Do you believe in fallen angels, devils or ghosts?

Are fallen angels, devils or ghosts real?

  • Yes, and we need protection from Messiah Jesus - Yeshua.

  • No, but lots of Christians have psychological problems.

  • Yes, but they are powerless against us if we stay close to God!

  • No, we evolved from apes and have nothing invisible to worry about.


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DennisTate

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I read a fascinating book last Saturday and it got me wondering what my fellow Christians believe regarding fallen angels, devils, ghosts and such???

"During the mid '70's, an unholy spirit visited Dad every spring for a number of years. It asked him to accept it as his spirit guide. It said if he didn't it would kill his kids one by one. Dad gathered us all together to inform us what had transpired and wanted to know if he should accept this spirit. We told him that he should reject it, and he did. When my brother was murdered in 1978, Dad accepted this spirit guide for fear it would kill the rest of us. This spirit appeared as a rattlesnake, and through occultic dreams, Dad saw its image as follows: Its head stuck out of the earth on the left side while its body wove through the earth to the bottom, then in and out of the earth again, with its tail finally sticking out on the right side--- a perfect picture of 'the god of this world." The god of this world was making his own altar calls." (Nanci Des Gerlaise, Muddy Waters)
From the Lighthouse BlogSynopsis of Muddy Waters: an insider’s view of North American Native Spirituality
 

DennisTate

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What do you think of the near death experience of Dr. George Ritchie. Is his account of what goes on in spiritual realms in line with scripture?

.near-death.com/ritchie.html



b. His Guided Tour of the Earthbound Realm with Jesus

Then Jesus begins to take Ritchie on a journey through various realms of the afterlife. They fly toward a large city on Earth where they notice a group of assembly-line workers at work. They witnesses the spirit of a woman trying desperately to grab a cigarette from the workers who were oblivious to her presence. This woman had died severely addicted to cigarettes and was now cut off from the one thing she desperately desired most.

Ritchie realizes how the spirits in these realms immediately know the thoughts of other spirits around them. This is the reason they tend to group together with other spirits. It is too threatening to be around others who knew and disagreed with their thoughts.

Jesus leads Ritchie to a house somewhere on Earth where he is shown the spirit of a young man following his living family members around and begging them for forgiveness. But the family members are completely unaware of his presence. Jesus tells Ritchie the young man committed suicide and is "chained to every consequence of his act."

They then traveled to a bar somewhere on Earth which was filled with sailors drinking heavily. Spirits surrounded the sailors as they tried desperately, and in vain, to grasp the shot glasses to get a drink. Other spirits tried to control the sailors' alcoholic behavior. Ritchie learns these are the spirits of people who died still having a severe alcoholic addiction which went beyond the physical. He is bewildered as he observes one of the sailors passing out causing the sailor's protective aura surrounding him to crack open. When it does, it allows a spirit to scramble into the sailor's unconscious body. This scene was repeated over and over.

c. His Experience of the "Receiving Station"

Jesus then takes Ritchie to another realm and is shown a kind of "receiving station" where spirits would arrive in a deep hypnotic sleep because of a particular religious belief they held to be true. Here there were "angels" trying to arouse them and help them realize, "God is truly a God of the living and that they did not have to lie around sleeping until Gabriel or someone came along blowing on a horn." These are the spirits of people who believe they must sleep in their grave until the second coming of Christ (i.e., soul sleep.)

