Do the poor (in America) just need to get a job?

[Glaz]

Or if they already have a job, get a better paying one? Is poverty really that simple? Can we eleminate poverty in this country by just having the poor make better resumes and have a marketable skill or two? To me, it doesn't seem that simple, while I am a conservative Republican I grew up in a family where money was very tight so I feel sympathetic to those in similiar siutations or who are even worse off. I ask this because I overheard a discussion about this today at school (I am working on a computer science degree) and the consensus seemed to be 'they just need to get a better job'. It seemed a narrow minded point of view to me, and it also seemed like it might make a good topic for this forum. I'm interested in hearing your points of view on this. Thanks.

 

[MachZer0]

Or if they already have a job, get a better paying one? Is poverty really that simple? Can we eleminate poverty in this country by just having the poor make better resumes and have a marketable skill or two? To me, it doesn't seem that simple, while I am a conservative Republican I grew up in a family where money was very tight so I feel sympathetic to those in similiar siutations or who are even worse off. I ask this because I overheard a discussion about this today at school (I am working on a computer science degree) and the consensus seemed to be 'they just need to get a better job'. It seemed a narrow minded point of view to me, and it also seemed like it might make a good topic for this forum. I'm interested in hearing your points of view on this. Thanks.

There's a simple formula for getting out of poverty.

Avoiding long-term poverty is not rocket science. First, graduate from high school. Second, get married before you have children, and stay married. Third, work at any kind of job, even one that starts out paying the minimum wage. And, finally, avoid engaging in criminal behavior. If you graduate from high school today with a B or C average, in most places in our country there's a low-cost or financially assisted post-high-school education program available to increase your skills

 

[FadingWhispers3]

Or if they already have a job, get a better paying one?

Jobs and charity are only short term bandages for massive bleeding. That doesn't mean we should neglect them altogether, but it does mean we need to do more than provide opportunities for jobs or teach better technical skills.

Can we eleminate poverty in this country by just having the poor make better resumes and have a marketable skill or two?

That alone is not enough. Sometimes poverty is as much psychological as it is physical. A defeatist attitude and a culture of impossibility will create poverty even with marketable skills.

Secondly, marketable skills are little without the ability to market them. There is a lot of talk about the failings of the education system, but perhaps the biggest is that important subjects are not being taught. How money works being one of them.

Thirdly, there must be cultivation of certain thought! There are certain ways of thinking that lead to poverty even if all else is good and there are certain ways of thinking that will better the chances for success even if a person seems to have nothing. Would a poor person ever think, "How can I use such and such opportunity to create jobs?" or "How can I buy a business"? The boldness of such thinking would probably astonish some. What matters is not so much as the details of how to, but the desire to know. If a poor person is passionate about creating a business, he's far better than many.

Finally, and the hardest to teach, poverty or the lack sometimes has to do with character. One of the most important being self-discipline. The ability to say "No" to things that are harmful or beyond a person's present means.

P.S. A good (benevolent and wise) community helps, since not everyone's a self-sufficient genius.

the consensus seemed to be 'they just need to get a better job'. It seemed a narrow minded point of view to me

That's not merely narrow minded, it's absurd.

 

[Vylo]

Tthere is no simple formula or quick fix to getting or staying out of poverty. Often people find themselves in situations that are much more complicated then a lack of monetary funds. And it is always easy to say what one should have done, but harder to say what they should do now after they have fallen on hard times. Even if you walk the straight and narrow and try to avoid all the pitfalls, face it, fate has it in for some of us.

The biggest factor is to realize 2 things:

1. There are obstacles that will hinder your success.

2. There are no obstacles that will stop your chances at success all together.

With this, you have no delusions. There may be barriers for you that aren't there for other people, and it might not be fair, but any barrier can eventually be overcome. Don't resign yourself to failure, just release you have weaknesses. Don't be ashamed that you can't go it alone, or that it may require you to redouble your efforts.

People who are poor do not deserve to be kicked to the curb, nor do they need handouts which will deepen resignation and dependency. They need help getting back on their own 2 feet again, and simply saying "get a job" isn't helpful at all.

I did some adult tutoring at a soup kitchen. The frustration of people trying to get educated for jobs (or better jobs) often got to them. I simply kept at them with my mantra "You can do this, it's just going to be hard, keep at it". I saw quite a few people come out of their better off. They got jobs, they got promotions, and because a handful of people stopped telling them to "get a job". and instead showed them how.

 

[Whyzdom]

.....

The biggest factor is to realize 2 things:

1. There are obstacles that will hinder your success.

2. There are no obstacles that will stop your chances at success all together.

With this, you have no delusions....

Well said and reps.

 

[Voegelin]

Anyone can make money in America. Don't need any skills. Lots of money to be made working for yourself (as immigrants often do).

The trouble is FICA. It is regressive and keeps people down.

By design.

Few who have not filed a quarterly have any idea what I'm taking about.

 

[[serious]]

Nothing is that simple of course. Poverty depends on people having skills, jobs being available, and an institution to bring the two together in an equitable fashion.

Many people will focus on one part of the equation and forget about the rest.

 

[Whyzdom]

Nothing is that simple of course. Poverty depends on people having skills, jobs being available, and an institution to bring the two together in an equitable fashion.

Many people will focus on one part of the equation and forget about the rest.

So if we deport all illegal aliens, free'ing up those jobs, we can have that many more people working, thereby reducing our unemployment rate even more! Sounds good to me.

