Emergant Church... Christian or cult.

[sunlover1]

Now, how about Scripture to show that these are demonstrably false teachings?

I'd be interested in some clarification on the first statement:

Buddhist, Hindu, and Jewish disciples don't have to adhere to Christianity: "The I must add, though, that I don't believe making disciples must equal making adherence to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many(not all!)circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu, or Jewish contexts. This will be hard, you say, and I agree. But frankly, it's not at all easy to be a follower of Jesus in many "Christian" religious context, either."

 

[dies-l]

I'd be interested in some clarification on the first statement:

I am not Brian McClaren and I don't agree with everything he says (although I do think he has a better grasp of Scripture than many well known evangelical teachers). That said, I would want some clarification on that statement with regard to, e.g., Hindus. However, I have no problem seeing how a practicing Buddhist or a practicing Jew could be a sincere follower of Jesus. We see the latter all through the New Testament. And, I would point out that there are no teachings that are central to Buddhism that are in contradiction to Christ's teachings. Certainly, there are sects of Buddhism who engage in certain practices that might be problematic, but the question is whether a person can follow Jesus and still follow the essential teachings of Buddhism, and I see no reason why they cannot. However, I would say that Buddhism and Judaism are likely somewhat unique in this regard, and most other world religions do contain essential teachings that cannot be reconciled with Christ's teachings.

 

[groktruth]

I believe that Dr. Moody, studying hear death experiences, reports that Muslims meet (and worship) Jesus in their afterlife experience, while Christians more often deal with family or angels. The point is, our sins are all forgiven, and although I think I may know something about theology, the scriptures warn me that "I don't know as I ought to know" if I am sure about what I think. Humility is essential.

70-80% of Americans think that they are saved Christians. Really? Would not a nation with that much salt show a bit more national holiness?

In the times of delusion, receiving the love of the truth is a really good idea. We can know who is lying. They say that they know the Lord, but they do not keep His commandments. Those who do keep His commandments start by knowing that the commandments referred to are the imperative voice commands of Jesus to His disciples, not the law and the prophets, or the "ten" commandments.

 

[Hairy Tic]

I have been hearing a lot about the emergant church these days and what the do or do not believe. This question comes to mind, it the emergant church Christian or cult?

## I have a very bad feeling about this - if the EC is one of these movements that rails against "churchianity", and vilifies the existing Churches, and has eyes wide open to their faults (real or alleged) while being blind to its own: then I have absolutely no doubt it's yet another cult

Its doctrines can be as "Biblical" as people want - if it's just another bunch of church-bashing malcontents, it's a cult.

I would like to be proved wrong. It may be too diverse to be readily described; the features mentioned may be apprent in some parts of it, and completely absent from others. It may be far less malign than it appears. It may be at a cross-roads between being a cult, & being Christian.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I have been hearing a lot about the emergant church these days and what the do or do not believe. This question comes to mind, it the emergant church Christian or cult?

Were the sects that proceeded out of the reformation Christian or cult?

 

[DArceri]

McLaren: “This is how I feel when I’m offered a choice between the roads of exclusivism (only confessing Christians go to heaven), universalism (everyone goes to heaven), and inclusivism (Christians go to heaven, plus at least some others). Each road takes you somewhere, to a place with some advantages and disadvantages, but none of them is the road of my missional calling: blessed in this life to be a blessing to everyone on earth.” (ibid. p. 113.)

Brian McLaren gives his approval of the book Reimagining Christianity. He says of the book: “Alan Jones is a pioneer in reimagining a Christian faith that emerges from authentic spirituality. His work stimulates and encourages me deeply.” (emphasis mine)

Alan Jones in his bookReimagining Christianity explains his panthiestic worldview- “The goal of the converted life is to find God in all things and is based on the conviction of the unity of reality. Everything is connected” (p. 200). “Jesus and Buddha have this in common with all great spiritual teachers-- to make human beings more conscious of themselves” (p. 194).

Jones admits "Christianity as a set of beliefs doesn't work for me. At the same time, I acknowledge the need for ritual and celebration in my life and find fulfillment and joy in many traditional practices. I light candles and ask for the prayers of the saints.... These disciplines ... do not require me to believe literally in angels and the Virgin Birth." (p. 31).


Source: Let Us Reason article:
Now Ready for Prime Time Players
Reinventing Chritianity for our day.