d. His Description of the Horrors of Hell

They were still somewhere on the surface of the Earth; but no living person or beings of light could be seen. Before them was a plain jammed with hordes of spirits who are the most miserable and angriest beings he has ever seen. Many were engaged in hand-to-hand combat with no weapons - trying in vain to hurt and kill those who didn't agree with them. A lot of verbal abuse could be heard between them as their thoughts could be heard by everyone around them the moment they are thought. Ritchie is horrified as he wonders what living in such a realm would be like - a place where you cannot hide from who you really are. These spirits were locked into destructive thought-patterns, rage and uncontrollable lust. Some were trying in vain to get sexual gratification from each other. The wailing coming from the hordes of unsatisfied spirits was tremendous. Other spirits were in despair saying things such as, "I always knew!" and "Didn't I warn you!" Ritchie realizes this place is truly hell. Their obsessive thoughts and emotions extended beyond the physical realm and into the spiritual realm where they cannot be satisfied. Yet there was nothing preventing any of the poor spirits in these realms from leaving. There was no condemnation coming from Jesus either - only compassion for these miserable spirits. Ritchie realizes Jesus hadn't abandoned any of them here. Instead they fled from the light to escape from having the darkness of their heart from being revealed.

e. His Observations of the Temple of Wisdom

They then travel to a completely different realm where some kind of enormous university is located. Spirits dressed as monks busily and happily engaged in some form of artistic behavior or research. An enormous library exists here where all the important books of the universe are assembled. Ritchie asks Jesus if this is heaven. These are the spirits of people who grew beyond selfish desires while on Earth; but, like the spirits in hell, these spirits cannot see Jesus either.

f. His Vision of the Heavenly City

Ritchie is then taken into outer space toward a distant city made of brilliant light - similar in description to the heavenly city in the Book of Revelation (see also Revelation 21:10-27.) This is the place where people go who have become like Jesus while on Earth - a place where love is the dominant focus of life. This is heaven he realizes; but he is not allowed to enter it. Instead, Jesus shows him the future of Earth and is told to return to his physical body. At this point, Ritchie is revived from death.
 
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The whole problem of evil has to boil down to a source. If no cantankerous spirits, then what? One devil? It would be just as easy, or more logical, to believe there are many prodding spirits, than one -- or none at all.

Humans are prone to self-centered living, but many of the destructive actions are not tied in with normal human motivation, or even mental illness.

In Richie's NDE report, he speaks of these spirits as being deceased human spirits. Generally Christian teaching has kept to the fire prepared for the devil and his host of fallen angels-- where angels and humans have different characteristics, capabilities, and relation to God. We are children. They are messengers. (But then the original word is messenger.)

The report is touching, and has some consistency with the way God is compassionate and still allows us to walk in our own choices.

It seems viable that in the report, some people could not see Jesus or see their way out of their misery. Sad too! There are things we get stubborn about here, wanting sympathy or validation or revenge, and stay stuck in.

Personally I don't believe that a spirit has permission to scramble into an unconscious body, but I have watched evidence of that sort of thing happen in a semi-conscious drunk rant -- the person saying things they never would have agreed with in normal state.

I think we open the door by consciously giving in to resentment, self-pity, spite, etc. Not fresh anger or simple drinking, but that later step of clinging to it. Refusing to see Jesus in the situation, and resisting taking our way out.
 
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dayhiker

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I believe what the Bible says about the spirit world. But in the grand scheme of things what the Bible says is not much. After all the spirit world is not the theme but a sub theme in the Bible. So to me the Bible gives us a few small glimpses into the spirit world. So I'm pretty sure when we get into the spirit world we will have a whole lot to learn.

I believe that the NDE are real. I've learned a lot from reading this body of writing. Its not clear to me that all these stories are to to be taken literally. Nor is it clear to me that they are all trying to give us one message. I do find the themes of love, supreme being, others good and bad speak to me the same what the Bible speaks to me. I'm also convinced that God is a loving God to everyone whether they are alive on earth on in the spirit world. Hoe God plans to work all these things out for good, I don't know. But I really like what God is doing for me day in and day out.
 
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Kings servant

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To me. If there are things that go bump in the night then they are not the spirits of the dead, they are the fallen angels ( ghosts ) who appear to us in the form of a human but in reality they are demons. The bible says to be absent from the body is to be Present with the Lord. If that's true then there should be no spirits of mom and dad wondering around the living. It also speaks of the dead as being asleep as well as the dead in Christ arising fist at the time of His return. If the dead are asleep and awaiting the return or our King they they as well should not be wondering around the living.

