Enhanced ABC video shows Zimmerman's head injury

[pgp_protector]

Was he arrested or not? You seem to say no while others say yes.

Yes.
Report:http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

 

[kermit]

And you're confusing an arrest with a Grand Jury. The guy, no matter how much people hate on him, is still deserving of due process; something I gather many want to side-step.

You are correct.

I am trying not to try Zimmerman, but I find many parts his story don't agree with the evidence or seem questionable. Many are trying him and are finding him guilty, but they are no worse than those who are and are finding him innocent.

 

[pgp_protector]

The argument was that he wasn involving the police, but by violating 911 he arguably became a vigilante.

Their is nothing to Violate, as there are not legal orders given.

You are overstating the evidence and the witnesses. There are 10 witnesses. Only 3 partially corroberate Zimmerman's story. The other 7 cannot corroberate his story. Plus we have the testimony of Martin's girlfirend that state that Martin believed Zimmerman to be a threat to him. Now we have voice experts corroberating Martin's family claims that it was him yelling for help. I find it less than clear who was that attacker and who was the person defending themselves in this case.

Please Post a Link to Martins' Girlfriends Legal Testimony.
Please Post a Link to the Legal Voice Experts Testimony.

 

[pgp_protector]

You are correct.

I am trying not to try Zimmerman, but I find many parts his story don't agree with the evidence or seem questionable. Many are trying him and are finding him guilty, but they are no worse than those who are and are finding him innocent.

Um so much for Innocent Tell PROVEN (you do understand that word right?) Guilty.
By Default you're Innocent in the United States, you may wish to change that, but I personally like it that I'm Innocent by Default.

 

[kermit]

Their is nothing to Violate, as there are not legal orders given.

Regardless of you legalistic games, either Zimmerman was cooperating the the police (which involves cooperating with 911) or he wasn't.

Please Post a Link to Martins' Girlfriends Legal Testimony.
Please Post a Link to the Legal Voice Experts Testimony.

There have been enough news stories about both for the DA to know they will testify. If you are unaware of these news stories then you have little business posting on this topic.

 

[pgp_protector]

Regardless of you legalistic games, either Zimmerman was cooperating the the police (which involves cooperating with 911) or he wasn't.

Regardless of facts?
Blindly cooperating with the 911 dispatchers can get you killed at times.

There have been enough news stories about both for the DA to know they will testify. If you are unaware of these news stories then you have little business posting on this topic.

So now your the arbitrator of who can post where on this forum, when did you get this power?

 

[MachZer0]

Gunshot residue tests and flashing examinations on the killer and deceased would give a much clearer idea of who was where, and doing what when the shot occured. Unfortunately, since the killer has presumeably showered since then and the requisite forensic examination was not conducted at the time...

How do you know that gun residue tests were not conducted?

 

[kermit]

Um so much for Innocent Tell PROVEN (you do understand that word right?) Guilty.
By Default you're Innocent in the United States, you may wish to change that, but I personally like it that I'm Innocent by Default.

You miss my point. Trying someone outside of a court of law, regardless of the outcome, is a travesty of justice.

Many are using phrases like "Martin attacked" and "Zimmerman was definding himself". Those people are not taking a default position of innocence (one I am trying to take) but a definative position of innocence.

I believe that you are not taking a position of "innocent until proven guilty", but rather a position of "innocent".

 

[SOAD]

Yes.
Report:http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

I saw nothing there which said he was arrested. He was 'secured' and 'transported', yet they never said arrested.

 

[pgp_protector]

You miss my point. Trying someone outside of a court of law, regardless of the outcome, is a travesty of justice.

Many are using phrases like "Martin attacked" and "Zimmerman was definding himself". Those people are not taking a default position of innocence (one I am trying to take) but a definative position of innocence.

I believe that you are not taking a position of "innocent until proven guilty", but rather a position of "innocent".

Yes I'm taking the position of Innocent, because he hasn't been proven Guilty.
It's innocent by default.

 

[kermit]

Regardless of facts?quote]
I didn't say that. Now you are misrepresenting me.

So now your the arbitrator of who can post where on this forum, when did you get this power?

If you are unaware of the facts of a case then taking a such a STRONG position of Zimmerman's innocence (rather than a lack of being proven guilty) is unusual to say the least and shows little regard for facts and evidence.

 

[SOAD]

Regardless of facts?
Blindly cooperating with the 911 dispatchers can get you killed at times.

Are you implying that if Zimmerman would have stayed in his car and not followed Martin that his life was in jeopardy?

 

[MachZer0]

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that there is enough doubt as to the veracity of Zimmerman's story as to warrant a trial. The burden or proof of course still lies with the procecution.

You are conflating a trial with a conviction.

Why would you doubt Zimmerman's account. In order to legally doubt his story, you have to have supporting evidence that he is lying or incorrect

 

[pgp_protector]

Regardless of facts?

I didn't say that. Now you are misrepresenting me.

The Facts I'm stating you're disregarding is that 911 request have no need to be complied (as you constantly point out they "DID'T COMPLY"

If you are unaware of the facts of a case then taking a such a STRONG position of Zimmerman's innocence (rather than a lack of being proven guilty) is unusual to say the least and shows little regard for facts and evidence.

The Fact is He IS Innocent Until PROVEN Guilty.

 

[Suomipoika]

If an unarmed man confronts me I would shoot, too. You are legally allowed to fire on someone who threatens you. Unless you're a wimp and then you just start crying.
[/url]

Does the Holy Spirit spur you to label people with pejoratives such as "wimp" and to talk in a contemptuous tone about crying?

http://www.boingboing.net/assets_mt/2010/01/18/Jesus_gun.jpg

No, my common sense does.

So your Jesus would NOT bully people for their weaknesses by calling them "wimp", but you would? He would NOT contempt the tears they shed, but you would?

 

[pgp_protector]

Are you implying that if Zimmerman would have stayed in his car and not followed Martin that his life was in jeopardy?

No, I'm implying that blindly following 911 Request can at times get you killed.

 

[kermit]

The Fact is He IS Innocent Until PROVEN Guilty.

He is assumed to be innocent rather than established to be innocent. Many have established his innocence and therefore are closed to facts that may prove his guilt. Our justice system is based upon impariality defaulting to innocence. Those who have established his innocence are not impartial and therefore are committing every bit the travesty of justice as those who have established his guilt.

 

[MachZer0]

He is assumed to be innocent rather than established to be innocent. Many have established his innocence and therefore are closed to facts that may prove his guilt. Our justice system is based upon impariality defaulting to innocence. Those who have established his innocence are not impartial and therefore are committing every bit the travesty of justice as those who have established his guilt.

And being presumed innocent means there must be probable cause before he can be arrested

 

[SOAD]

No, I'm implying that blindly following 911 Request can at times get you killed.

Then how is that relevent to this case?

 

[pgp_protector]

He is assumed to be innocent rather than established to be innocent. Many have established his innocence and therefore are closed to facts that may prove his guilt. Our justice system is based upon impariality defaulting to innocence. Those who have established his innocence are not impartial and therefore are committing every bit the travesty of justice as those who have established his guilt.

Sorta, it Presumed (Presumption) of Innocence.

In the law of evidence, a presumption of a particular fact can be made without the aid of proof in some situations. The types of presumption includes a rebuttable discretionary presumption, a rebuttable mandatory presumption, and an irrebuttable or conclusive presumption. The invocation of a presumption shifts the burden of proof from one party to the opposing party in a court trial. Presumptions are sometimes categorized into two types: presumptions without basic facts, and presumptions with basic facts. In the United States, mandatory presumptions are impermissible in criminal cases, but permissible presumptions are allowed.