Evolution as a theory of creation is a JOKE

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Matthew 19:24
Original Greek:
palin de legO humeis eukopOteros eimi kamElos dia trupEma rhaphis dierchomai E plousios eiserchomai eis ho basileia ho theos

English Translation:
Again YET I-AM-sayING to-YOU easier it-IS CAMEL through BORE OF-SEWer (needle) to-be-coming-through than rich-man to-be-entering INTO THE KINGdom OF-THE God.

My Translation:
Again I am saying to you, it is easier (for a) camel (to go) through bore of needle, than (a) rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God.

Although I fail to see the importance of this side debate.

My point is, there are too many species of plants, animals, insects, fowl, fish, etc., to all to have evolved. God created them.

We humans like to believe we are smart, but even today, we have not a clue as to the age of the universe, because lack the knowledge needed to make that type of, "matter of fact" statement. We guess, 8-18+ billion years. We do not understand TIME or SPEED of anything outside our immediate environment. Oh... we can guess, but how fast is the universe expanding, true is, we have not a clue. What is faster than light? Well... God is... and if something is moving faster than light, how much could they do in a day? If something was capable of moving a hundred times the speed of light, a 1000 times the speed of light, how much could they do in one of our days. Can time stop?

It takes millions of years to create a diamond in nature, but only seconds today in manufacturing. Yet, masters jewelers are fooled. If we can create a Million year old diamond is seconds, you don't believe a creator that created everything could create a planet and fool us?

Yes, there is enough time for all of life to have evolved.
Yes, we, collectively as humans are smart.
Yes, we do have a clue as to how old the universe is.

BTW, who created god? And are you sure he's 1000 times faster than the speed of light? I may ask source on that one.

 

[Split Rock]

My point is, there are too many species of plants, animals, insects, fowl, fish, etc., to all to have evolved. God created them.

1. How many is "too many?" How do you determine a limit for the number of species that can evolve? Afterall, the more you have at a given time, the more can evolve.
2. How do you go from "there are too many species" to therefore "god created them?"

We humans like to believe we are smart, but even today, we have not a clue as to the age of the universe, because lack the knowledge needed to make that type of, "matter of fact" statement. We guess, 8-18+ billion years. We do not understand TIME or SPEED of anything outside our immediate environment. Oh... we can guess, but how fast is the universe expanding, true is, we have not a clue. What is faster than light? Well... God is... and if something is moving faster than light, how much could they do in a day? If something was capable of moving a hundred times the speed of light, a 1000 times the speed of light, how much could they do in one of our days. Can time stop?

1.The estimate for the age of the universe is not a "guess."
2. we know how fast the universe is expanding by the red shift of galaxies and their distance from us.
3. If, if ,if if. God could do anything if he can do anything. That doesn't mean he did do anything.

It takes millions of years to create a diamond in nature, but only seconds today in manufacturing. Yet, masters jewelers are fooled. If we can create a Million year old diamond is seconds, you don't believe a creator that created everything could create a planet and fool us?

The real question is, why would God fool us?

 

[CraigBaugher]

Splitrock

We do not know the age... Because we do not know how fast or slow the universe is expanding, not even today, and that is fact.

God does not fool us, we fool ourself, thinking we are as intelligent as our creator. The joke is on us...

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Actually the joke is on you. Your statements reflect your level of understanding, and quite honestly they make you seem kind of foolish.

 

[Split Rock]

Splitrock

We do not know the age... Because we do not know how fast or slow the universe is expanding, not even today, and that is fact.

What is wrong with the estimate we have for the age of the universe? Please be specific. It certainly is not 6,000 years.

God does not fool us, we fool ourself, thinking we are as intelligent as our creator. The joke is on us...

You claimed he was fooling us, not me. Are you suggesting we not try and figure out the universe around us, because it is pointless to try? Why did your God give us intelligence?

 

[Nathan45]

We do not know the age... Because we do not know how fast or slow the universe is expanding, not even today, and that is fact.