To go a little in left field. When I was a child, I saw a demon and it was not just me. Both my mom and dad saw the same thing and it was something that I don't want to see again. My dad also had something to get into a chicken coop and kill every single chicken. Thing about it is that it ripped a very large, locked by a very large padlock, door completely off its hinges and it left no footprints nor did it remove any of the chickens from the coop. It just killed them and left the remains for all to see. It had to be a demon, it left no foot prints either in the soft dirt floor or the muddy walk way leading up to the door....but it did leave some very large and very deep claw marks in the wood!

Regardless. The only ghost I want around me is the Holy Ghost and He is always welcomed in my house!
 
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DennisTate

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I believe what the Bible says about the spirit world. But in the grand scheme of things what the Bible says is not much. After all the spirit world is not the theme but a sub theme in the Bible. So to me the Bible gives us a few small glimpses into the spirit world. So I'm pretty sure when we get into the spirit world we will have a whole lot to learn.

I believe that the NDE are real. I've learned a lot from reading this body of writing. Its not clear to me that all these stories are to to be taken literally. Nor is it clear to me that they are all trying to give us one message. I do find the themes of love, supreme being, others good and bad speak to me the same what the Bible speaks to me. I'm also convinced that God is a loving God to everyone whether they are alive on earth on in the spirit world. Hoe God plans to work all these things out for good, I don't know. But I really like what God is doing for me day in and day out.

Thank you immensely dayhiker.... You have came to conclusions very similar to my own!
 
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there were 2 rebellions in heaven
1st by lucifer n his followers
2nd by angels who fornicated mankind that woman delivered giant babies.
these 2nd groups r chained in darkness for judgment of end time.

Jude 1 : 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jesus bless
 
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DennisTate

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there were 2 rebellions in heaven
1st by lucifer n his followers
2nd by angels who fornicated mankind that woman delivered giant babies.
these 2nd groups r chained in darkness for judgment of end time.

Jude 1 : 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jesus bless


I completely agree with your idea of TWO major revolts in heaven!!!!!!!!!
 
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DennisTate

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I do believe there are fallen angels, devil and spiritual powers. I don't believe in ghost on the other hand. When you die, your body and spirit rest until the coming of Christ.

That is what I used to believe until 1990 when I started reading NDE accounts and found that they fit amazingly well with so many scriptures???????!!!!
 
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5fish5chips

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That is what I used to believe until 1990 when I started reading NDE accounts and found that they fit amazingly well with so many scriptures???????!!!!

Give me an example.. allot of them contradict the bible, like how they see people who have died in hell etc.
 
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DennisTate

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I believe in the devil and demons and fallen spirits but I do not believe in ghosts. I believe that ghosts are just demons masquerading as the dead in order to deceive people into believing that there is a wacked out afterlife.

That is what I believed also until 1990 when I began studying near death experience accounts.

The NDE's of Christians are especially powerful and convincing!


Bob Jones’ Testimony August 8, 1975 Death Experience 




So I looked at that line. It was so horrible and everyone when they came there, they recognized Him. Their eyes got big, and everyone that is going to hell has had a witness in one way or another that there is a God. And everyone of them willingly denied Him. For each 2 in the line that I was in, there was 98 in the other line.

I watched the Lord speak to people that were coming there. And He asked them only one question: “Did you learn to love?” He’s not going to ask you what you did. If you learn to love you are going to do that which is right. Did you learn to love? (3) He would ask them that question and they would say, Yes Lord and He would kiss them right on the lips and embrace them and the double doors of His heart would open and they would go right on in.

Some of them had a lot of angels with them and they would go on in. The angels went in because they had testimonies, they helped people do things on the earth. They have no testimony until they help you do something. You are the ones that will judge angels by their rewards for what they helped you do. (4) They are more willing to help you do something, than you are willing to submit and let them help you do it.

