Evangelists arrested at 'Gay Games'

[cedDallas]

Joe, there is a wonderful article on a website which no longer exists about evangelism and why it doesn't work.

It's not that the Gospel message is bad.

It's that people have been showered with it for decades, and at this point, they have probably already decided to accept some variant, or not to. More significantly, no matter how nice you are, if you're saying something that has in the past been accompanied by screamed epithets, promises to hunt you down and kill you, or gleeful chortlings at how much fun the person "witnessing" will have watching you burn for millennia...

I don't think we have to look far afield for an explanation of why people react badly.

As Samuel Marchbanks (regrettably fictional) put it:

"August the 23rd. Answered the door to find it was a man giving out tracts that say things like Are You Ready To Meet God? Neatly disemboweled him with the butter knife. In the struggle of the Alone towards the Alone, I prefer not to be jostled."

(I am paraphrasing badly from memory, here.)

Seriously, I don't think the hard parts of the Gospel message are at issue in the negativity we face when we go out and evangelize. I think it's the history of presentation, which we are associated with even if we are personally being nice.

Good points. In my experience, you do not reach people through things like handing out tracts. The Churches problem is they look at Christianity as though it were some sentence like Community Service...something they can do on the weekends to fulfill a spiritual obligation without really having to invest in people. The sad fact is, handing someone a tract takes no real effort or commitment to the person. It is a vain and empty attempt to 'share truth' with them without doing any of the real work or having to be accountable for your actions or lifestyle to those close to you. For too many over zealous Christians, they don’t want to put in the time and effort to actually take someone into there life...cuz they don't like being around those horrid sinners or can't back up their belief with their lifestyle, so they shallowly go out and give people a tract and 99% of the time, they never see them again.

But thats ok, cuz they put in there time 'serving the Lord' so all is well! Right?

It is not that the Gospel message is unattractive or that people don't want to hear it...it is that they want people to live up to what they know the bible says about loving people and living your life as an example. And no matter what anyone says, you don't love the stranger you meet on the street as much as you do your friends you have over for dinner twice a week. If Christians want to disassociate themselves from groups like these...learn from the Mormons, change what the standard for reaching people is. Don't just go out and hope you can catch someone by surprise with a tract...but rather, commit to people. To loving them, to being there for them, and show them that God is love and as a people Christians represent that. If the Church could do that...the world/media would not group these nut jobs in with all of Christendom.

 

[cedDallas]

I'm tempted to become an Evangelical Christian just so I can hand out flyers that say this. Maybe one that says "God h8's n00bs" too.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

That being said, from a secular view I don't see a reason to boycott 5 out of 6 of these stores. But that 6th one is pretty sleazy.

If christians and other anti-inappropriate content activists would just go after the problem cases and would leave the rest of the sex industry alone I would have no issues with them.

Instead, they use the problem cases to indict the entire industry.

They never say "I want to ban kiddie inappropriate content" or "I want to ban inappropriate content where the producers are abusing people". They simply say "I want to ban inappropriate content".

In another thread I was arguing with someone about prostitution and came up with a scenario that would have solved all of the issues she was complaining about, her "reasons" for being against prostitution. She paid absolutely no attention to it and continued railing against the "evils" of prostitution, proving that the real reason people are against the sex industry is simply because they think god/jesus/bible don't like it.

 

[Bro_Sam]

These people have a pretty long history, and calling them evangelists is an insult to Oral Roberts and Benny Hinn.

Calling Benny Hinn and Oral Roberts evangelists is an insult to every evangelist who ever preached the Gospel.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It is not that the Gospel message is unattractive or that people don't want to hear it...it is that they want people to live up to what they know the bible says about loving people and living your life as an example. And no matter what anyone says, you don't love the stranger you meet on the street as much as you do your friends you have over for dinner twice a week.

Good post. And for goodness sakes, leave out the Fire/Brimstone and Endtime/Sky is falling message.

Perhaps little booklets should be printed just with the 4 gospels on them.

The NT reveals what was "hidden" in the OT, so I always recommend to new "converts" that they read the 4 gospels first a couple of times, then start on the Apostle Paul's letters and after thoroughly reading the NT, then start on the OT.

