Does your Congregation burn incense during worship

[Kvikklunsj]

Can't forget this...

For from the rising of the sun, even to its going down, My name shall be great among the Gentiles; In every place incense shall be offered to My name, And a pure offering; For My name shall be great among the nations,” Says the LORD of hosts.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Can't forget this...

That was posted a few times there kiddo

 

[Fireinfolding]

Oh wait

Theres two incense threads I could be mistaken, I know on Simons thread it has been posted many times lol

 

[Macarius]

If that was so, than God would have told us.

God doesn't tell us NOT to use it either, so you can't say it is wrong to do so.

The heavenly worship, we know, is pleasing to God (for God has ordained it so). The Jews, too, worshiped this way (in conformity with the command of God in the OT). If Christ in heaven is glorified by incense, and God in the OT was glorified by incense, it isn't a great leap of academic wiz-bangery to imagine that God can be glorified by the use of incense.

And I will use any tool at my disposal to glorify God. Hence, I'll use incense that even my NOSE may glorify God.

And I disagree with your criteria (that only things explicitly commanded in Scripture are acceptable as worship).

And, as pointed out, the Apostles used incense (Temple worship and Synagogue worship). So did the early church.

So to imagine that the NT forbids it requires you to do the following:

1) Make an argument from silence (the absence of absolute, direct command being equated with a condemnation of the act)

2) Ignore places where Scripture ISN'T silent on incense, or use rationalization to dismiss those passages.

3) Ignore the way the Apostles worshipped

4) Ignore the way that those the Apostles TAUGHT worshipped. Or, alternatively, imagine that the Apostles were just really really bad teachers who failed to pass on even the most basic of principles to their disciples.

I doubt very seriously that the Angels in heaven take of the communion like we do.

Of course not - we're physical / incarnate; they are not. However, that just makes the case STRONGER for the use of incense. It is used in heavenly worship, but we (unlike angels) have noses and eyes. The symbolic meaning is MORE profound to us.

Indeed - because Christ became Incarnate, we know He redeemed the very physical matter of creation. God cannot change, and God is good, so when God becomes material the material realm must, by this incredible act, be good. Incense, as ALL worship should, takes a part of this physical and material world and offers it to God.

HOW can that be bad? How can it be bad to bring yet another thing into the constraints of the Kingdom and into the worship of God?

I just don't understand why it is bad. It shows up all over Scripture, serves a viable purpose symbolically, involves an underused sense in the worship of God (smell)... Heck it even can be justified just as a way to beautify the service for the glory of God.

It is certainly good for us on earth but I don't understand why it would be the same in Heaven when Christ died for the human race only.

ALL of creation groans in anticipation of Christ's salvation.

[quoteIf you continue reading Revelations, you'll see that those up there worship God a lot differently than we do.[/quote]

Quite differently than YOU do. Our worship is designed to BE the heavenly worship on as many levels as possible.

But no matter, God tells us how He wants to be worshiped.

You keep saying this. Then using the great cop-out "just go read the NT." I've read it in several translations and several times with several different commentaries. I've read it using lectio-devina (as prayer); I've read it using academic historical-critical exegesis (as a study); I've read it with Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, and Patristic commentaries.

I never once found a neatly laid-out guide / outline of a worship service. Not once. NEVER does it say "Go and worship God in this way" EXCEPT in terms of the heart-attitude of the worshippers (i.e. Spirit and Truth).

So, if you'd care to enlighten me, I'm all ears.

But remember that for ANY passage you use to INFER worship (that isn't a direct command) you'll have justified my church's use of incense (since we infer that from its use throughout the OT and NT).

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

My father's Anglican Church (APA) uses it much more frequently.

An APA church

An ACA church

Nice woodwork on both, I like that rood screen (ours was wrought iron).

 

[RND]

That verse commands me to donate blood and do community service.... how?

You mean you wouldn't want someone to donate blood to you if you were in need? Or if you were homeless wouldn't you want someone to cook you at hot meal and clothe you? Where exactly does Matthew 25:31-46 fit in your theology?

 

[SummaScriptura]

I answered we don't burn incense during worship. That does not mean it is not burnt during our worship though. You see, our prayers ascend to God where they are mixed by angels with incense from the heavenly altar. They then ascend as a pleasing aroma before God's throne.

So no, we don't burn it, but yes, it is burnt everytime we pray, especially when we meet and join our voices in prayer.

Revelation 8:3And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, 4and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.

 

[mark46]

Yup, apparently some Protestants believe that incense is worship.

From Matthew Henry's Commentary

"In our returns of duty to God. A spiritual worship shall be established. Incense shall be offered to God's name, which signifies prayer and praise."


