Egw

[Airdude]

Maybe some fellow SDAs can help me with this one. Do you believe it is possible to fully defend our faith with the bible only, without using EGW quotes?

Also, if you are studying our faith with somone, at what point and how do you go about introducing EGW?

Personally, I believe that our fundamental beliefs stand up very well with biblical support. I don't have any issue with EGW except to say that I think we should be careful not to have the appearance of placing her writings above scripture.

Any thoughts on this subject?

 

[Cliff2]

Maybe some fellow SDAs can help me with this one. Do you believe it is possible to fully defend our faith with the bible only, without using EGW quotes?

Also, if you are studying our faith with somone, at what point and how do you go about introducing EGW?

Personally, I believe that our fundamental beliefs stand up very well with biblical support. I don't have any issue with EGW except to say that I think we should be careful not to have the appearance of placing her writings above scripture.

Any thoughts on this subject?

The Investigative Judgement, State of the Dead, Sabbath etc etc all can be fully supported by the Bible and the Bible alone.

I believe the "27 Fundamental Beliefs" are done well and have the support from the Bible.

Now your next question about when should EGW be introduced is not so easy to answer.

It really depends upon the situation that has developed as you do the study.

Some people get to know Adventism through the writtings of EGW and so there is not so much trouble.

Others even though they are baptised never really accept the EGW as part of the concept of the SOP. That becomes more of an issue and often they enc up leaving the Church through some anti-EGW material that has been passed around.

Perhaps it is really best to pray about it and allow the Holy Spirit to lead.

 

[Airdude]

The Investigative Judgement, State of the Dead, Sabbath etc etc all can be fully supported by the Bible and the Bible alone.

I believe the "27 Fundamental Beliefs" are done well and have the support from the Bible.

Now your next question about when should EGW be introduced is not so easy to answer.

It really depends upon the situation that has developed as you do the study.

Some people get to know Adventism through the writtings of EGW and so there is not so much trouble.

Others even though they are baptised never really accept the EGW as part of the concept of the SOP. That becomes more of an issue and often they enc up leaving the Church through some anti-EGW material that has been passed around.

Perhaps it is really best to pray about it and allow the Holy Spirit to lead.

Thanks Cliff,
I agree with you. It just seems that the concept of the SOP is often a very sticky issue.

 

[PaleHorse]

Maybe some fellow SDAs can help me with this one. Do you believe it is possible to fully defend our faith with the bible only, without using EGW quotes?

Also, if you are studying our faith with somone, at what point and how do you go about introducing EGW?

Personally, I believe that our fundamental beliefs stand up very well with biblical support. I don't have any issue with EGW except to say that I think we should be careful not to have the appearance of placing her writings above scripture.

Any thoughts on this subject?

First off I'd like to address what you wrote last, about keeping scripture above the writings of EGW. The Bible, and the Bible only, is our standard; the writings of EGW act more as a magnifying glass. It is the Bible that creates and supports our doctrines, not the writings of EGW. If I need EGW writings to support my beliefs, and not the Bible, then I'm in the wrong denomination, right? You see, this is why, in America at least, SDAs are often referred to as being a 'cult'. When fellow SDAs treat EGW's writings as being equal to the Bible, and witness according to her writings, that paints a bad picture and makes it appear that Ellen is our God - and that is "cult-like" behaviour. This should never NEVER be the case! While I do not disown her writings, for I believe them to truly be inspired writings that lead to greter understanding of the scriptures, I never place them equal to or above the Holy Bible.

And yes, I believe it is fully possible that our faith, beliefs, and doctrines can be fully defended with the Bible only. As you've seen from my essays, I can take any of our docturnal beliefs, and use nothing but scripture, firmly establish our perspective of the truth with them. In fact, it is the Bible that is used to determine if EGW was in fact a messenger of God or not - not the other way around as many have claimed we do.

As to the question about when do I introduce EGW to people that I'm witnessing to - that's an easy one. I tell them right up front when I show them the 28 fundamental beliefs we have. I don't hide her. But, just as EGW herself says, do not give her writings any credibility at all until your are FIRST firmly rooted in the teachings of the Bible. So, after much much study, that is when I'd re-introduce her writings - to amplify what the Bible has already taught. So the short answer is I do it first and last.

 

[PaleHorse]

Others even though they are baptised never really accept the EGW as part of the concept of the SOP. That becomes more of an issue and often they end up leaving the Church through some anti-EGW material that has been passed around.