[Young] Luke 6:30 `And to every one who is asking of thee, be giving; and from him who is taking away thy goods, be not asking again; 31 and as ye wish that men may do to you, do ye also to them in like manner; 32 and--if ye love those loving you, what grace have ye? for also the sinful love those loving them; 33 and if ye do good to those doing good to you, what grace have ye? for also the sinful do the same; 34 and if ye lend [to those] of whom ye hope to receive back, what grace have ye? for also the sinful lend to sinners--that they may receive again as much. 35 `But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again, and your reward will be great, and ye shall be sons of the Highest, because He is kind unto the ungracious and evil; 36 be ye therefore merciful, as also your Father is merciful.

 

[radorth]

Evangelists arrested at 'Gay Games'
[SIZE=+1]File lawsuit claiming police singled them out for sharing gospel[/SIZE]
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51187

There are two sides to every story, so it's hard to tell what happened. I imagine there was wrongdoing on both sides there. BTW, do you have to swear to being gay to join the games? I would hate to think the "oppressed" have become the opressors so soon.

When are we going to have the "Black Games", the "Latino Games," and the "Native American Games" anyway?

The world is such a joke. It preaches tolerance, free speech, inclusion and brotherly love and then does the exact opposite every time. Self-righteousness comes in all colors and creeds, and the only place I've seen it disappear is in a Christian revival. That's where I get to hug all those who once said I was their enemy just because I was white.

Rad

 

[JGG]

There are two sides to every story, so it's hard to tell what happened. I imagine there was wrongdoing on both sides there. BTW, do you have to swear to being gay to join the games? I would hate to think the "oppressed" have become the opressors so soon.

When are we going to have the "Black Games", the "Latino Games," and the "Native American Games" anyway?

The world is such a joke. It preaches tolerance, free speech, inclusion and brotherly love and then does the exact opposite every time. Self-righteousness comes in all colors and creeds, and the only place I've seen it disappear is in a Christian revival. That's where I get to hug all those who once said I was their enemy just because I was white.

Rad

How about an African American Festival:
http://heritagefestival.osu.edu/

or Latino Festival:
http://www.abslatin.co.uk/events_latin_american_festival.htm

or Native American Sporting Events:
http://www.ndnsports.com/web/

or a German Festival:
http://www.oktoberfest.ca/

or an Irish Festival:
http://www.stpatricksday.ie/cms/home.html

or a Christian Children's Sporting League:
http://www.csikids.org/index.html


By the way, you think that Christians are the only ones who aren't self-righteous?

 

[cedDallas]

The NT reveals what was "hidden" in the OT,

This almost warrents a new thread lol. I have a different take on that...you should check out OutreachJudaism dot org. I used to think the same as you but the more I study Judaism the more I have to question the Christian understanding of the OT and who the messiah was to be as described by God to the Jews. It is amazing the same critical thinking orthodox Christians are told to use to defeat 'cults' like Mormonism, they do not use when looking into their own faith. (Mistranslating Scripture, Taking things out of context, going with what you are told with little or no research, etc.) I think it is this lack of critical analyses of their faith and a willingness to believe whatever they are told with no real knowlege that leads ppl to do all sorts of nutty things in the name of Jesus and his church.

 

[cedDallas]

When are we going to have the "Black Games", the "Latino Games," and the "Native American Games" anyway?

How about the "Whity Games"...of course, no one would expect any world records to be broken, except maybe in cycling. lol.

 

[radorth]

How about an African American Festival:
http://heritagefestival.osu.edu/

or Latino Festival:
http://www.abslatin.co.uk/events_latin_american_festival.htm

or Native American Sporting Events:
http://www.ndnsports.com/web/

or a German Festival:
http://www.oktoberfest.ca/

or an Irish Festival:
http://www.stpatricksday.ie/cms/home.html

or a Christian Children's Sporting League:
http://www.csikids.org/index.html

Well here you go. Can white Christians join in or do they discriminate on the basis of color and beliefs?

By the way, you think that Christians are the only ones who aren't self-righteous?

Oh gosh no. I think we are all frighteningly alike, at least outside the rare genuine revivals I have seen or heard of. That's where you find Christian ministers like George Whitefield kicked out of the church for allowing "women, negroes and children" to speak form the pulpit. That was in the 18th, when Jefferson was keeping slaves. Of course you would have to know we are all frighteningly alike before you would become a Christian in the first place.