 

[DArceri]

Were the sects that proceeded out of the reformation Christian or cult?

Those that deviate from scripture are cultic false teachings.....


In Galatians 1:6-9, Apostle Paul gave this warning to the early Christians so they will not be misled from the truth...... I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

In II Peter 3:16, this is written: ....speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.​

In I Corinthians 4:6, Apostle Paul warns us not to go beyond what is written...."Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

​

​

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Those that deviate from scripture are cultic false teachings.....


In Galatians 1:6-9, Apostle Paul gave this warning to the early Christians so they will not be misled from the truth...... I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

In II Peter 3:16, this is written: ....speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.​

In I Corinthians 4:6, Apostle Paul warns us not to go beyond what is written...."Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. ​

​

​

God's thoughts are above our thoughts, to say one teaching deviates from the scripture indicates that you have an infallible interpretation . which you do not .

the longer i live this Christian life, the more i see in the scripture, so how can i know whether it is of Him or not especially when it's over small matters .

i see the emergent movement as a continuation of the reformation, removing the catholic elements that the reformists were blind to.

but after this movement stops and tries to establish itself as something like the reformers did, i will still be moving, i just love what God does .

it is so amazing .

 

[sunlover1]

McLaren: “This is how I feel when I’m offered a choice between the roads of exclusivism (only confessing Christians go to heaven), universalism (everyone goes to heaven), and inclusivism (Christians go to heaven, plus at least some others). Each road takes you somewhere, to a place with some advantages and disadvantages, but none of them is the road of my missional calling: blessed in this life to be a blessing to everyone on earth.” (ibid. p. 113.)

Brian McLaren gives his approval of the book Reimagining Christianity. He says of the book: “Alan Jones is a pioneer in reimagining a Christian faith that emerges from authentic spirituality. His work stimulates and encourages me deeply.” (emphasis mine)

Alan Jones in his bookReimagining Christianity explains his panthiestic worldview- “The goal of the converted life is to find God in all things and is based on the conviction of the unity of reality. Everything is connected” (p. 200). “Jesus and Buddha have this in common with all great spiritual teachers-- to make human beings more conscious of themselves” (p. 194).

Jones admits "Christianity as a set of beliefs doesn't work for me. At the same time, I acknowledge the need for ritual and celebration in my life and find fulfillment and joy in many traditional practices. I light candles and ask for the prayers of the saints.... These disciplines ... do not require me to believe literally in angels and the Virgin Birth." (p. 31).


Source: Let Us Reason article:
Now Ready for Prime Time Players
Reinventing Chritianity for our day.

Thank you Darceri.
I just read this to my three teenagers and we're discussing it right now~!

 

[groktruth]

Those that deviate from scripture are cultic false teachings.....


In Galatians 1:6-9, Apostle Paul gave this warning to the early Christians so they will not be misled from the truth...... I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

In II Peter 3:16, this is written: ....speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.​

In I Corinthians 4:6, Apostle Paul warns us not to go beyond what is written...."Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

​

​

If this is true, then there are no Christians in heaven. As Chesterton put it,

"It is not that Christianity has been tried, and found wanting, but that it has been found difficult, and never tried."

The scriptures read to not expect to find eternal life in them, but to use them only as a means to get to Jesus. Then, from what He and His Father say prophetically to each person individually, that they will report ("Hey, God just told me..."), let faith come, and be saved, by grace, through that faith. It is written that Jesus, not the scriptures, are the "word of God." Are those that say that they are "of Christ" not defiling the body, and doomed to destruction? (1 Corinth 1:12, 2:17). I hope not, but hear God say to fear Him and delusion, and get under the authority of a mentor with whom these matters can be discussed, heart to heart. Mentor, discipler, not "pastor" as normally defined. If the two of you are not comfortable reading Hebrews 13:17 together, and reporting what God says to you about that, something is seriously wrong.

 

[Schroeder]

I have been hearing a lot about the emergant church these days and what the do or do not believe. This question comes to mind, it the emergant church Christian or cult?

the only Church is those who profess Christ and put their trust in him and follow the SPirit. all this other stuff is silly. Christ is in you a nd you are to follow him to help your little world. The world you live in day to day. start here and every thing God wants of you will come into focus alot better. But you have to listen. All these new age Chruch want to somehow become God and solve the worlds issues. Doesnt work and wont. Christ is in you and you should follow Him and effect those you are around everyday. And this doesnt mean to think there is no evil or no true right way. there is right and wrong and scripture is clear what they are.