As I came close to the Lord, I was thinking, “I learned to love. I’m OK, I’m going home.” As I did, He held His hand up to me and said, “No I want you to go back.” I told Him, “It was too hard to get here. I don’t want to because I wasn’t doing any good there.” He said, “You are a liar, because you spoke My Words and My Words will always bring it to pass.” I said, “Well nobody was believing it and it was painful.” He said, “Yes, and you have a cowardly nature too. [Up there, it’s the truth.] (5) But you love. You had a heart for souls. I want you to go back. If you look at that line over there and then tell me you want to come in, I will bring you in.”

I looked at that line and looked at their faces and said I would go back for one. I would go back and spend a day on a cross for one. He said, “I’m not sending you back for that. I’m sending you back to wake up the church because I am going to bring a billion youth to Myself. In one of the greatest waves of all times. I’m going to honor Myself beyond anything that man can imagine. I want you to go back and touch the church and speak to the church of what I am going to do in these last days.” So I told Him I would come back.

I came back. I thought that when I come back into my body I would be healed. As I came back I saw 2 of the biggest angels I have ever seen. I know who they are. They are the resurrection angels. (6) And I saw the death spirit and he left when I came back in. And when I went back into the body I wasn’t healed. The pain was there and I couldn’t understand why. And I was gone probably for about 3 hours. The pain was there and I said, “What’s going on Lord?” And then I heard a phone ring. And I saw people answering the phone and they were saying, “Bob Jones needs prayer.” And they would start praying and I felt better. And it was a Friday." (Bob Jones)
 
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DennisTate

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Give me an example.. allot of them contradict the bible, like how they see people who have died in hell etc.

This also troubles me as well.

At this time one of the best answers I can give to this is perhaps that people perceive their "life review" as being in hell??????!!!!

Pastor Rick Joyner met an old friend in a vision of heaven who took his life review really hard!!!!???



Rick Joyner meets old friend in heaven who had been very shy on earth!
Rick Joyner: "I then noticed someone I had known on earth. He had been a faithful believer, but I did not think he had done anything of significance. He was so physically unattractive on earth that it had made him shy. Here he had the same features, but was somehow more handsome than any person I had known on earth. He stepped up to me with an assurance and dignity that I had never seen in him, or anyone, before.


"Heaven is much greater than we could have dreamed while on earth," he began. "This room is but the threshold of realms of glory that are far beyond the ability we had to comprehend. It is also true that the second death is much more terrible than we understood. Neither heaven or hell are like we thought they were. If I had known on earth what I know here I would not have lived the way that I did. You are blessed with a great grace to have come here before you have died." he said while looking at my garments.

I then looked at myself. I still had the old mantle of humility on, with the armor under it. I felt both foul and crude standing before those who were so regal and beautiful. I began to think that I was in serious trouble if I was going to appear before the Lord like this. Like the eagles, my old acquaintance could understand my thoughts, and he replied to them:


"Those who come here wearing that mantle have nothing to fear. That mantle is the highest rank of honor, and it is why they all bowed to you while you passed."


"I did not notice anyone bowing to me," I replied, a bit disconcerted.


"It is not improper," he continued. "Here we show each other the respect that is due. Even the angles serve us here, but only our God and His Christ are worshiped."


I was still ashamed. I had to retrain myself to keep from bowing to these glorious ones, while at the same time wanting to hide myself because I looked so bad. Then I began lamenting the fact that my thoughts here were just as foolish here as they were one earth, and here everyone knew them! I felt both stained and stupid standing before these who were so awesome and pure. Again my old acquaintance responded to these thoughts.


"We have our incorruptible bodies now, and you do not. Our minds are no longer hindered by sin. We are therefore able to comprehend many times what even the greatest earthly mind can fathom, and we will spend eternity growing in our ability to understand. This is so that we can know the Father, and understand the glory of His creation. On earth you cannot even begin to understand what the least of these here know, and we are the least of those here."


