Doctrine, Dogma, "T"radition and "t"radition . . . .

[Mary of Bethany]

I kind of agree. However, if Simon wants to "question" the tradition/practice he can do so. But I would prefer that we avoid sneaky implications about what others believe and teach.

So, since it appears that Simon believes that if something is referred to in the Catechism, it is therefore "doctrine," I will just ask, "is it?" Does the Catechism speak only on doctrine, or does it also discuss observances and traditions?

Sorry if I overstepped my bounds there, I just could see this thread deteriorating into the same ol' endless debate over what Catholics do or don't believe.

Mary

 

[racer]

Sorry if I overstepped my bounds there, I just could see this thread deteriorating into the same ol' endless debate over what Catholics do or don't believe.

Mary

No, no, no . . . . I didn't mean to make you feel like your comment was unwarranted or unwelcome! You haven't overstepped any bounds here . . . . . . Forgive me for making you feel that way.

I want this to be "question" and "answer." If someone has a certain perception of which they are not sure, it would be nice if he/she would phrase it like, "I understand the Baptist/Catholic faith to believe . . . . am I correct."

I don't want it to just be questioning of Catholicism. Please, Catholics and Orthodox, this is your chance to throw some questions at us? Which of our faiths do you question? Let us explain . . . . . .

 

[Asinner]

Please, Catholics and Orthodox, this is your chance to throw some questions at us? Which of our faiths do you question? Let us explain . . . . . .

You sound like a politician.

 

[tadoflamb]

I have a question.

Since all Protestant denominations reject an ordained priesthood and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, why do some Protestant ministers retain the tradition of wearing priestly vestments?

Thanks in advance,

Tad

 

[PassthePeace1]

Catholics belief in the Communion of Saints is dogmatic (big "T"), but the practice of having a devotion to a Patron Saint is "t"radition.

By the term communion of saints, we don't believe that the phyiscal death of a member of the Mystical Body of Christ, with Christ as the Head, are separated from the members, still phyiscally alive; so we still share in a common work of prayer ( for the Church and her members), and worship of Our Lord.

Peace be with you...Pam

 

[ScottBot]

CCC #1580, doesn't sound like mere discipline to me!

Since all but the Latin Rite has married priest, I think that you are either misunderstanding or misapplying this piece of the Catechism.

1580 In the Eastern Churches a different discipline has been in force for many centuries: while bishops are chosen solely from among celibates, married men can be ordained as deacons and priests. This practice has long been considered legitimate; these priests exercise a fruitful ministry within their communities.73 Moreover, priestly celibacy is held in great honor in the Eastern Churches and many priests have freely chosen it for the sake of the Kingdom of God. In the East as in the West a man who has already received the sacrament of Holy Orders can no longer marry.

What is the problem with this?

 

[freespiritchurch]

I would say that in the fellowship I'm part of (Disciples of Christ) there are only a few required rules:

* No church can impose a creed as a test of fellowship
* Celebration of the Lord's Supper in worship
* Baptism in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit
* Each local congregation is free to govern itself

 

[PassthePeace1]

I would say that in the fellowship I'm part of (Disciples of Christ) there are only a few required rules:

* No church can impose a creed as a test of fellowship
* Celebration of the Lord's Supper in worship
* Baptism in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit
* Each local congregation is free to govern itself

I was wondering some of the brief history behind your denomination. My ancestors were Quakers that came over with William Penn, to be part of the Holy Experiment. However, a few generations later they got caught up in the schism in the 1800s....most of my family left the Quakers and became Disciples of Christ. I noticed you listed imposes no creed as a test of fellowship,.....so I was wondering, if there was a connect to Disciples of Christ and Quakers in the 1800s?

Never really thought about why they became Disciples of Christ, before I saw your post and wondered if their was a connection.

Does celebration of the Lord's Supper in worship, mean that ya'll don't use any outward elements (bread and wine) for Communion? If so, that would be another strong similarity.