Rad

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

How about the "Whity Games"...of course, no one would expect any world records to be broken, except maybe in cycling. lol.

How about Atheists vs Christians games.

 

[Tinker Grey]

As long as there aren't any lions involved ...

 

[seebs]

Too bad Christians feel this way. Its a perfect reason to emmulate the early church. I mean, can you imagine the apostle Paul saying; hmmm... I think evangelism is too hard, too tough, doesn't work. It isn't any wonder why God chose Paul; he was castigated by every city, beaten (many times near death), 3 times shipwrecked, etc. Did he give up?

Where did I ever say to give up because it was "too hard"?

I feel like I'm talking to a man who juggles live scorpions for Jesus.

"Uhm, Jesus is not appreciably benefitting from this juggling of live scorpions."

"Did Paul give up because spreading the Gospel was too hard?"

Street corner evangelism is different from Paul's tactics; furthermore, we are talking to a different audience. Paul was going to people none of whom had ever heard the Gospel before.

We are talking to people who have heard it dozens of times and have mostly had it associated with behavior that is just plain wrong.

So we have to work on approaches that will communicate to people, and one of the first things we have to do is make sure that they know that we are aware that the way they've been treated is wrong. If we don't do that, they not only have no reason to listen to us, they have a good reason not to.

Ironically, I generally assume the reason there's so many campus evangelists and the like is that real witnessing is too hard. It takes a lot of time and effort, and you have to be good most of the time, not just during that three-hour stretch.

 

[radorth]

How about Atheists vs Christians games.

I like it! But do we get to play by the same rules of sportsmanship?

 

[radorth]

As long as there aren't any lions involved ...

 

[radorth]

If christians and other anti-inappropriate content activists would just go after the problem cases and would leave the rest of the sex industry alone I would have no issues with them.

Instead, they use the problem cases to indict the entire industry.

They never say "I want to ban kiddie inappropriate content" or "I want to ban inappropriate content where the producers are abusing people". They simply say "I want to ban inappropriate content".

Yes let's have a thousand "inappropriate content agents" going in to watch and decide who is being abused and who isn't.

Your point is mute anyway because the reality is that you can never have enough cops to stop it all and it will go on forever anyway. Same with prostitution. It's a generic societal evil which I think the cops know as well as anybody, and pick and choose their battles.

Rad

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

Yes let's have a thousand "inappropriate content agents" going in to watch and decide who is being abused and who isn't.

Your point is mute anyway because the reality is that you can never have enough cops to stop it all and it will go on forever anyway. Same with prostitution. It's a generic societal evil which I think the cops know as well as anybody, and pick and choose their battles.

So we're agreed then. Why are you telling me, as opposed to people who go on inappropriate content crusades?

 

[Daniels]

Thank you so much for all your opinions.

 

[JoeSaebi]

Where did I ever say to give up because it was "too hard"?

I feel like I'm talking to a man who juggles live scorpions for Jesus.

"Uhm, Jesus is not appreciably benefitting from this juggling of live scorpions."

"Did Paul give up because spreading the Gospel was too hard?"

Street corner evangelism is different from Paul's tactics; furthermore, we are talking to a different audience. Paul was going to people none of whom had ever heard the Gospel before.

We are talking to people who have heard it dozens of times and have mostly had it associated with behavior that is just plain wrong.

So we have to work on approaches that will communicate to people, and one of the first things we have to do is make sure that they know that we are aware that the way they've been treated is wrong. If we don't do that, they not only have no reason to listen to us, they have a good reason not to.

Ironically, I generally assume the reason there's so many campus evangelists and the like is that real witnessing is too hard. It takes a lot of time and effort, and you have to be good most of the time, not just during that three-hour stretch.

What you're missing, Seebs, is that you need to be good all of the time to follow Christ. How many times do I need to remind you of 1John2:1 thru 1John2:6

 

[seebs]

What you're missing, Seebs, is that you need to be good all of the time to follow Christ. How many times do I need to remind you of 1John2:1 thru 1John2:6

Well, I don't recall ever hearing it mentioned.

That said, if all you want to do is witness to people, "most of the time" will get some people listening, in a way that street corner evangelization generally doesn't.