"How could you be the least?" I asked with disbelief.


"There is an aristocracy here. The rewards for our earthly lives are the eternal positions that we have here. This great multitude here are those whom the Lord called 'foolish virgins.' We knew the Lord, and trusted in His cross for deliverance from damnation, but we did not really live for Him, but for ourselves. We did not keep our vessels filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit. We have eternal life, but we wasted our lives on earth."


I was really surprised by this, but I also knew that no one could lie in that place.


"The foolish virgins gnashed their teeth in the outer darkness," I protested.


"And that we did. The grief that we experienced when we understood how we had so wasted our lives was beyond any grief possible on earth. The darkness of that grief can only be understood by those who have experienced it. Such darkness is magnified when it is revealed next to the glory of the One we failed. You are standing now among the lowest rank in heaven. There is no greater fools than the ones who know the great salvation of God, but then go on living for themselves. To come here and learn the reality of that folly is a grief beyond what an earthly soul can experience. We are those who suffered this outer darkness because of this greatest of follies."


I was still incredulous. "But you are more glorious and full of more joy and peace than I even imagined, even for those in heaven. I do not feel any remorse in you, and yet I know that here you cannot lie. This does not make sense to me."


Looking me straight in the eyes, he continued, "The Lord also loves us with a love greater than you can yet understand. Before His judgment seat I tasted the greatest darkness of soul and remorse that can be experienced. Though here we do not measure time as you do, it seemed to last for as long as my life on earth had lasted. All of my sins and follies which I had not repented of passed before me, and before all who are here. The grief of this you cannot understand until you have experienced it. I felt that I was in the deepest dungeon of hell, even as I stood before the Lord. He was resolute until my life had been completely reviewed. When I said I was sorry and asked for the mercy of His cross, He wiped away my tears and took away the great darkness. He looked at me with a love that was beyond anything that you can now understand. He gave me this robe. I no longer feel the darkness or bitterness that I knew as I stood before Him, but I remember it. Only here can you remember such things without continuing to feel the pain. A moment in the lowest part of heaven is much greater than a thousand years of the highest life on earth. Now my mourning at my folly has been turned into joy, and I know that I will know joy forever, even if I am in the lowest place in heaven."


I began to think again of the treasures of salvation. Somehow I knew that all that this man had told me was revealed by those treasures. Every step I had taken up the mountain, or into it, had revealed that His ways are both more fearful and more wonderful than I had known before.


Looking at me intently, my former acquaintance continued. "You are not here to understand, but to experience. The next level of rank here is many times greater than what we have. Each level after is that much greater than the previous one. It is not just that each level has an even more glorious spiritual body, but that each level is closer to the throne where all of the glory comes from. Even so, I no longer feel the grief of my failure. I really deserve nothing. I am here by grace alone, and I am so thankful for what I have. He is so worthy to be loved. I could be doing many wondrous things now in the different realms of heaven, but I would rather stay here and just behold the glory, even if I am on the outer fringes."


Then, with a distant look in his eyes, he added, "Everyone in heaven is now in this room to watch His great mystery unfold, and to watch those of you who will fight the last battle."


"Can you see Him from here?" I asked. "I see His glory far away, but I cannot see Him."


"I can see many times better than you can," he answered. "And yes, I can see Him, and all that He is doing, even from here. I can also hear Him. I can also behold the earth. He gave us all that power. We are the great cloud of witnesses who are beholding you."


He departed back into the ranks and I began walking again, trying to understand all that he had said to me. As I looked over the great host that he had said were the foolish virgins, the ones who had spiritually slept away their life on earth, I knew that if any one of them appeared on earth now that they would be worshiped as gods, and yet they were the very least of those who were here!