I think that the root of this problem lies in laziness. You see, most people today don't like to read as our forefathers did. We live in a world of fast food, fast fun, and fast information (the Internet and television); as such, many church members do not even read the writings of EGW for they get spoiled by the world around them - so when they come across some of those anti-EGW sites and are pelted with misinformation, information and quotes taken out of context, etc - they loose faith and leave the church. But they don't stop and think "hey, maybe I should actually read her writings before making a judgment on them". Duh! How else are they to make an informed decision? But reading EGW is something that each individual needs to decide on doing for themselves; if we try and cram it down the throats of our children they will rebel. If we try and teach EGW too much then we are putting her words above those of the Bible - and that is not right either. There is a balance that must be struck and a laziness-curve that must be overcome.
Now, not to sound hypocritical, but my studies of the Bible come first and as such (for I haven't been Adventist for very long) I haven't read very much EGW. I know what I know of her writings through fellow church members of whom I trust. I have most of her books and I have all of her writings on my computer, so I can quickly reference her material if I need to - but before I start fully reading her material in earnest I am going to ensure I am well versed in Biblical truth. That way I can get more meaning out of her writings later.
In short, I would be Adventist even if EGW never existed for I find the Adventist message and doctrines firmly established in the scriptures. But a time will come when I will also pick up EGW and study her writings closely.

 

[Cliff2]

In short, I would be Adventist even if EGW never existed for I find the Adventist message and doctrines firmly established in the scriptures. But a time will come when I will also pick up EGW and study her writings closely. (PaleHorse)

Same here, Adventism is correct and can be fully supported by the Bible.

Growing up an Adventist I was intorduced to EGW at a very young age. At home we were not drowned by her writings but they were always there in the background. Not above the Bible or equal to it but there for guidance to be used as needed.

I really do love the little book "Steps to Christ". When things come up in my life that I need help and encouragement it is a book I often turn to. Some of the quotes on Salvation are so good and plain to see and understand. Even then I still use the Bible not just EGW.

 

[Airdude]

First off I'd like to address what you wrote last, about keeping scripture above the writings of EGW. The Bible, and the Bible only, is our standard; the writings of EGW act more as a magnifying glass. It is the Bible that creates and supports our doctrines, not the writings of EGW. If I need EGW writings to support my beliefs, and not the Bible, then I'm in the wrong denomination, right? You see, this is why, in America at least, SDAs are often referred to as being a 'cult'. When fellow SDAs treat EGW's writings as being equal to the Bible, and witness according to her writings, that paints a bad picture and makes it appear that Ellen is our God - and that is "cult-like" behaviour. This should never NEVER be the case! While I do not disown her writings, for I believe them to truly be inspired writings that lead to greter understanding of the scriptures, I never place them equal to or above the Holy Bible.

And yes, I believe it is fully possible that our faith, beliefs, and doctrines can be fully defended with the Bible only. As you've seen from my essays, I can take any of our docturnal beliefs, and use nothing but scripture, firmly establish our perspective of the truth with them. In fact, it is the Bible that is used to determine if EGW was in fact a messenger of God or not - not the other way around as many have claimed we do.

As to the question about when do I introduce EGW to people that I'm witnessing to - that's an easy one. I tell them right up front when I show them the 28 fundamental beliefs we have. I don't hide her. But, just as EGW herself says, do not give her writings any credibility at all until your are FIRST firmly rooted in the teachings of the Bible. So, after much much study, that is when I'd re-introduce her writings - to amplify what the Bible has already taught. So the short answer is I do it first and last.

Thanks Palehorse, I grew up in an Adventist home where EGW wasn't discussed very much. About three or four years ago my parents stopped attending the SDA church. They are now attending Church of God 7th day. They broke away from the SDA church in the late 1800s partially over EGW. Personally I still believe that she was inspired but I keep running up against vast amounts of negative information about her. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[SassySDA]

Thanks Palehorse, I grew up in an Adventist home where EGW wasn't discussed very much. About three or four years ago my parents stopped attending the SDA church. They are now attending Church of God 7th day. They broke away from the SDA church in the late 1800s partially over EGW. Personally I still believe that she was inspired but I keep running up against vast amounts of negative information about her. Thanks for your thoughts.

You will always run across this problem.

I have been an Adventist since April of this year, after much bible study and research, I came to believe that their focus on biblical truth and scripture was for me.

I don't really remember how I first heard of Ellen White, to be honest, but I asked a lot of questions, and I started to read some of her writings, which I have to tell you I find to be INCREDIBLY beautiful and awe-inspiring.

PaleHorse and his wife sent me a DVD titled: Meet Ellen White. It's the best thing they could have done. This DVD is simply a biography of Ellen White's life, and I found it FASCINATING. It's a NO SLANT towards whether she IS or ISN'T inspired of God. It's more like, Ellen White was born in...etc. She was an incredibly strong woman, and reminded me VERY much of my own grandmother.

From the small amount of formal education she had, after reading some of her works, it became obvious to me VERY quickly that this woman was inspired of God.

Anyone who pays close attention to what Ellen White, herself says, would quickly realize that she would NOT want to be treated as if she were as authoritative as the bible, or heaven forbid, Jesus Christ. Laugh if you will at that second part, I did, but I HAVE run into other Seventh Day Adventists who have gotten upset with me because I said that I didn't believe she was on the same "level" with Jesus.

I have met many SDA's who quote her writings moreso over the bible, and if she were still here with us, she'd be having a FIT.

