European open borders is quickly failing ... casualty to mideast migrants

[SoldierOfTheKing]

The first 150 years of the US. It was well into the twentieth century before the US started restricting immigration.

Naturalization Act of 1790

Besides, if your talking about the 19th century, the United States then was then an expansionist power with a vast frontier for the settlement of surplus population. That's not true on the United States anymore, let alone any European country.

 

[TheQuietRiot]

Sometimes I'm very glad that I live on an island.

It is typical of the media to portray these migrants as refugees. They ceased to be such when they left Syrian borders and passed through numerous safe countries to come to Europe.

 

[AirPo]

Sometimes I'm very glad that I live on an island.

It is typical of the media to portray these migrants as refugees. They ceased to be such when they left Syrian borders and passed through numerous safe countries to come to Europe.

No, that's what made them refugees.

 

[Messy]

Europe: We can't take anymore!!!1one

America: we took 12 million, man up.

Does America give them a house and an income if they have no job?

 

[TheQuietRiot]

No, that's what made them refugees.

What made them refugees is the religious turmoil and political disputes in their own countries.

The middle east is a cesspool.

 

[Supreme]

As someone fiercely proud of my own nation of Britain, I welcome these refugees. Britain is a wonderful place to live; safe, at peace, prosperous and beautiful. I want to share my homeland with these people, who are the poor, the crippled, and the bereaved.

After all, one of my favourite quotes of Jesus is the following:

Then Jesus said to his hosts, "When you give a lunch or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or your rich neighbours- for they will invite you back, and in this way you will be paid for what you did. When you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame and the blind; and you will be blessed, for they are not able to pay you back. God will repay you on the day the good people rise from death". (Luke 14:12-14)

 

[NightHawkeye]

Naturalization Act of 1790

Noting that your link, and apparently the Naturalization Act itself, mentions nothing about immigration. The Naturalization Act simply defined the process for obtaining citizenship in the young nation.

Besides, if your talking about the 19th century, the United States then was then an expansionist power with a vast frontier for the settlement of surplus population. That's not true on the United States anymore, let alone any European country.

Yet, they still come ... far more than to any other place on earth.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

- The New Colossus: Emma Lazarus​

 

[mindlight]

Germany needs babies. Not babies of foreigners. German babies.

That sounds racist to me. Also it is a little ignorant of the German schooling system. The Germans are to say the least quite thorough in bringing people up to pronounce the words of their language and to understand the basics of their culture. The children of these immigrants will become far more assimilated than their parents. Also unlike an earlier wave of Turkish immigrants which was mainly to fill menial roles many of these Syrian immigrants are actually the more dynamic , educated and professional element of their society with the get up and go to uproot and go to another country. In many cases they have the same ambition and talent of many of those who crossed the Atlantic in the heyday of European emigration to America. Germany needs their babies cause it is not breeding, it needs their dynamism because things have been very comfortable here for most people here for a long time. Also and more importantly for me - the church is finally escaping the Middle East with these people.

 

[mindlight]

Actually Germany has long had eyes on a Berlin-Baghdad axis. In fact, one of the coups-d'état in Iraq was a pro-German one, after which the British felt obliged — for reasons of their own — to restore the Regent Illah.

You are talking a long time ago. German ambitions in the middle east during the Imperial and Nazi eras cultivated radical Islam as an antidote to the authority of the French and British imperial powers in the region. Now it is about trade, human rights and demographics.

Actually there is a vast difference between the Baathist government of Bashar al-Assad and ISIS. The Assad government even gave intelligence and security cooperation to the US after 9/11.

Assad had control and could barter information but that does not make him or Sadam better than the IS rebels. People miss the order that these secular dictators provided and forget the horrendous human cost of wars and oppression in which in Iraq at least the Baathists were far more deadly than the chaos that followed them.

I don't have a problem with pointing out the shortcomings of US foreign policy under the Obama Administration, but to imply that the Bush Administration's intervention in Iraq (which it supposedly based on false information about WMD) somehow did not destabilize Iraq and the region — while it's anyway all supposedly the fault of the Obama Administration — is as if we are talking about a different planet.

