Does the "Q" Gospel exist?

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Anglian

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Q, from the German Quelle, for source, is the 'sayings of Jesus' list which, many scholars hold was, along with the Gospel According to St. Mark, the main source for the Gospels of St. Matthew and St. Luke. We can identify much from St. Mark in the other two synoptic Gospels, but they also have much material in common from another source which we no longer possess. Scholars call this Q.

It is an interesting hypothesis, but, as with the originals of the Gospels themselves, no original has ever been located; but unlike the Gospels, no later copies have been found either. But, since all it may have contained is in the Gospels, the early Christians may well have seen no need to keep it once the Gospels were in circulation. They contain, as St. John says, all we need to know to embrace Christ as our Saviour, and as the word of God, we need no others.

peace,

Anglian
 
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Q, from the German Quelle, for source, is the 'sayings of Jesus' list which, many scholars hold was, along with the Gospel According to St. Mark, the main source for the Gospels of St. Matthew and St. Luke. We can identify much from St. Mark in the other two synoptic Gospels, but they also have much material in common from another source which we no longer possess. Scholars call this Q.

It is an interesting hypothesis, but, as with the originals of the Gospels themselves, no original has ever been located; but unlike the Gospels, no later copies have been found either. But, since all it may have contained is in the Gospels, the early Christians may well have seen no need to keep it once the Gospels were in circulation. They contain, as St. John says, all we need to know to embrace Christ as our Saviour, and as the word of God, we need no others.

peace,

Anglian


Does that mean that you believe that it did exist?
 
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Anglian

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Does that mean that you believe that it did exist?
Yes, the evidence does suggest that St. Luke and St. Matthew take some of their sayings of the Lord from a source that was not St. Mark. They take the same sayings in more or less the same order. We know, from the blessed St. Luke himself that he gathered together all the materials he could and talked to many witnesses (this is one reason atheists get it wrong with the Bible - the evidence is all there), so it seems probable that he had access to this list of sayings, as did St. Matthew.

There may, of course, be other reasons for the overlap in material, but given we know that the first overlap is the common use of St. Mark, it is not unreasonable to suppose they had another source in common - as well, of course, as being inspired by the same Holy Spirit:) (another explanation, of course).

peace,

Anglian
 
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Yes, the evidence does suggest that St. Luke and St. Matthew take some of their sayings of the Lord from a source that was not St. Mark. They take the same sayings in more or less the same order. We know, from the blessed St. Luke himself that he gathered together all the materials he could and talked to many witnesses (this is one reason atheists get it wrong with the Bible - the evidence is all there), so it seems probable that he had access to this list of sayings, as did St. Matthew.

There may, of course, be other reasons for the overlap in material, but given we know that the first overlap is the common use of St. Mark, it is not unreasonable to suppose they had another source in common - as well, of course, as being inspired by the same Holy Spirit:) (another explanation, of course).

peace,

Anglian

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
 
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BereanTodd

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There may, of course, be other reasons for the overlap in material, but given we know that the first overlap is the common use of St. Mark, it is not unreasonable to suppose they had another source in common - as well, of course, as being inspired by the same Holy Spirit:) (another explanation, of course).

peace,

Anglian


You are making some real leaps even there. Virtually all of the early church held to a Matthean priority of the Gospels, not a Markan, and even if the Markan view is the predominant of our day it is far from a sure or settled matter. Many good and solid scholars still hold to a Matthean priority, I myself hold the position.
 
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Elijah2

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It appears that the “Q Gospel” teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ hold the key to an understanding that HE is fundamentally “non-Christian”. The scholars, the authors of Q did not view our Lord Jesus Christ as “the Christ”, “the anointed one”, the “promised Messiah”, or as “the redeemer” who had atoned for their sins by HIS crucifixion, or as the “Son of God” who rose from the dead.

Instead, the authors esteemed HIM as simply a roving “wise person” who preached a life of being without possessions, wandering around, and being fully accepted by fellow human beings as being a “good guy”, who had little supernatural baggage, but had much respect for cultural diversity.

The scholars have roughly ascertained and identified that 235 verses in Luke and Matthew is of “Q” material source that don’t include the Gospel narratives of HIS passion and resurrection, which seem to have come from other sources, written or oral.

The scholars contend that the authors of “Q” knew nothing about the way that our Lord Jesus Christ died, or about the stories of an empty tomb, and if they knew, they didn’t simply care. Hence there was no “atonement” doctrine in “Q” theology. And because belief in HIS resurrection is the core belief of a believer in “Christianity”, even though very liberal Christians of today profess faith in the Easter event, if only as a metaphor for “renewal”, it appears that the people who wrote “Q” must have been adherents of Jesus in Palestine, who were not "Christians", but admired HIM. They were referred to as being “Jewish Christians”, a confusing term at that.