Thanks, in advance....Peace be with you...Pam

 

[freespiritchurch]

I was wondering some of the brief history behind your denomination. My ancestors were Quakers that came over with William Penn, to be part of the Holy Experiment. However, a few generations later they got caught up in the schism in the 1800s....most of my family left the Quakers and became Disciples of Christ. I noticed you listed imposes no creed as a test of fellowship,.....so I was wondering, if there was a connect to Disciples of Christ and Quakers in the 1800s?

Never really thought about why they became Disciples of Christ, before I saw your post and wondered if their was a connection.

Does celebration of the Lord's Supper in worship, mean that ya'll don't use any outward elements (bread and wine) for Communion? If so, that would be another strong similarity.

Thanks, in advance....Peace be with you...Pam

No, you have to use bread and a cup. The thing that makes Disciples churches different from other "non-liturgical" churches is that we celebrate communion every week.

Non-creedalism is at the root of the Disciples, so it's very possible that your ancestors could have been drawn by that, but there's no direct historical connection.

 

[racer]

You sound like a politician.

Hmmm . . . . maybe I missed my true calling . . . .

 

[racer]

I have a question.

Since all Protestant denominations reject an ordained priesthood and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, why do some Protestant ministers retain the tradition of wearing priestly vestments?

Thanks in advance,

Tad

I'm not what you call informed on this particular topic, so whatever I answer here is purely speculation on my part. So, anyone who is knowledgeable on this topic, please jump in.

I don't know if I'd say that all protestants "reject" an ordained priesthood. They clearly adhere to an "ordained" ministry. Can't really answer why some of them wear priestly vestments. Actually, the only denominations I've noticed wearing them were Methodist, Lutheran and maybe Episcopalian.

What I would venture to guess at is that what these particular ministers wear is certainly not doctrine.

You're welcome!

 

[racer]

Catholics belief in the Communion of Saints is dogmatic (big "T"), but the practice of having a devotion to a Patron Saint is "t"radition.

By the term communion of saints, we don't believe that the phyiscal death of a member of the Mystical Body of Christ, with Christ as the Head, are separated from the members, still phyiscally alive; so we still share in a common work of prayer ( for the Church and her members), and worship of Our Lord.

Peace be with you...Pam

Pam,

Thank you! I knew you'd get the gist of what I am going for here. But, I'm a little confused when you say that your faith believes that those who leave this world do not die "physically." Did you mean "spiritually?"

 

[racer]

I would say that in the fellowship I'm part of (Disciples of Christ) there are only a few required rules:

* No church can impose a creed as a test of fellowship
* Celebration of the Lord's Supper in worship
* Baptism in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit
* Each local congregation is free to govern itself

You know when I really began contemplating this topic, I realized that most faiths do have very few true dogmatic requirements.

 

[vrunca]

Just popping in to say...Great Thread!!! Very interesting and infromitive!!

 

[racer]

Just popping in to say...Great Thread!!! Very interesting and infromitive!!

Thank you!

 

[PassthePeace1]

No, you have to use bread and a cup. The thing that makes Disciples churches different from other "non-liturgical" churches is that we celebrate communion every week.

Non-creedalism is at the root of the Disciples, so it's very possible that your ancestors could have been drawn by that, but there's no direct historical connection.

Okay, thanks...., they must to have been drawn like you said because of the non-creedalism.

 

[PassthePeace1]

Pam,

Thank you! I knew you'd get the gist of what I am going for here. But, I'm a little confused when you say that your faith believes that those who leave this world do not die "physically." Did you mean "spiritually?"

No, what I meant was what we refer to as death of a person. I phrased it that way, to emphasis that what we call death, is only the death of a body, that the soul is Heaven. And that separation from the body, and the soul--death, doesn't mean that they are separated from the Body of Christ, and it is thru the Body of Christ that we are still united with them, and share in a common work of prayer and worship of Our Lord.

Peace be with you...Pam

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Let's discuss these topics regarding our specific faiths. Let's clear up what "practices" are doctrine/dogma, "t"radition/"T"radition and "Sacred Tradition." Shall we?

Interesting thread!

 

[boswd]

I agree, this is one of your better "bumps"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I agree, this is one of your better "bumps"

Want me to find more to bump up?