Sadam waged a war with Iran that cost 1.5 million lives and another in the Gulf that caused large scale loss of life and pollution on a horrendous scale. Yes the situation has stabilised as a result of his dismissal although his own country and neighbour Syria are in chaos right now. What has changed is that brutal secular dictators have been replaced with a less decisive and more dynamic situation of civil war, local warlords and a radical Islamic Caliphate. That would not have happened without Obamas premature withdrawal and was definitely not the case in 2008 when Bush left power.

 

[mindlight]

Hungary thought that EU and NATO membership would provide a post-communist bonanza.

Just after joining NATO, however, Hungary suddenly discovered that NATO countries wanted to use Hungarian airspace from which to bomb Serbia.

Hungary has also discovered that the looser borders that the EU seemed to promise are not quite the unparalelled advantage that EU proponents seemed to promise.

Having been lied to for decades by communists, Hungarians are now discovering that it's their turn now for Western Europeans to try to hoodwink them as to the false promises that they offer.

Public opinion in Hungary is in favour of EU and NATO membership and consider the benefits outweigh the costs. I think you are just making this stuff up.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Public opinion in Hungary is in favour of EU and NATO membership and consider the benefits outweigh the costs. I think you are just making this stuff up.

Everything I said was factual. I know that politicians can manipulate public opinion to the extent that facts for a while can go out of the window, so to speak, but nature has a way of bouncing back in due course.

 

[faroukfarouk]

You are talking a long time ago. German ambitions in the middle east during the Imperial and Nazi eras cultivated radical Islam as an antidote to the authority of the French and British imperial powers in the region. Now it is about trade, human rights and demographics.



Assad had control and could barter information but that does not make him or Sadam better than the IS rebels. People miss the order that these secular dictators provided and forget the horrendous human cost of wars and oppression in which in Iraq at least the Baathists were far more deadly than the chaos that followed them.



Sadam waged a war with Iran that cost 1.5 million lives and another in the Gulf that caused large scale loss of life and pollution on a horrendous scale. Yes the situation has stabilised as a result of his dismissal although his own country and neighbour Syria are in chaos right now. What has changed is that brutal secular dictators have been replaced with a less decisive and more dynamic situation of civil war, local warlords and a radical Islamic Caliphate. That would not have happened without Obamas premature withdrawal and was definitely not the case in 2008 when Bush left power.

It's utterly false to suggest that the ISIS is nicer than - or that life is more comfortable under than - the Baathist government of Bashar al Assad. And then when you suggest that it's all the fault of the Obama Administration: believe me, it all started long before the Obama Administration. The George W. Bush Administration's intervention in Iraq was based on a falsehood, and what business was it of theirs, in any case? Up here, the Canadian Prime Minister simply said: No thanks, when asked to help invade Iraq. He has been proved amply right, over and over.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Yet, they still come ... far more than to any other place on earth.

In most circumstances we call this an invasion. A society that wants to survive, the question can only be how do we stop it.

That sounds racist to me. Also it is a little ignorant of the German schooling system. The Germans are to say the least quite thorough in bringing people up to pronounce the words of their language and to understand the basics of their culture. The children of these immigrants will become far more assimilated than their parents.

There's only so much that environment can do about that. From what I've seen, second generation immigrants in Europe haven't assimilated well. If anything, they've been more troublesome than their parents.

Also unlike an earlier wave of Turkish immigrants which was mainly to fill menial roles many of these Syrian immigrants are actually the more dynamic , educated and professional element of their society with the get up and go to uproot and go to another country.

Many, if not most, of these "Syrian" immigrants are not Syrian at all.

I posted up a video in the International Politics section that makes precisely that point.

 

[mindlight]

There's only so much that environment can do about that. From what I've seen, second generation immigrants in Europe haven't assimilated well. If anything, they've been more troublesome than their parents.