 

[xMinionX]

Some of them. My sister-in-law is married to a carpenter who could probably do pretty well for himself if he'd hire on with one of the more reputable contractors in the area (there are several). Instead, he insists on working for smalltime, unreliable bosses who either only hire by the job or lay him off at the end of every season. And he insists that his wife (with three kids, mind you) cannot work, because "Poughkeepsie is dangerous" . Result? 60% of their bills get paid by my mother/father-in-law, who don't have the heart to let the kids suffer because the adults are deadbeats.

Their problems would probably disappear in weeks if he would hire on with someone bigger and if she got a night job for when he came home. But nooo...

(sorry if this is a whine post, my wife just got guilt tripped into buying new shoes for her nephew and I'm a little ticked)

 

[kermit]

A woman at the soup kitchen which my wife volunteer at recently had yet another obstacle. Her story starts with her husband leaving her pennyless with two kids. Through the hard-work and the help of some state programs and the charity of others she managed to earn her LPN. She came on one day not to collect food but to say that she had a job at the hospital and to thank everyone; a rare and welcome success story for us. A few months ago she was back. Her apartment building had a fire and the landlord evicted everyone so that he could get the cleanup crews in. She didn't have money for groceries because she had to try to save enough for a security deposit for another apartment and she didn't think she'd be able to save enough in time. My mother-in-law spoke to our pastor about this woman's situation. He has a discressionary fund which he can use for missionary or charity work. He gave the woman the money for her security deposit.

My point is that some people just seem to be dealt a bad hand in life. Sometimes they just need a helping hand to get through the rough times.

 

[kermit]

xMinionX[/SIZE]]Some of them. My sister-in-law is married to a carpenter who could probably do pretty well for himself if he'd hire on with one of the more reputable contractors in the area (there are several). Instead, he insists on working for smalltime, unreliable bosses who either only hire by the job or lay him off at the end of every season. And he insists that his wife (with three kids, mind you) cannot work, because "Poughkeepsie is dangerous" . Result? 60% of their bills get paid by my mother/father-in-law, who don't have the heart to let the kids suffer because the adults are deadbeats.

Their problems would probably disappear in weeks if he would hire on with someone bigger and if she got a night job for when he came home. But nooo...

(sorry if this is a whine post, my wife just got guilt tripped into buying new shoes for her nephew and I'm a little ticked)

Every family has one.

 

[mwb]

I've noticed that many fields are difficult to enter these days without a college degree and/or certifications.

Back in the day, someone could graduate from high school or college & become an accountant or stockbroker for example. Now you need an MBA & a license to get a good paying job at both.

It's not good news for someone who wants to or needs to change careers in their 30s or 40s. Plus even when a person is in high school or college, they really need to know what they want to do with their lives so they can get all the education they need & all the certifications they need.

It's even worse for the poor. Good luck trying to change careers. All you need is $50,000 for a cheap college & at least five years & this is going to school full-time. The days where people can jump in & out of good jobs are gone.

 

[Voegelin]

I've noticed that many fields are difficult to enter these days without a college degree and/or certifications.

We've created a guild system. It was done for all the classic reasons: employers find it an easy way to winnow down the pool of workers, those with degrees find it an easy way to raise salaries, stop innovation and prevent competition. Teaching degrees are probably the most egregious examples of this but there are many, many more.

 

[billwald]

40 years ago 90% of the "mental" hospital beds were eliminated and the people dumped in the streets in the theory they would get community help. Most of the "real" poor "street" people are unemployable and should be institutionalized.

Several million illegal aliens are finding jobs and sending money back to their families. If they can do it then so can any healthy citizen.

 

[Voegelin]

Several million illegal aliens are finding jobs and sending money back to their families. If they can do it then so can any healthy citizen.

Good points all around. I've sold to and competed with immigrants. Some I assume were illegal. Very impressive work ethic. Very focused. I learned a lot about advancing my station in life from people who had less education than I do and who did not speak much English.

 

[Vylo]

We've created a guild system. It was done for all the classic reasons: employers find it an easy way to winnow down the pool of workers, those with degrees find it an easy way to raise salaries, stop innovation and prevent competition. Teaching degrees are probably the most egregious examples of this but there are many, many more.

Tell me you aren't serious. You want teachers to have no degree or certificate?

My state has some of the harshest requirements for teachers. We are also one of the top 4 states in education.

And there is still competition. Every worker in my father's level and field has a degree but him it seems. But he runs circles around them, and it only takes a single interview for employers to notice this. Employers actually come to him on a regular basis trying to recruit him. Think about that. A GED highschool dropout, and hes got people coming to him offering jobs that most of us here could only dream about. So if you think there is no competition, and that hard work doesn't pay off, you are sadly mistaken. I've got living proof in my family tree.

 

[marshlewis]

Do the poor (in America) just need to get a job?

I seems to me that the poor just have to get another job to go with the first.

 

[Law of Loud]

Do the poor (in America) just need to get a job?

I seems to me that the poor just have to get another job to go with the first.

Really, I'd say with the third.

 

[xMinionX]

Tell me you aren't serious. You want teachers to have no degree or certificate?

My state has some of the harshest requirements for teachers. We are also one of the top 4 states in education.

Don't bother. He's in the 'teaching doesn't require skill, anyone can do it, people only do it because they can't do anything else' camp of ignorance. Probably thinks teachers stop working when the kids leave too. Teachers have been putting up with that ignorant bologna for years, it's nothing new.

 

[trunks2k]

I don't think it's simple as just "get a job" or "get another job". We like to oversimplify things and ignore that for a lot of people just getting a job or second/new job isn't that easy. You may need a higher education to get a better paying job, but if you are working say, two full time jobs or something to support your family, getting more education is not the most realistic thing in the world; both in terms of time and money.

And when you consider the homeless, many of them have severe mental problems and cannot "just get a job".