 

[pastorkevin73]

I have been away from this discussion for awhile but today I decided to read some of the more recent posts. I am concerned about some of the talk of being able to be a Chrisitian in another religious context. A Christian can not combine his/her Christian faith with other religions. God's word is clear we cannot worship other gods. Thus we cannot be a part of other religions. We can influence those who are in those religions, we just cannot practice them.

Since my original post I have come to more of an understanding of the emergent church. It really is hard to nail down because there is such a spectrum. You have people who are orthodox in theology but different in practice of the church (eg. Dan Kimball) and you have the other end of the spectrum of those who question everything including the basics of Christianity (ie. salvation). There are definitely some who are the extreme with abusing and questioning scripture; even to the points of being heritics or possibly not even Christin (eg Brian McLaren). I do believe that there are some in the ememrgent church that have some very good questions for us to wrestle with including how we do discipleship and evangelism. We do need to seek the scritpures for answers on these things because in some of these the Church as slipped away from. Especially in regards to evangelism there are many Christians/churches that do not evangelize. This is something that the Church needs to get busy doing and not just talking about it.
At this point I am not willing to say that all in the emergent church are heritics, only a part of it. I don't neccessarily agree with doing church as Dan Kimball does, but I'm not neccessarily say that he is entirely wrong either.
What it comes down to is we need to get back to studying what God says in His Word. Perhaps a study on the church in the book of Acts would be in order.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

well if evangelism were likened to procreation perhaps some churches use more discretion than other churches . it's hard to say with abosolute verity they don't "evangelize" though . not impossible though, any examples that stuck out for you?

 

[pastorkevin73]

well if evangelism were likened to procreation perhaps some churches use more discretion than other churches . it's hard to say with abosolute verity they don't "evangelize" though . not impossible though, any examples that stuck out for you?

I didn't say all, I said many don't evangelize. Example: my last church. I was the only one doing evangelism. In the region that I live there are five evangelical churches and none of them are doing evangelism, at least as a church as a whole. Again I am not saying that all, just many. I also know of Christians and Churches that are doing evangelism. A friend of mine is an associate pastor at a church in a city 30 minutes from me and that church has someone, almost weekly, coming to the faith.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I didn't say all, I said many don't evangelize. Example: my last church. I was the only one doing evangelism. In the region that I live there are five evangelical churches and none of them are doing evangelism, at least as a church as a whole. Again I am not saying that all, just many. I also know of Christians and Churches that are doing evangelism. A friend of mine is an associate pastor at a church in a city 30 minutes from me and that church has someone, almost weekly, coming to the faith.

i suppose what you're saying makes sense in a context when evangelism is an isolated activity instead of an integral part of how you live .

 

[pastorkevin73]

i suppose what you're saying makes sense in a context when evangelism is an isolated activity instead of an integral part of how you live .

It should make sense for both. Look evangelism is the proclaimation of the gospel. If we have not shared the good news of the gospel we haven't evangelized. There may be many modes and methods to present the same gospel, but to key is that the gospel is presented. I only know a handful of people who do this on a regular bases.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

It should make sense for both. Look evangelism is the proclaimation of the gospel. If we have not shared the good news of the gospel we haven't evangelized. There may be many modes and methods to present the same gospel, but to key is that the gospel is presented. I only know a handful of people who do this on a regular bases.

that's really too bad .

the best way to proclaim the gospel is to be the good news .

 

[pastorkevin73]

that's really too bad .

the best way to proclaim the gospel is to be the good news .

Paul writes:
"How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?" (Rom 10:14, NIV)

The gospel must be proclaimed verbally or the person will not be able to receive eternal life. Paul is clear on this. I agree that our lives must show for what we believe, but if you believe that a person should not verbally present the gospel then you are believing a lie.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Paul writes:
"How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?" (Rom 10:14, NIV)

The gospel must be proclaimed verbally or the person will not be able to receive eternal life. Paul is clear on this. I agree that our lives must show for what we believe, but if you believe that a person should not verbally present the gospel then you are believing a lie.

so how about deaf people?

does it still need to be verbally proclaimed?

 

[pastorkevin73]

so how about deaf people?

does it still need to be verbally proclaimed?

Let's not be ridiculous.