I think you have to take this country by country. The multicultural strategy of Blair era Britain was clearly a massive failure and led to the emergence of some pretty nasty radical Islamic groups based in the UK. Pakistanis were a particularly radicalised community for instance. But German Turks are quite different. many eat pork and drink beer for instance and enjoy lifestyles far superior to those they would have had in Turkey. Germany is a much larger country than Britain but only supplied a similar number of Jihaddis to the war in Syria. So it appears slightly less radicalised. The German government is making efforts to assimilate these people.

Many, if not most, of these "Syrian" immigrants are not Syrian at all. I posted up a video in the International Politics section that makes precisely that point.

Many asylum requests from other countries will be rejected. Making it to Germany does not guarantee continued presence. The Germans will process these applications in time.

 

[mindlight]

It's utterly false to suggest that the ISIS is nicer than - or that life is more comfortable under than - the Baathist government of Bashar al Assad. And then when you suggest that it's all the fault of the Obama Administration: believe me, it all started long before the Obama Administration. The George W. Bush Administration's intervention in Iraq was based on a falsehood, and what business was it of theirs, in any case? Up here, the Canadian Prime Minister simply said: No thanks, when asked to help invade Iraq. He has been proved amply right, over and over.

In essence a deadly order has been replaced by a deadly chaos. The body bag count of the deadly order in Iraq was definitely higher than the deadly chaos that followed it and especially when the Americans were there. Even in Syria the body bag count was quite high as Assad dealt with his political enemies and cultivated wars in Lebanon or supported terrorism in Israel for instance although in this case the war with IS has resulted in far higher levels of casualties. Many of these are being inflicted by Assad on the population he is trying to subdue. IS are the product of a radicalised stream of original Islamic theology that clearly resonates with a lot of Arabs across the region. The power of the this ideology means that this war is unlikely to be won by mere brute force as Assad with Iranian and Russian support is attempting. It is hard to see how it will end well.

 

[faroukfarouk]

In essence a deadly order has been replaced by a deadly chaos. The body bag count of the deadly order in Iraq was definitely higher than the deadly chaos that followed it and especially when the Americans were there. Even in Syria the body bag count was quite high as Assad dealt with his political enemies and cultivated wars in Lebanon or supported terrorism in Israel for instance although in this case the war with IS has resulted in far higher levels of casualties. Many of these are being inflicted by Assad on the population he is trying to subdue. IS are the product of a radicalised stream of original Islamic theology that clearly resonates with a lot of Arabs across the region. The power of the this ideology means that this war is unlikely to be won by mere brute force as Assad with Iranian and Russian support is attempting. It is hard to see how it will end well.

There has been nothing unique around the world about what you call deadly order, either in the Baathist governments of Iraq or Syria. Apart from the fact that Iraq has oil, it's hard to see why it was uniquely deemed worthy of expending such political, military and financial capital in order to bring supposed stability there. Iraq has been chronically unstable if one takes the trouble to study its history, and since this instability is part of its political culture, why an expensive military intervention would be calculated to bring it stability is hard to see. What, by arbitrarily going after the Baathist governments in Iraq and Syria, has done is bring even more instability and weaken the existing authorities in the face of ISIS.

When we see the picture of the refugees, it's hard not to conclude that their plight is by courtesy of Mr. Bush (by going into Iraq) and Mr. Obama (by pulling out prematurely and by trying to overthrow Syria's government) combined.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I think you have to take this country by country.

Country of orgin rather than destination country.

The multicultural strategy of Blair era Britain was clearly a massive failure and led to the emergence of some pretty nasty radical Islamic groups based in the UK. Pakistanis were a particularly radicalised community for instance. But German Turks are quite different.

Turks are considerably more Western in their ways than Pakistanis. Even their immigration has raised social issues though.

many eat pork and drink beer for instance and enjoy lifestyles far superior to those they would have had in Turkey.

Many Turks in Turkey drink alcohol too.

Germany is a much larger country than Britain

80 million vs. 64 million. That's not that big of a difference.

You thinks that Syrians are going to assimilate you easy let me ask you this: Why isn't Israel taking any in?