Everything is part of the war on Christmas!

[keith99]

According to the Wiki on A Christmas Carol that when Dickens wrote it in 1843 the Brits were examining their Christmas traditions so discussions about what really made Christmas were surely on the table. It also says:

Dickens was not the first author to celebrate the Christmas season in literature,[3] but it was he who superimposed his humanitarian vision of the holiday upon the public, an idea that has been termed as Dickens' "Carol Philosophy".

So clearly Dickens was open to charges of infiltrating Christmas and driving Christ off center stage.

Over 100 years later there was something else akin to the Starbucks cup issue that could be called part of a war on Christmas. A line I happen to be partial to that was in earlier films was omitted from a remake.

So with the foundation well laid for my excuse to start a thread with a quote well in place here are the words of Bob Cratchit speaking about his young son:

He told me, coming home, that he hoped the people saw him in the Church, because he was a cripple, and it might be pleasant to remember upon Christmas Day, who made lame beggars walk and blind men see.

 

[ananda]

"Christmas is an infilitration designed to drive Saturnalia and Saturn off center stage! Merry Saturnalia!"

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

a war on Christmas.

As someone who has worked in retail I can honestly say that I wish there was a war on Christmas. The materialism and consumerism is a depravity and should be expunged! It's so bad that people agree with me while they buy their Xmas presents without giving it a second thought! I do not celebrate it, I wouldn't accept gifts or give gifts on Xmas and I particularly hate carols and the decorations.

 

[Locutus]

As someone who has worked in retail I can honestly say that I wish there was a war on Christmas. The materialism and consumerism is a depravity and should be expunged! It's so bad that people agree with me while they buy their Xmas presents without giving it a second thought! I do not celebrate it, I wouldn't accept gifts or give gifts on Xmas and I particularly hate carols and the decorations.

I don't personally have a problem with the gifting side of the festival - only with the consumerism of it. That is to say, the insane amounts of money haemorrhaged directly into the wallets of corporate fat cats. Wonderful and thoughtful gifts can be hand-made/baked/grown, or found in charity shops or vintage fairs etc, for very little money.

Meantime, it's interesting to note that here in the predominantly atheist nation where I live, we still say "merry Christmas", but in America, it's "happy holidays". Must be in proportion to the degree that the sentiment is taken seriously. Since it's just a nice old European festival to us, there is no weight to the word Christmas - it's just a word.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Meantime, it's interesting to note that here in the predominantly atheist nation where I live, we still say "merry Christmas", but in America, it's "happy holidays". Must be in proportion to the degree that the sentiment is taken seriously. Since it's just a nice old European festival to us, there is no weight to the word Christmas - it's just a word.

My money says that it's the capitalist framework which really stands behind American culture:
"It doesn't matter what religion you are, buy things!"

 

[keith99]

I don't personally have a problem with the gifting side of the festival - only with the consumerism of it. That is to say, the insane amounts of money haemorrhaged directly into the wallets of corporate fat cats. Wonderful and thoughtful gifts can be hand-made/baked/grown, or found in charity shops or vintage fairs etc, for very little money.

Meantime, it's interesting to note that here in the predominantly atheist nation where I live, we still say "merry Christmas", but in America, it's "happy holidays". Must be in proportion to the degree that the sentiment is taken seriously. Since it's just a nice old European festival to us, there is no weight to the word Christmas - it's just a word.

Decades ago, just how long ago I don't remember but I know it was before the Northridge Earthquake because it all took place in the old Northridge Mall which was destroyed in the quake, I had a very different Christmas shopping experience.

Christmas eve fell on the weekend and my shopping was done, all the obligation had been taken care of, but I had time on my hands and went browsing through the specialty shops looking for something just right for anyone I knew. It was a very different feeling, no pressure, a very pleasant experience.

 

[Archivist]

I recall one Christmas several years ago when I was at a mall and started singing along with one of the Christmas carols that was playing. A lady walking nearby started singing as well, then another man joined in. Pretty soon there were five or six of us singing. When the song ended we all wished each other a merry Christmas and went on our ways. Wish things like that would happen more often.

 

[lupusFati]

I don't care about Christmas. Secular or otherwise. The only good that really comes of it imho is that I get to spend time with family. I have no love for your Christ, and I have no love for consumerism. It's bad no matter which way the war wages on.

 

[joshua 1 9]

As someone who has worked in retail I can honestly say that I wish there was a war on Christmas. The materialism and consumerism is a depravity and should be expunged! It's so bad that people agree with me while they buy their Xmas presents without giving it a second thought! I do not celebrate it, I wouldn't accept gifts or give gifts on Xmas and I particularly hate carols and the decorations.

The Bible talks about the gift of the Spirit. They are the gifts of God for the people of God so we are just the vessel that God uses to give the gifts that He is wanting to give.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

The Bible talks about the gift of the Spirit. They are the gifts of God for the people of God so we are just the vessel that God uses to give the gifts that He is wanting to give.

So what? What does that have to do with what I said?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Just another quote:

``Spirit,'' said Scrooge, after a moment's thought, ``I wonder you, of all the beings in the many worlds about us, should desire to cramp these people's opportunities of innocent enjoyment.''

``I!'' cried the Spirit.

``You would deprive them of their means of dining every seventh day, often the only day on which they can be said to dine at all,'' said Scrooge. ``Wouldn't you?''

``I!'' cried the Spirit.