The preferred designation nowadays for the group of which they were a part is referred to as the “Jesus movement”. It appears that it had take some decades, for the “Q” partisans to believe in HIM, before the movement was subsumed into a “cult of Christ”, who are the forefathers of our life as they were largely Gentile, centred on the cross and the resurrection, which was a “cult” in those early days and became known as “Christianity”.
 
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It appears that the “Q Gospel” teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ hold the key to an understanding that HE is fundamentally “non-Christian”. The scholars, the authors of Q did not view our Lord Jesus Christ as “the Christ”, “the anointed one”, the “promised Messiah”, or as “the redeemer” who had atoned for their sins by HIS crucifixion, or as the “Son of God” who rose from the dead.

Instead, the authors esteemed HIM as simply a roving “wise person” who preached a life of being without possessions, wandering around, and being fully accepted by fellow human beings as being a “good guy”, who had little supernatural baggage, but had much respect for cultural diversity.

The scholars have roughly ascertained and identified that 235 verses in Luke and Matthew is of “Q” material source that don’t include the Gospel narratives of HIS passion and resurrection, which seem to have come from other sources, written or oral.

The scholars contend that the authors of “Q” knew nothing about the way that our Lord Jesus Christ died, or about the stories of an empty tomb, and if they knew, they didn’t simply care. Hence there was no “atonement” doctrine in “Q” theology. And because belief in HIS resurrection is the core belief of a believer in “Christianity”, even though very liberal Christians of today profess faith in the Easter event, if only as a metaphor for “renewal”, it appears that the people who wrote “Q” must have been adherents of Jesus in Palestine, who were not "Christians", but admired HIM. They were referred to as being “Jewish Christians”, a confusing term at that.

The preferred designation nowadays for the group of which they were a part is referred to as the “Jesus movement”. It appears that it had take some decades, for the “Q” partisans to believe in HIM, before the movement was subsumed into a “cult of Christ”, who are the forefathers of our life as they were largely Gentile, centred on the cross and the resurrection, which was a “cult” in those early days and became known as “Christianity”.


The Q theory as an anti-Christ conspiracy.....hmmm. I can't say the thought hadn't crossed my mind. Thanks for sharing E2.
 
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You are making some real leaps even there. Virtually all of the early church held to a Matthean priority of the Gospels, not a Markan, and even if the Markan view is the predominant of our day it is far from a sure or settled matter. Many good and solid scholars still hold to a Matthean priority, I myself hold the position.


Thanks for sharing that. My inital impression of the whole "Q" conspiracy is that of gross educated speculation.

It seems to me, that without more evidence it is impossible to make a reasonable conclusion. I am hoping to find something that I might consider pertinent, but as of yet on this subject it is still under my personal category of a contrived, left field "non-issue"

I am hoping to better understand the significance of a conclusion one way or the other.
 
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Alpine

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I believe that the theory of a Q gospel is a view held typically by liberal scholars, who seem to think that it's not possible that the four gospels could be so similar and yet not have one same source.

It seems almost every History channel documentary on scripture brings up the Q gospel. And who pushes this idea of the Q gospel?

Ah! It's the Jesus seminar of course. Liberal scholars who don't even believe that Jesus is the Messiah! These are always the scholars you see on those shows.They are liberals who don't hold a high view of scripture as inspired of the Holy Spirit.
 
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I believe that the theory of a Q gospel is a view held typically by liberal scholars, who seem to think that it's not possible that the four gospels could be so similar and yet not have one same source.

It seems almost every History channel documentary on scripture brings up the Q gospel. And who pushes this idea of the Q gospel?

Ah! It's the Jesus seminar of course. Liberal scholars who don't even believe that Jesus is the Messiah! These are always the scholars you see on those shows.They are liberals who don't hold a high view of scripture as inspired of the Holy Spirit.


The only problem I have with your conclusion is that conservative scholars believe in "Q" as well. I hear what you are saying though.
 
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hislegacy

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I believe that the theory of a Q gospel is a view held typically by liberal scholars, who seem to think that it's not possible that the four gospels could be so similar and yet not have one same source.

It seems almost every History channel documentary on scripture brings up the Q gospel. And who pushes this idea of the Q gospel?

Ah! It's the Jesus seminar of course. Liberal scholars who don't even believe that Jesus is the Messiah! These are always the scholars you see on those shows.They are liberals who don't hold a high view of scripture as inspired of the Holy Spirit.


QFT :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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Elijah2

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The Q theory as an anti-Christ conspiracy.....hmmm. I can't say the thought hadn't crossed my mind. Thanks for sharing E2.

Oh well Twiggy, at least many of them became saved, and that book got shelved. But, it's interesting that some part do appear in the NT.:)
 
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Elijah2

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The only problem I have with your conclusion is that conservative scholars believe in "Q" as well. I hear what you are saying though.

I wonder if any of their beliefs have slid into the Codex and Vaticanus?:)
 
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