Ellet J Waggoner?

[Dave-W]

My family name is Waggoner. My dad was an ordained pastor in the Wesleyan Methodist denom, but was out of the ministry when I came along. As I have previously said, I grew up only about 15 miles from Andrews Univ, a major SDA college/seminary.

After my parents broke up, dad dated a SDA woman for a while; but would not marry her as long as she was involved with what he believed to be a "false religion." So he spent a lot of time at the Andrews U library going over SDA theological texts, in an effort to find where the SDA went wrong in order to convince her to leave the SDA. He thought it would be rather easy given the common roots in the Wesleyan Holiness movement of the early 1800s.

That did not work; he never found his "smoking gun" of error. So he moved out of state and ended up marrying someone from another denom he considered "false;" the Church of Christ. (vocal only)

This all happened when I was in grade school and jr high. After I grew up we discussed his research and he told me he came across a "Waggoner" [with our spelling] who seemed to be quite the SDA apologist. He never told me his first name.

SOOOOOOO - kind of by accident doing a web search I recently came across an Ellet J. Waggoner who wrote several books in the 1890s. I am assuming this is the same guy. (cannot verify since dad died about 10 years ago) I am currently reading his book "The Everlasting Covenant."

So here are my questions:

How well does Waggoner portray SDA doctrine - both at the time and today?
Was or is he considered influential in the Adventist movement?
Is/was his proposal that the Mosaic covenant never took effect a true belief in the SDA?

I may have more questions later. Thanks.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

My family name is Waggoner. My dad was an ordained pastor in the Wesleyan Methodist denom, but was out of the ministry when I came along. As I have previously said, I grew up only about 15 miles from Andrews Univ, a major SDA college/seminary.

After my parents broke up, dad dated a SDA woman for a while; but would not marry her as long as she was involved with what he believed to be a "false religion." So he spent a lot of time at the Andrews U library going over SDA theological texts, in an effort to find where the SDA went wrong in order to convince her to leave the SDA. He thought it would be rather easy given the common roots in the Wesleyan Holiness movement of the early 1800s.

That did not work; he never found his "smoking gun" of error. So he moved out of state and ended up marrying someone from another denom he considered "false;" the Church of Christ. (vocal only)

This all happened when I was in grade school and jr high. After I grew up we discussed his research and he told me he came across a "Waggoner" [with our spelling] who seemed to be quite the SDA apologist. He never told me his first name.

SOOOOOOO - kind of by accident doing a web search I recently came across an Ellet J. Waggoner who wrote several books in the 1890s. I am assuming this is the same guy. (cannot verify since dad died about 10 years ago) I am currently reading his book "The Everlasting Covenant."

So here are my questions:

How well does Waggoner portray SDA doctrine - both at the time and today?
Was or is he considered influential in the Adventist movement?
Is/was his proposal that the Mosaic covenant never took effect a true belief in the SDA?

I may have more questions later. Thanks.

Funny you should ask, E.J. Waggoner, eventually left the church over the issue of the prophetic gift and a disbelief in the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14. Waggoner was involved in one of the biggest controversy's in the SDA Church. In 1888 He and a man named A.T. Jones challenged the Doctrines that were written out in 1856. His views are considered the "New" view. His are more biblically based and accurate. His father brought the same subject up in 1856, but was voted down, when EGW, the SDA "prophet" endorsed a different saying "god showed her the other view was correct". This was the crux of the problem in 1888, she changed God's view on the subject. E.J. Waggoner's view on the subject of covenants is more then likely to be biblically accurate, they come from baptist roots.

 

[Dave-W]

Thanks. I asked this same question on another forum and was given a link to a site that included a lot of both Waggoner's and Jones' writings along with White's comments. I realize that her statements were pulled out from their context and reflect only the positive statements. But if it is not a mis-representation, she seemed genuinely pleased with their teaching.

http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/1888_message.php

I understand that both Waggoner and Jones left the SDA, but did their message live on?

 

[Adventist Heretic]

she was please with there teaching, but it contridicted what she had endorsed 30 years earlier

 

[Dave-W]

she was please with there teaching, but it contridicted what she had endorsed 30 years earlier

So where do you see Waggoner's and Jones' message (what I have gotten so far from the book is justification by faith) and the SDA church today?

 

[Adventist Heretic]

it is the foundation of mainline SDAism.
There are different branches of the Sda chruch.
1. Prior to 1888 and Jones and Waggoner are the traditionalists.
2. After 1888, Jones and Waggoner, are the foundation of the conservative branch of the Chruch.
3. Evangelicals are post 1957 Walter Martin & Donald Barnhouse Out side Christian. This lead to the Traditionalist creating "independent ministries". In doing so they created a separate parallel church which diminished there influence. This lead to lead to Desmond Ford inside SDA openly challenging SDA's foundational doctrine in 1980 and which forced the church to look for new answers outside Adventism. The church today is a mixture of Conservative's and Evangeliscal's, With a 2 new branches developing the Messianic branch, commonly called "feast keepers" and the Liberal with is mainly in the SDA Colleges, schools and Hospitals. they are more cultural SDA then actual sda. If you liberal democrats that go to church, you wouldn't be too far from the truth.

 

[Dave-W]

With a 2 new branches developing the Messianic branch, commonly called "feast keepers" and the Liberal with is mainly in the SDA Colleges, schools and Hospitals.

Unfamiliar with both of these branches. What can you tell me about them? I am especially interested in the "Messianic" branch.

In reading more about Ellet, I found out he died in the same town my dad was born in, with 12 years between them. I suspect we are related. My youngest daughter is the family genealogy guru and she is working on answering whether we are or are not related.