``You seek to close these places on the Seventh Day?'' said Scrooge. ``And it comes to the same thing.''

``I seek!'' exclaimed the Spirit.

``Forgive me if I am wrong. It has been done in your name, or at least in that of your family,'' said Scrooge.

``There are some upon this earth of yours,'' returned the Spirit, ``who lay claim to know us, and who do their deeds of passion, pride, ill-will, hatred, envy, bigotry, and selfishness in our name, who are as strange to us and all out kith and kin, as if they had never lived. Remember that, and charge their doings on themselves, not us.''

 

[malvina]

Christmas can be a very emotional and upsetting time for a lot of people that have had broken marriages and lost loved ones.
I believe that everyone should celebrate Thanksgiving and thank God for everything He has done for them. We didn't have it in UK or here in Oz but I think this will only create happiness and blessings for all as there's nothing God likes more than being thanked.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

What's curious to me is that the very things some Christians are up in arms about such as the outrage that Starbucks removed ornaments and snowflakes from their seasonal cups, and the haughty insistent that any greeting but "Merry Christmas" is tantamount to persecution or a slight, are in actuality more of a war against Christmas. At least they're more of an affront to what Christmas should actually be about - Christ's life. He lived an earnest, selfless life in simplicity, without luxuries or indulgences, and was purely focused on teaching the ways to lead a purposeful and moral life, and being of service. The gifts that he gave were not material in nature.

I don't think Christ would celebrate Christmas as we have it today because he'd view it as a distraction from all the work that needs to be done, and an indulgence. Much of what Christmas is has never been about Christ anyway. He wasn't born on December 25. He wasn't even born in the winter. The early church wanted to supplant paganism with Christianity and chose late December because it's when the widely popular winter solstice festivities took place. It's why I find the battlecry about cups with snowflakes being discontinued to be an act of war against Christmas to be a bit ironic because to me they are far more representative of the pagan celebrations. Same with Frosty the Snowman and Rudolph the red noise reindeer. I think the life of actual Saint Nicholas - the trim man who generously gave to the children who were in need - was more like Christ. The obese Santa who perpetuates the notion that being "good" deserves the reward of toys feels diametric to Christ. That being said, I actually love the entire holiday season. I think it's a lively and lovely time of the year when hopefully people gather with those they love.

 

[bhsmte]

So what? What does that have to do with what I said?

He often replies off topic.

 

[keith99]

What's curious to me is that the very things some Christians are up in arms about such as the outrage that Starbucks removed ornaments and snowflakes from their seasonal cups, and the haughty insistent that any greeting but "Merry Christmas" is tantamount to persecution or a slight, are in actuality more of a war against Christmas. ....

That being said, I actually love the entire holiday season. I think it's a lively and lovely time of the year when hopefully people gather with those they love.

I keep hearing in my head someone saying Happy Holidays and a 'good Christian' replying "Merry Christmas" in tone that pales the "Good afternoon" of pre visions Scrooge.

I'd also like to point out the exchange of presents played no part in the Dickens story, Christmas as he painted it was a time of fellowship marked by breaking bread at the least and goodwill between those of different stations in life when it was given full reign.

 

[whois]

I have no love for your Christ, and I have no love for consumerism. It's bad no matter which way the war wages on.

but yet, thanks to everything you hate, you were able to make the above post for all to see.
doesn't your integrity mean ANYTHING to you?

 

[grandvizier1006]

I don't see this "war on Christmas" much. It tends to be just a social media thing. And I don't know anybody getting mad about red cups, although I've heard about it. I think 95% of the population is just doing what people normally do on this time of year.

 

[lupusFati]

but yet, thanks to everything you hate, you were able to make the above post for all to see.
doesn't your integrity mean ANYTHING to you?

You didn't quote the entire post I made, and all I said was that I have no love for Christ or consumerism. The opposite of love is not hate. It's apathy.

I am apathetic to Christ, to consumerism, to Christmas. Christmas only matters because I get to spend time with family that I wouldn't see otherwise. That matters to me. Not some imaginary figure I cried out to for relief, for help. What's that quote from Undertale? Ah yes.

"But nobody came..."

When I was bullied beyond reason, nobody came.
When I became suicidal, nobody came.
When I began to dissociate, nobody came.
When I was breaking apart, nobody came.
When I became three people... the only one who came for Z and I was Reid. There was no Christ who came to our aid.

So get off your high horse.

 

[Locutus]

Decades ago, just how long ago I don't remember but I know it was before the Northridge Earthquake because it all took place in the old Northridge Mall which was destroyed in the quake, I had a very different Christmas shopping experience.

Christmas eve fell on the weekend and my shopping was done, all the obligation had been taken care of, but I had time on my hands and went browsing through the specialty shops looking for something just right for anyone I knew. It was a very different feeling, no pressure, a very pleasant experience.

See now I could dig that. Especially if it was all bookshops

 

[Locutus]

I keep hearing in my head someone saying Happy Holidays and a 'good Christian' replying "Merry Christmas" in tone that pales the "Good afternoon" of pre visions Scrooge.

I'd also like to point out the exchange of presents played no part in the Dickens story, Christmas as he painted it was a time of fellowship marked by breaking bread at the least and goodwill between those of different stations in life when it was given full reign.

yes ... breaking bread. the shared, convivial observation of a tradition dating back thousands of years. good wine, good food, respite from routine. glorious stuff!