Yes we do, look up redshift. (see also, doppler effect) We can tell how fast a distant galaxy is moving away from us by its redshift. We also know that the speed it's moving away tends to be proportional to it's distance... we can tell distance if there is a type 1a supernova, which always explode in the same way once a white dwarf hits the chandresekhar limit. (essentially, all white dwarf stars are basically the same, and whenever they hit 1.38 solar masses they explode in a very predictable way. So we can tell how distant a galaxy is by the intensity of it's type 1a supernova's and it's speed by how redshifted it is due to the doppler effect.

That gives us enough information to attempt to extrapolate back in time to the big bang... since everything is moving away from us at a speed related to it's distance, you can extrapolate back in time, everything would have been at a single point billions of years ago. In addition, there is something called the "cosmic microwave background radiation" which was predicted by the big bang and was discovered. (this radiation would have been caused by the big bang).

There are some unanswered questions though, like what is this dark energy stuff, (IOW why does the rate of cosmic expansion appear to be increasing), but just because there are some things that we don't know doesn't mean that the things we do know are suddenly wrong.

Anyways, many of these galaxies are billions of light years away, which means the light they give off started traveling towards us billions of years ago... unless god created the light in transit. Which would be an odd thing for God to do, don't you think?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Yes we do, look up redshift. (see also, doppler effect) We can tell how fast a distant galaxy is moving away from us by its redshift. We also know that the speed it's moving away tends to be proportional to it's distance... we can tell distance if there is a type 1a supernova, which always explode in the same way once a white dwarf hits the chandresekhar limit. (essentially, all white dwarf stars are basically the same, and whenever they hit 1.38 solar masses they explode in a very predictable way. So we can tell how distant a galaxy is by the intensity of it's type 1a supernova's and it's speed by how redshifted it is due to the doppler effect.

That gives us enough information to attempt to extrapolate back in time to the big bang... since everything is moving away from us at a speed related to it's distance, you can extrapolate back in time, everything would have been at a single point billions of years ago. In addition, there is something called the "cosmic microwave background radiation" which was predicted by the big bang and was discovered. (this radiation would have been caused by the big bang).

There are some unanswered questions though, like what is this dark energy stuff, (IOW why does the rate of cosmic expansion appear to be increasing), but just because there are some things that we don't know doesn't mean that the things we do know are suddenly wrong.

Anyways, many of these galaxies are billions of light years away, which means the light they give off started traveling towards us billions of years ago... unless god created the light in transit. Which would be an odd thing for God to do, don't you think?

Good post Nathan. Unfortunately, those willing to be "dumb on purpose" (inmate Hovind's term) will read your post and discount it because it doesn't fit with their version of creation.

BTW, AV believes that god created created stars with light in transit.

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

Seriously. I have not told anyone in my church about this or even my own wife yet.

I have been faithfully reading ICR's monthly issues since 1997. I have read a number of Creationists books. I watched Dr Dino's videos numerous times over the years enough to memorize them. I enjoyed that sort of thing in my spare time.

But a few months ago I actually took the time to hear out the other side. I talked to people on forums and read a few books. I read rebuttals from evolutionists.

Proverbs 18:17
The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

...

It took a while to really let it settle in my heart. Then I had to look into Genesis again for the first time. I had to allow for a radically different approach to it. I had to also allow that it contains a lot of reasons to be considered myth/allegory/non literal. That was hard to admit. I am extremely hesitant to confess this to anyone I know. Or I will get: Heretic! Idiot! Doubter! Fool! either spoken or not, from many Christ like fellow Christian saints.

Hi adimus

You don't know me -- I was hanging around here for a while but haven't been back for several months. Basically I got a bit tired of the same old fallacies, AV's puerile sophistry, drive-by PRATTs, etc etc, and I couldn't really afford to waste the time. But someone [you know who you are, and I shake my fist at you! ] PMed me and that prompted me to pop over and see what was going on. Eh, same old nonsense. OK, well, I guess I'll just close this tab and go do something pro.duc...t.... And that was when I read your post.