Malachi 1:11 My name will be great among the nations, from - Online Bible Study Tools

Can't forget this...

 

[Macarius]

I answered we don't burn incense during worship. That does not mean it is not burnt during our worship though. You see, our prayers ascend to God where they are mixed by angels with incense from the heavenly altar. They then ascend as a pleasing aroma before God's throne.

So no, we don't burn it, but yes, it is burnt everytime we pray, especially when we meet and join our voices in prayer.

Revelation 8:3And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, 4and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.

Not as a prescription for your group, but as a general quesiton: would you consider it wrong for a group (like the EO) to symbolize this by the use of physical incense?

 

[VolRaider]

An APA church

An ACA church

Nice woodwork on both, I like that rood screen (ours was wrought iron).

Nice pics! My dad's church is small and they have been working on it - they had to take the baptistry out of the front because it was a former Baptist church!

 

[Andrew Ryan]

Yep.

 

[Dorothea]

Can't forget this...

 

[Dorothea]

The tradition of men that says "thou shalt not burn incense" is apparently stronger than Scripture

 

[Dorothea]

No we do not.

Guess it would be ok if the building was old and had a "musty" smell.

Incense is sweet and beautiful. I can still smell it on my clothes after I leave church. It lingers, and when it does, it reminds me of worshiping God and of God. It's wonderful. Anyhow, that sweet smell of incense? Get used to that because you'll smell it, God willing, when you depart this life and are in His presence and in His Kingdom.

 

[Dorothea]

God doesn't tell us NOT to use it either, so you can't say it is wrong to do so.

The heavenly worship, we know, is pleasing to God (for God has ordained it so). The Jews, too, worshiped this way (in conformity with the command of God in the OT). If Christ in heaven is glorified by incense, and God in the OT was glorified by incense, it isn't a great leap of academic wiz-bangery to imagine that God can be glorified by the use of incense.

And I will use any tool at my disposal to glorify God. Hence, I'll use incense that even my NOSE may glorify God.

And I disagree with your criteria (that only things explicitly commanded in Scripture are acceptable as worship).

And, as pointed out, the Apostles used incense (Temple worship and Synagogue worship). So did the early church.

So to imagine that the NT forbids it requires you to do the following:

1) Make an argument from silence (the absence of absolute, direct command being equated with a condemnation of the act)

2) Ignore places where Scripture ISN'T silent on incense, or use rationalization to dismiss those passages.

3) Ignore the way the Apostles worshipped

4) Ignore the way that those the Apostles TAUGHT worshipped. Or, alternatively, imagine that the Apostles were just really really bad teachers who failed to pass on even the most basic of principles to their disciples.



Of course not - we're physical / incarnate; they are not. However, that just makes the case STRONGER for the use of incense. It is used in heavenly worship, but we (unlike angels) have noses and eyes. The symbolic meaning is MORE profound to us.

Indeed - because Christ became Incarnate, we know He redeemed the very physical matter of creation. God cannot change, and God is good, so when God becomes material the material realm must, by this incredible act, be good. Incense, as ALL worship should, takes a part of this physical and material world and offers it to God.

HOW can that be bad? How can it be bad to bring yet another thing into the constraints of the Kingdom and into the worship of God?

I just don't understand why it is bad. It shows up all over Scripture, serves a viable purpose symbolically, involves an underused sense in the worship of God (smell)... Heck it even can be justified just as a way to beautify the service for the glory of God.



ALL of creation groans in anticipation of Christ's salvation.

If you continue reading Revelations, you'll see that those up there worship God a lot differently than we do.

Quite differently than YOU do. Our worship is designed to BE the heavenly worship on as many levels as possible.



You keep saying this. Then using the great cop-out "just go read the NT." I've read it in several translations and several times with several different commentaries. I've read it using lectio-devina (as prayer); I've read it using academic historical-critical exegesis (as a study); I've read it with Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, and Patristic commentaries.

I never once found a neatly laid-out guide / outline of a worship service. Not once. NEVER does it say "Go and worship God in this way" EXCEPT in terms of the heart-attitude of the worshippers (i.e. Spirit and Truth).

So, if you'd care to enlighten me, I'm all ears.

But remember that for ANY passage you use to INFER worship (that isn't a direct command) you'll have justified my church's use of incense (since we infer that from its use throughout the OT and NT).

You go, brother! Yes, we are to worship God with all of our heart, mind, soul/spirit, AND BODY. And through worshiping with the body, we use the senses and physically, such as kneeling, prostrating, doing the sign of the cross, kissing, singing, etc. We worship God with everything we got because it's all His and we glorify Him! And of course, the visual aids help us to focus more, the smell helps us to think of God throughout the day because the incense lingers on our clothes after Liturgy, and the hymns stay with us as well. Glory to God for all things!!!

