine. Moses was referring to an actual event and stating why the 7th day was holy. It does not get clearer than this....
Assyrian said:I am glad you referred to Exodus 31:17 as well, It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed. If you want to take that literally, you not only have the Almighty God tired after a week's hard work creating, you have the unchangeable God refreshed after a day's rest.
But also means God rested from his works.. ie he ceased from His works which would tie in with other scripture. This is also a 'type' for Christian life as stated in Hebrews.. that is we should cease from acting on our own strength (rest from our works in the flesh) and live by the Spirit. The beauty of OT scripture is that there is always a parallel for life under the new covenant.
Assyrian said:Shouldn't our understanding God as the Creator show us how amazingly and astoundingly great God is, instead of leaving you with a God who gets tired after a week's work and forgets to mention animal in Romans 5 (yes I realise you were just being sarcastic ). Death is an enemy to be defeated now, as Paul says the sting of death is sin. It's the problem of confusing what the bible says about the present and the future with what happened in the past. Just because death is now an enemy through man's sin, it doesn't mean death only existed since sin gave it its sting. If there was death before the fall it didn't have a sting and would have been a part of God's good creation rather than an enemy.
....you losing it...
Sin leads to death, end of story.
Assyrian said:I am looking at the plain meaning of the text, which is what you need to understand before deciding if the passage is literal or figurative. In Gen 1:5 there was evening and there was morning one day, the plain meaning of the text tells me that what you think is the literal interpretation - this was the first day - isn't what the text is saying even if you take it literally. With Genesis 2 the plain meaning of the text, Adam's creation being described as happening before there were plants, tells me we cannot take both Genesis 1 which describe plants created before man and Genesis 2 as literal history. The plain meaning of the texts contradict each other. Now either God forgot the order he created the world in, and forgot what he said in Genesis 1, (like, as you suggest, he forgot to mention animals in Romans 5), or these texts were never meant to be read as literal history.
Moses give the account and order of creation and God's ceasing from His works in Gen 1.1-2.3. The emphasis of the story shifts to the Garden of Eden, Eve and the fall of mankind. The story is geographically specific and there is no reference to days or order of events. By incorrectly insisting that this is the same record as Gen 1 you have coveniently opened the door for your doctrine.
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