My heart was simultaneously gladdened and saddened (it's an odd feeling, I'll tell ya!). I was raised a creationist. Suffice it to say: I changed. It gives me hope to hear stories of others who have the courage to change their views based on good ol' fashioned logic, reason, and evidence. (And it sounds like you were more entrenched in your beliefs than I ever was, so I'm very impressed that you could be that open-minded and courageous.) But it also saddens me that you feel you have to be "in the closet" about this. I understand, certainly, and I'm not saying you shouldn't be -- it's just so sad that that has to be the case. Feel the Christian love, huh?

Anyway, I just thought you should be heartily commended for what you've done. (I'm surprised that I'm the first to say all this, actually.) Take care! And have fun pulling the rug from under AV's uberliteral feet, but don't let him drag you down to his level -- it isn't worth the effort.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Welcome to reason and logic. We've been waiting for you. The journey begins sans preconceived notions.

 

[CraigBaugher]

Contrary to your views of me, I am always watching the Science & History channels, because I find the universe is incredibly fascinating. I do not remember if it was last night or the night before, but regardless of when it was, I was drifting off to sleep and they were talking about the debate if the universe is actually slowing down or speeding up, and because of this, the age of the universe as we know it, may be younger or older - and they used 8-18-billion years. They did explain it, but I was drifting off and cannot remember their explaination. Speed of light, actual speed of expansion unknown, thus no true known distances, 1975 deep space probe not far enough out to give us reliable data yet, etc.

The big Rip, 2012 magnetic pole shift, USOs, Saturn's fourth moon having potential for intelligent life, global warming vs historical cycling, etc. There are 1000s of topics that fascinate me. I am not against science, I love science. But we are not the masters of the universe, rather mere babes still learning and trying to grasp a more thorough understanding of this incredible world our Lord and maker provided us with.

Unless you can prove to me that time cannot be warped, or materials made quickly that appear older, than I will believe in God. I will keep going back to diamonds, man-made vs natural. If we can do it, our Lord and maker can do it better!

 

[Cabal]

Unless you can prove to me that time cannot be warped, or materials made quickly that appear older, than I will believe in God.

Erm....can't you just believe in God anyway? Why all the gaps provisos?

I will keep going back to diamonds, man-made vs natural. If we can do it, our Lord and maker can do it better!

Are we talking about the long slow geologically processed ones vs our much faster manmade ones? Or diamonds that God instantly created?

 

[LightHorseman]

Proof evolution doesn't work.

 

[corvus_corax]

Splitrock

We do not know the age... Because we do not know how fast or slow the universe is expanding, not even today, and that is fact.

.You are promoting a falsehood.
That doesn't surprise me as falsehoods are what Creationists specialize in.

God does not fool us,

And now, you're contradicting yourself, another thing Creationists specialize in.

Gee, you're just a typical self contradicting, falsehood promoting Creationist.

Which is just typical.
You probably won't last around here more than a year or two.

In the meantime, have fun getting actual evidence tossed your way.

 

[Split Rock]

Contrary to your views of me, I am always watching the Science & History channels, because I find the universe is incredibly fascinating. I do not remember if it was last night or the night before, but regardless of when it was, I was drifting off to sleep and they were talking about the debate if the universe is actually slowing down or speeding up, and because of this, the age of the universe as we know it, may be younger or older - and they used 8-18-billion years. They did explain it, but I was drifting off and cannot remember their explaination. Speed of light, actual speed of expansion unknown, thus no true known distances, 1975 deep space probe not far enough out to give us reliable data yet, etc.

The big Rip, 2012 magnetic pole shift, USOs, Saturn's fourth moon having potential for intelligent life, global warming vs historical cycling, etc. There are 1000s of topics that fascinate me. I am not against science, I love science. But we are not the masters of the universe, rather mere babes still learning and trying to grasp a more thorough understanding of this incredible world our Lord and maker provided us with.

