Do people not like Pope Francis?

[BluhdoftheLamb]

I like that he is breaking out of the set norms. I think his openness & genuine willingness to mingle & serve is long overdue. Of course older or more traditional people tend to be attached to what they are used to. But I don't think seclusion except when meeting world leaders, throne & tiaras impress the majority of us much.

He truly seems to want to bring light & life into the Church & bring the Gospel alive to the people. So far he has been nothing but inspiring. And I truly believe the Holy Spirit led the cardinals to elect him because this is what is needed in the RCC right now.

I have never been one to find any Pope likable - but this guy I LOVE. He could use his influence to do much good

 

[mark46]

Yup, a breath of fresh air isn't welcomed by all.

With regard to the Orthodox, I would suspect that they would be even more positive if the Holy Father resumes using his rightful title of Patriarch the West.

Über-traditionalists, like those on Fisheaters, can't stand him. They seem to think he is demeaning the office of Pope and continuing all the bad things (in their opinion) of John Paul II and John XVIII.

Personally, as a theologically conservative, liturgically moderate, social justice-minded Catholic, I'm very pleased with Pope Francis so far. All I can really say to him is "Keep up the good work!"

How are the Orthodox greeting his Papacy?

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

So by your logic the entire Vatican is stupid, uneducated, don't care about the faithful. Nice.

...and secretive, isolated, unduly concerned with its image and, in many cases due to it's uncoordinated nature, ineffective.

Yeah, I stand by it.

 

[KatherineS]

Many of us have been prayer for a more pastoral church and I believe our prayers ahve been answered.

 

[S.ilvio]

theologically conservative, liturgically moderate, social justice-minded Catholic

Do you have Copyright on that or may I use it to reflect my own belief system...?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I like Pope Francis very much.

Seeing traditionalist getting upset over him, is entertainment in itself.

Jim

 

[Tallguy88]

Do you have Copyright on that or may I use it to reflect my own belief system...?

Go ahead, I left it in the public domain.

 

[S.ilvio]

Go ahead, I left it in the public domain.

Sweet...!

 

[QuantaCura]

I was very surprised to find today that my Catholic mother and grandmother are both very unhappy with Pope Francis, who they say is destroying the role of the Pope by calling himself "this Bishop of Rome" instead of "Pope" and for washing the feet of prison inmates instead of priests.

I really didn't know what to make of it. Everyone I know who isn't Catholic (including myself) think that PF is the bomb. Are people freaking out over this?

What would be your opinion of your bishop or Patriarch if he eschewed traditional vesture and titles and innovated with the liturgy (it wasn't the prison inmates which was problematic, but the two women)? Would they even dare to do so? If not, why not? Also, isn't this some of the kind of stuff that drove you to Orthodoxy in the first place?

Anyway, I think most Catholics love him because we love every Pope like we love a father. A new papacy is always a joyous time, as it is one sign of the continuation of the Church of Christ. I think being able to appreciate the good intentions behind some of the more controversial actions is also key to this attitude.

That being said, his eschewing of these traditions also have dissidents in a joyous frenzy and some of the more traditional-minded in a state of uneasiness because it makes them think he will eschew those that are more fundamental.

Personally, I don't think that will be the case and I do think taking his role as bishop of the diocese of Rome seriously and being out amongst the Romans is great.

As far as his choices with regards to living quarters and chairs and vesture which have also upset some people, it undoubtedly comes from a sincere desire to be ascetic, but as St. Bernard advised against to his fellow Cistercian Bl. Eugene III in De Consideratione (the "handbook of the Popes"), immediately and unilaterally changing things like this "will be like a person who abandons the footsteps of his ancestors, and will be seen as an affront to them. You will be censured with the common saying, 'Everyone wonders about a person who behaves differently.' It will seem that you only want attention." It's therefore not surpising that he has upset some well-meaning devout folks. Of course, as I mentioned before, the people who don't like his "ancestors" are ecstatic as a result.

Of course, in this day and age, it can be argued the Pope has to compete with a sensory overload in the world and needs to draw attention to himself to give the teachings of Christ their due place in the world. I think a lot of people feel the holier way is to take that described by St. Francis de Sales below*** (which is about food, but could be extended to lodgings, etc.), and I would agree in most cases, but in this day and age the Pope maybe should be more "conspicuous" with his good deeds and mortifications. But again, there's a reason even well-meaning and devout people like you mother and grandmother might be upset by it.
------

***St. Francis de Sales, Into. to the Devout Life: "It seems to me that we ought to have in great reverence that which our Saviour and Redeemer Jesus Christ said to His disciples, 'Eat such things as are set before you.' To my mind there is more virtue in eating whatever is offered you just as it comes, whether you like it or not, than in always choosing what is worst; for although the latter course may seem more ascetic, the former involves greater submission of will, because by it you give up not merely your taste, but your choice; and it is no slight austerity to hold up one's likings in one's hand, and subject them to all manner of accidents. Furthermore, this kind of mortification makes no show, inconveniences no one, and is admirably adapted to social life. To be always discarding one dish for another, examining everything, suspicious as to everything, making a fuss over every morsel--all this to my mind is contemptible, and implies too much thought of meats and platters."