I then began to think of all of the time that I had wasted in my life. It was such an overwhelming thought that I stopped. Then parts of my life began to pass before me. I began to experience a terrible grief over this one sin. I too had been one of the greatest of fools! I may have kept more oil in my lamp than others, but now I knew how foolish I had been to measure what was required of me by how others were doing. I, too, was one of the foolish virgins!" (Pastor Rick Joyner, The Final Quest)

http://www.heaven.net.nz/visions/the-hordes-of-hell-are-marching.htm
 
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iambren

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The gospels speak of fallen angels as demons in Jesus' ministry so YES they do exist. I agree with the earlier poster that it's a rather small theme in the Word so we should not be conjuring spirits up....sells well in HollyWood though.

We just don't know what's going on. To me it's like we live in a 2D picture in this life yet sometimes a third dimensional plane slices through and we can't see where it came from.

I'm in healthcare and have had a few NDE patients that describe experiences rather identically. Neat stuff. If you would like to read of a mind vs brain split that is like NDE I would recommend a chapter in THE SCALPEL AND THE SOUL by a neurologist. Loved the book but especially liked this chapter on a surgical case.
 
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DennisTate

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It's huge in the gospels.

True!!!!!!!

And former atheist Howard Storm sure saw lots of what could be termed fallen angels/demons during the first part of his near death experience that resulted in his studying to become a pastor!!!!!!!!
 
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I believe in the glorious destruction of such. I yearn for it.

I may be way off with this theory... but the mention of the fallen angel "Azazel" in Leviticus 16:10 has caused me to wonder if some sort of modern Yom Kippur event...... extends salvation.... even into the realms of the fallen angels????!!!!

I assume that the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation.... or the "restoration of all things" to be done by the final Elijah.... could fit into this?????!!!!


http://www.christianforums.com/t7673933/

Christian Rapture and fulfillment of Yom Kippur event?!?!
Ok, I admit that I may be thoroughly in error on this theory but over the past couple of years I have began to wonder if perhaps the Christian Rapture event in many ways is the fulfillment of the Jewish Fast of Yom Kippur?!?!

I personally did not really understand how the verses regarding the rapture were different from the ones regarding the Second Coming but after reading the near death experience of Dr. Richard Eby my level of respect for the rapture doctrine has taken a surge!!!!!

Dr. Richard Eby

He paused as though the joy of that thought had overwhelmed him for the moment.

"My Father assures me that the time is yet a little while, but very little. Soon he will call those already in paradise to surround me as we descend from this third heaven to the first heaven around the Earth. The souls of all my saints will be instantly clothed in their new resurrection bodies, as will the living saints on Earth who rise to us in the glory cloud! At the sounding trumpet they all receive new bodies and rise to meet us in the air. We return as my body to my throne room with the Father. Now do you understand why I called this place a temporary abiding place? Do you grasp what it will mean to be one with me and the Father in your incorruptible bodies? My book states that I assumed mankind's sin so you "might be made the righteousness of God' in me!"

I can clearly recall how Jesus' voice paused at this moment. He was savoring an anticipation too intense and private to be revealed. Was he pre-living that moment at which he would enjoy the victory which his Father would give him as the eternal reward for his own long-suffering? His own sting of death would be swallowed up, and he would be the omniscient Head of a completed and compliant body for whom he had shed his blood on a terrible cross. He would reign as KING of the Jews after these days of grace. Then his thoughts returned to me.

"My son, when that time has come, my Father will call to me. The applause of the heavenly hosts will be deafening; they too have been awaiting that day, ever since they announced my birth to the shepherds at Bethlehem so long ago. Scoffers will gaze with fear and wonder as my angelic hosts watch me fulfill my promise to my earthly body of believers at my soon return to Earth.

"My book records the many signs which will precede my coming for my family. I tried to explain those events to my disciples, very carefully. I promised them that I was leaving my Holy Spirit as a comforter to instruct them as they studied my word, and to tell them of the things to come. I want my children to be informed about our plans in advance. I want them to be filled with my joy. After all, they are mine: I created them and bought them back from satanic slavery. I told them that I would come for them so that we could be together forever. My Father wants them all to believe Me."
 
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