My church speaks of Ellen White, but not very often. She is most often referred to in Sabbath School, rarely EVER in Worship Service. I have never been given the impression that one MUST "believe in" Ellen White in order to be an Adventist. I, myself, was left to make up my own mind about Ellen White and whether she was inspired of God or not. I truly appreciated that. I was encouraged to read her works, and do any other research I cared to do, and to make up my own mind, and I think that is the key right there...the freedom to come to one's own conclusions.

 

[Airdude]

You will always run across this problem.

I have been an Adventist since April of this year, after much bible study and research, I came to believe that their focus on biblical truth and scripture was for me.

I don't really remember how I first heard of Ellen White, to be honest, but I asked a lot of questions, and I started to read some of her writings, which I have to tell you I find to be INCREDIBLY beautiful and awe-inspiring.

PaleHorse and his wife sent me a DVD titled: Meet Ellen White. It's the best thing they could have done. This DVD is simply a biography of Ellen White's life, and I found it FASCINATING. It's a NO SLANT towards whether she IS or ISN'T inspired of God. It's more like, Ellen White was born in...etc. She was an incredibly strong woman, and reminded me VERY much of my own grandmother.

From the small amount of formal education she had, after reading some of her works, it became obvious to me VERY quickly that this woman was inspired of God.

Anyone who pays close attention to what Ellen White, herself says, would quickly realize that she would NOT want to be treated as if she were as authoritative as the bible, or heaven forbid, Jesus Christ. Laugh if you will at that second part, I did, but I HAVE run into other Seventh Day Adventists who have gotten upset with me because I said that I didn't believe she was on the same "level" with Jesus.

I have met many SDA's who quote her writings moreso over the bible, and if she were still here with us, she'd be having a FIT.

My church speaks of Ellen White, but not very often. She is most often referred to in Sabbath School, rarely EVER in Worship Service. I have never been given the impression that one MUST "believe in" Ellen White in order to be an Adventist. I, myself, was left to make up my own mind about Ellen White and whether she was inspired of God or not. I truly appreciated that. I was encouraged to read her works, and do any other research I cared to do, and to make up my own mind, and I think that is the key right there...the freedom to come to one's own conclusions.

Hi Sassy, thanks for sharing your story and welcome to the SDA family!

 

[Starr SDA Living Word]

God Bless and Happy Sabbath.

 

[Cliff2]

You will always run across this problem.

I have been an Adventist since April of this year, after much bible study and research, I came to believe that their focus on biblical truth and scripture was for me.

I don't really remember how I first heard of Ellen White, to be honest, but I asked a lot of questions, and I started to read some of her writings, which I have to tell you I find to be INCREDIBLY beautiful and awe-inspiring.

PaleHorse and his wife sent me a DVD titled: Meet Ellen White. It's the best thing they could have done. This DVD is simply a biography of Ellen White's life, and I found it FASCINATING. It's a NO SLANT towards whether she IS or ISN'T inspired of God. It's more like, Ellen White was born in...etc. She was an incredibly strong woman, and reminded me VERY much of my own grandmother.

From the small amount of formal education she had, after reading some of her works, it became obvious to me VERY quickly that this woman was inspired of God.

Anyone who pays close attention to what Ellen White, herself says, would quickly realize that she would NOT want to be treated as if she were as authoritative as the bible, or heaven forbid, Jesus Christ. Laugh if you will at that second part, I did, but I HAVE run into other Seventh Day Adventists who have gotten upset with me because I said that I didn't believe she was on the same "level" with Jesus.

I have met many SDA's who quote her writings moreso over the bible, and if she were still here with us, she'd be having a FIT.

My church speaks of Ellen White, but not very often. She is most often referred to in Sabbath School, rarely EVER in Worship Service. I have never been given the impression that one MUST "believe in" Ellen White in order to be an Adventist. I, myself, was left to make up my own mind about Ellen White and whether she was inspired of God or not. I truly appreciated that. I was encouraged to read her works, and do any other research I cared to do, and to make up my own mind, and I think that is the key right there...the freedom to come to one's own conclusions.

Excellent and thanks for your story.

 

[SassySDA]

Hi Sassy, thanks for sharing your story and welcome to the SDA family!

Thanks a lot, Airdude! Glad to be here.

Most of the negativity towards Ellen White stems from people and their over-zealousness to convince others that she was inspired of God.

Ellen White didn't push this idea down peoples' throats, it's been human beings themselves that have done so. In short, everyone needs to remember to keep their eyes on Jesus, for He will never let you down...humans ALWAYS will - eventually.

 

[Airdude]

everyone needs to remember to keep their eyes on Jesus, for He will never let you down...humans ALWAYS will - eventually.

Amen, I like that.

 

[SassySDA]

Amen, I like that.

It's only the truth....as humans we are fallible, even when we don't mean to, we stumble and fall.

Praise Jesus for His patience, His mercy, and His love as He watches us fall over and over again as a parent watches their toddler learn to walk. It's not in the falling down that what we are made of is proven...it's in how we pick ourselves up.

 

[Robert Bee]

Where EGW states GOD said GOD has to know what he is doing.
The churchSDA fell over back in the 1970s as we knew it would. LAODICEA was always going to be part of the WORLD.