Unless you can prove to me that time cannot be warped, or materials made quickly that appear older, than I will believe in God. I will keep going back to diamonds, man-made vs natural. If we can do it, our Lord and maker can do it better!

You say you love science. But what good is it, if God can trump it anytime he wants to? He can fool us by making young rocks look old. A young universe look old. Or anything else he wants. Also, please stop conflating an acceptance of science (which you love) with atheism.

 

[LightHorseman]

If evolution is true, explain this?

 

[CraigBaugher]

God does not fools us, we fool ourselves, because we do not yet understand the science involved.

I tried to find the name of the program, but their TV schedule was incomplete - meaning, may be local satelite companies air what they want in those times based on what has proven statistically popular, or they are lazy. In either case, it was scientist saying we do not know the age of the universe, not me.

Oh, we are becoming more intelligent... we are continuously learning more... we are continuously gaining a better understanding, but God's work is amazingly complexed, for we still do not even understand the human body and how it functions. For we have mapped the human body, disassembled and thoroughly analyzed it, and yet, there is so much we do not know or even understand.

 

[Ectezus]

God does not fools us, we fool ourselves, because we do not yet understand the science involved.

Hey if you want to openly admit that you're stupid that's fine but don't drag everyone else into it.

 

[Split Rock]

God does not fools us, we fool ourselves, because we do not yet understand the science involved.

Yet you caution us (it would seem) not to keep improving our understanding. You still haven't explained why evolution is a "joke."

I tried to find the name of the program, but their TV schedule was incomplete - meaning, may be local satelite companies air what they want in those times based on what has proven statistically popular, or they are lazy. In either case, it was scientist saying we do not know the age of the universe, not me.

We have good estimates, and by your own accounting they are way outside the 6,000 year range.

Oh, we are becoming more intelligent... we are continuously learning more... we are continuously gaining a better understanding, but God's work is amazingly complexed, for we still do not even understand the human body and how it functions. For we have mapped the human body, disassembled and thoroughly analyzed it, and yet, there is so much we do not know or even understand.

And we continue to learn. Why do you call our efforts in this regard a "joke?"

Hey if you want to openly admit that you're stupid that's fine but don't drag everyone else into it.

Let's try and keep this civil. I know the O.P. title invites this kind of response, but most of Craig's posts since the O.P. have not deserved this.

 

[adimus]

It's actually more likely that Jesus was referring to the thick ropes used to tie boats to the dock (camilo) than an actual camel (camelo).

Thanks for that tidbit. Either way, it shows that a number of popular interpretations are really just creative modern inventions. The point of the parable remains the same no matter how one interprets it also. It is very difficult for someone who lives in great wealth to have a heart that remains clean before God. Jesus was not against wealth but he was warning people about the dangers that wealth bring into our lives.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

God does not fools us, we fool ourselves, because we do not yet understand the science involved.

I tried to find the name of the program, but their TV schedule was incomplete - meaning, may be local satelite companies air what they want in those times based on what has proven statistically popular, or they are lazy. In either case, it was scientist saying we do not know the age of the universe, not me.

Oh, we are becoming more intelligent... we are continuously learning more... we are continuously gaining a better understanding, but God's work is amazingly complexed, for we still do not even understand the human body and how it functions. For we have mapped the human body, disassembled and thoroughly analyzed it, and yet, there is so much we do not know or even understand.

How is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded, 'This is better than we thought! The Universe is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more sublte, more elegant'? Instead they say, 'No, no, no! My god is a little god, and I want him to stay that way.' A religion, old or new, that stressed the magnificence of the Universe as revealed by modern science might be able to draw forth reserves of reverence and awe hardly tapped by the conventional faiths.

-Carl Sagan, "Pale Blue Dot"