 

[daydreamergurl15]

it is demonstrated in the New Testament, and prophesied in the Old Testament.

What is the prophesied in the OT that tells us that we will be using it in worship in the NT?

The demonstration in the New Testament deals with the heavenly beings. Not only are they using the incense in a golden bowl but those verses tells us that those incense are the prayers of the saints...somehow I doubt very seriously that our incense would be the same as they are using.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

"If Angels could be jealous of men, they would be so for one reason: Holy Communion." ~ St. Maximilian Kolbe

No, the angels do not take Communion, but they still worship Him who is the Bread of Angels.

I didn't say that they didn't worship Him but that their worship would be differently than ours. And parking of the communion is one example.

Actually, it may be a lot different than what you do, but what we do is a participation in that Heavenly Liturgy.

Anyways. Not only are you arguing about something that we have no scripture telling us humans to do while on earth when we worship God under the new covenant, we also see that the "incense" that people are using Revelations as, tells us that the incense are "the prayers of the saints"....somehow I don't think we have those types of incense and I'm certainly not going to introduce something in scripture we are not told too.

Yes, you just have to be willing to listen.

No, you just have to be willing to read.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Incense used in Liturgy represents and is symbolic of our prayers ascending to Heaven. The symbol and the reality go together quite nicely.

No where in scripture does the bible tell us that IF WE BURNED INCENSE than it would be figurative of our prayers ascending to heaven. If you go back to the Old Testament when Aaron was required to burn incense, please read what it says:

Exodus 30:1-10
1 "You shall make an altar on which to burn incense; you shall make it of acacia wood. 2A cubit shall be its length, and a cubit its breadth. It shall be square, and two cubits shall be its height. Its horns shall be of one piece with it. 3You shall overlay it with pure gold, its top and around its sides and its horns. And you shall make a molding of gold around it. 4And you shall make two golden rings for it. Under its molding on two opposite sides of it you shall make them, and they shall be holders for poles with which to carry it. 5You shall make the poles of acacia wood and overlay them with gold. 6And you shall put it in front of the veil that is above the ark of the testimony, in front of the mercy seat that is above the testimony, where I will meet with you. 7And Aaron shall burn fragrant incense on it. Every morning when he dresses the lamps he shall burn it, 8and when Aaron sets up the lamps at twilight, he shall burn it, a regular incense offering before the LORD throughout your generations. 9You shall not offer unauthorized incense on it, or a burnt offering, or a grain offering, and you shall not pour a drink offering on it. 10 Aaron shall make atonement on its horns once a year. With the blood of the sin offering of atonement he shall make atonement for it once in the year throughout your generations. It is most holy to the LORD."​

Now, if your church is wanting to keep practice of burning incense, I hope it's on an altar. Because you're not going to get any new commandments about burning incense under the new covenant.

Thankfully Christ gave us a Church.

Yes, and thankful He gave us His word through the Spirit so that we can go back and read and SEE how the first century church worshiped.

What?!? You wouldn't use the incense to worship the Lamb? I hope I'm misreading that....

I am not asked too. If I were asked to, I would burn the incense in the way He wants it. He does not tell us how to use incense under the new covenant and I'm glad that our congregation will not introduce something in scripture which God gave us no authority to do so.

Even in those verses that some are showing in Revelations, it still doesn't tell us humans, who are here on earth, to do the same.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

God doesn't tell us NOT to use it either, so you can't say it is wrong to do so.

The fact that it doesn't tell us to, doesn't mean that we can assume that it's okay to do such a thing.

If people are going to sit there and practice burning incense, then I would suggest you do it according to Exodus 30:1-10. Because He does warn the children of Israel that "You shall not offer strange incense on it or a burn offering or a grain offering; nor shall you pour a drink offering on it..

And just so you know, there is a reason why I don't bother bashing the way your church worship and I keep steering you to read the scripture and I imploy you to do so with an open heart, because I believe the scripture is the best way of correction. Because it's obvious whatever I say, you'll find fault in it but if you read the scripture, you'll see it.

 

[SummaScriptura]

Not as a prescription for your group, but as a general quesiton: would you consider it wrong for a group (like the EO) to symbolize this by the use of physical incense?

No, actually I don't think it is wrong per se. I do think there is a danger that simple uneducated folk could come to put more into it than that, though.

Here's the deal, some Protestant groups are avoidant of this stuff so that those who come anchor their faith in what is unseen, not in the work of the people. I am one who is prone to this avoidance. I don't like Christians with unconverted hearts placing their faith in externals, whether that external is an "altar call" or incense.