 

[MKJ]

Making a change to a foot-washing ceremony is not quite the same as innovating with the liturgy, I would say. Not all ceremonies or even parts of services are meant to remain unchanged in the same way.

Certainly things like vestments, if they are dignified, do not always have to be of the same type or style. A very ornate or very plain set of vestments may both be traditional and dignified, and some things can appropriately be left to the decision of the person wearing or choosing the item.

Being too narrow is an error just as being to broad is.

 

[InnerPhyre]

What would be your opinion of your bishop or Patriarch if he eschewed traditional vesture and titles and innovated with the liturgy (it wasn't the prison inmates which was problematic, but the two women)? Would they even dare to do so? If not, why not? Also, isn't this some of the kind of stuff that drove you to Orthodoxy in the first place?

I think it depends. If a bishop was wearing vestments that have no place in tradition, certainly. If he was wearing vestments that were simply a part of an older, simpler tradition, then that’s a different matter. I didn’t see any issue with washing the feet of women, because that was a part of Holy Thursday at my Catholic parish growing up. The priest would wash the feet of men and women. The entire event spoke to me that Pope Francis was showing the humility of Christ and not just a ritual washing of the apostles. Still, that doesn’t seem to be a problem with the liturgy.

Things like there aren’t what started to push me away from Catholicism, but rather an indication that the Catholic Church wasn’t preserving the faith as well as other traditions, which lead me to begin looking elsewhere. I didn’t become Orthodox because of what the Catholic Church was not, however, but because of what the Orthodox Church was, if that makes any sense.

Anyway, I think most Catholics love him because we love every Pope like we love a father. A new papacy is always a joyous time, as it is one sign of the continuation of the Church of Christ. I think being able to appreciate the good intentions behind some of the more controversial actions is also key to this attitude.

That seems like a healthy attitude to me.

That being said, his eschewing of these traditions also have dissidents in a joyous frenzy and some of the more traditional-minded in a state of uneasiness because it makes them think he will eschew those that are more fundamental.

Indeed, I can see how they could think that. It’s a superficial understanding though, mostly from people who don’t take the time to find out what Pope Francis is all about.

Personally, I don't think that will be the case and I do think taking his role as bishop of the diocese of Rome seriously and being out amongst the Romans is great.

Agreed.



Overall, it seems to me that the Pope is trying to return to a point where the position of the Bishop of Rome was more humble. In a world that can no longer stomach monarchs and kings, the Pope acting like a king can produce negative feelings, even among well meaning people. I think he knows that people will respect humility more than pomp and circumstance and is giving an example for all of us that the greatest is truly the one who puts himself last and becomes the servant of all.

 

[Fantine]

Quanta Cura said:

Anyway, I think most Catholics love him because we love every Pope like we love a father.

I don't think that "love" comes because someone plays a certain role or holds a certain position.

I think that Pope Francis inspires "love" not because of his role as Pope but because of his authenticity and his compassion.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Anyway, I think most Catholics love him because we love every Pope like we love a father.

....um...

No we don't

 

[Sumwear]

They're intellectual, generally smart, well educated, tend to progressiveness and service and have an empathy for the faithful that is unusual in what I like to call the Corporate Church.

They're everything the Vatican isn't.

They're are, and as far as I can tell, always have been viewed with suspicion by their more "traditional" brethren.

what progressiveness do you speak of?

'Status quo' leader: Same-sex marriage, abortion unlikely under Pope Francis - World News

 

[Defensor Christi]

I can say that I truly love the man...I cannot wait to see what he does!

 

[Ave Maria]

Personally I think Pope Francis is awesome. He is obviously a very pious and humble man. I say these things as a very conservative Catholic who is somewhat of a traditionalist.

 

[Lepanto]

Lord Jesus taught us to judge a tree by its fruits. So please don't be optimistic so soon, let's wait and see the fruits... Personally I am not that optimistic unless God grants him extra graces.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Speaking as an outsider, I grew to greatly respect Pope Benedict XVI. It is my hope and prayer that I will come to respect Pope Francis as well.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

....um...

No we don't

Speak for yourself.

 

[Defensor Christi]

Lord Jesus taught us to judge a tree by its fruits. So please don't be optimistic so soon, let's wait and see the fruits... Personally I am not that optimistic unless God grants him extra graces.

That doesnt mean we should live in eternal pessimism either...