Do Christians and Communists Have the Same Goals, as Pope Francis Claims?

[Michie]

I apologize if my columns are making The Stream seem like an angry Catholic website. But with all the madness that has been hitting the world from this Vatican, I feel like a harried zookeeper trying to clean up the monkey enclosure during a really raucous poop fight.

The latest fragrant projectile to smack us from inside the bars: The news that Pope Francis considers Christians and Marxists to be natural allies, since we share the same goals and values. The pope this week received representatives of Marxist organizations and lauded their concern for social justice. Here’s a quote from the statement the groups presented him:

Beyond religious and ideological boundaries, Christians and Marxists, as well as people of good will recognise today that they are united in their commitment to the end of armed conflicts in the world and the security of the most basic human rights, in order to guarantee social equilibrium and peace for humanity.

Vatican News reported that Francis

shared with them his pain for a world that today appears ‘divided by wars and polarizations’ and, on the other hand, his encouragement to look to the future and try to imagine a ‘better world.’
‘We Argentinians say: don’t wrinkle, don’t go backwards. And this is the invitation I extend to you too: don’t back down, don’t give up, don’t stop dreaming of a better world.’

Pope Francis didn’t stop to croon John Lennon’s “Imagine.” He didn’t need to.




Marxist ‘Christians’ and Useful Idiots

Continued below.

Do Christians and Communists Have the Same Goals, as Pope Francis Claims? - The Stream

Pope Francis is praising Communists as sharing the same values and goals as Christians. He's out of his mind.

stream.org

 

[Michie]

‘Millennial Socialism’: 100 Years After Lenin’s Death, Communism Wages War on Souls

Book of Essays Sets the Record Straight on the War Between Christianity and ‘Demonic Puppet Masters’

www.ncregister.com

 

[Wolseley]

Christians have one God: the triune Deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Communists make a god out of the state.

So, no; Christians and communists do not have the same goals, as Pope Francis claims.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I apologize if my columns are making The Stream seem like an angry Catholic website. But with all the madness that has been hitting the world from this Vatican, I feel like a harried zookeeper trying to clean up the monkey enclosure during a really raucous poop fight.

The latest fragrant projectile to smack us from inside the bars: The news that Pope Francis considers Christians and Marxists to be natural allies, since we share the same goals and values. The pope this week received representatives of Marxist organizations and lauded their concern for social justice. Here’s a quote from the statement the groups presented him:


Vatican News reported that Francis


Pope Francis didn’t stop to croon John Lennon’s “Imagine.” He didn’t need to.




Marxist ‘Christians’ and Useful Idiots

Continued below.

Do Christians and Communists Have the Same Goals, as Pope Francis Claims? - The Stream

Pope Francis is praising Communists as sharing the same values and goals as Christians. He's out of his mind.

stream.org

To be honest, the Pope is a Jesuit, the inventors of liberation theology and the destroyer of Latin America.

He believes there's no incompatibility, and he means it I'm sure. Some of what he was personally involved with in his life should have given a clue here.

But I'm one of those evil reformed Baptists, aka calvinists, whom the Catholic Church declares anathema on...

So you know, only take me with a grain of salt but shouldn't you all have given more consideration to who you were making your Pope?

Sorry, felt like ranting.

You can't answer that anymore than I can blame you but we are unwittingly caught in the middle aren't we, both being American Christians. And being caught in the middle sucks.

 

[Wolseley]

To be honest, the Pope is a Jesuit, the inventors of liberation theology and the destroyer of Latin America.

Yes, "liberation theology" has been an unfortunate and malignant force ever since it came along; it seems to be nothing more than Che Guevara in a Roman collar.

But I'm one of those evil reformed Baptists, aka calvinists, whom the Catholic Church declares anathema on...

Nonsense. The Catholic Church has not declared anathema on you, or any other Protestant, in 500 years. Anathemas were issued to former Catholics who became Protestants (i.e., Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Henry VIII; that whole bunch), not Christians who were born Protestant and were never Catholics to begin with. In fact, the Cathechism of the Catholic Church says that any Protestant Christian who is sincerely trying to live as they believe God wants them to live, has just as much chance at gaining entrance to heaven as any other Christian does.

So you know, only take me with a grain of salt but shouldn't you all have given more consideration to who you were making your Pope?

Well, we really didn't get much say in the matter.....the Supreme Pontiff is chosen by the College of Cardinals, not by lay Catholics through popular elections. However, I will agree with you that Bergoglio was perhaps not the best choice out of whom they could have chosen.

Sorry, felt like ranting.

S'okay.

You can't answer that anymore than I can blame you but we are unwittingly caught in the middle aren't we, both being American Christians. And being caught in the middle sucks.

Personally, just betwixt you and me, my brother, I think we are all looking at the beginning of the Apocalypse, right square in the face. All the signs are there.....if you take the Scriptures describing it, and the predictions made by the Virgin Mary and various saints throughout history pertaining to it, and juxtapose them against what we're seeing in the news, the culture, the climate, the politics, the natural world, every day, it doesn't add up to a very pretty picture. But I'll tell you what I'll do: if you promise to pray for me to hold fast to the Faith while the world implodes, I will do the same for you.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Personally, just betwixt you and me, my brother, I think we are all looking at the beginning of the Apocalypse,

I'm your sister..

And I agree. The signs are there looking from any eschatological angle (I'm an Amillenial idealist - don't know if you have those on your side of the doctrinal pond)

I'll place you on my daily prayer list... We all need strength, prayer, and encouragement.

 

[Wolseley]

I'm your sister..

Ooopsie....sorry about that.

And I agree. The signs are there looking from any eschatological angle (I'm an Amillenial idealist - don't know if you have those on your side of the doctrinal pond)

We don't fret too much about the millennium much one way or the other....but we do have things like the passage I will quote below that are rather disconcerting, to say the least.

I'll place you on my daily prayer list... We all need strength, prayer, and encouragement.

Thank you.
______________________________________________________________________________________

THIRD AND LAST PROPHECY OF FATIMA

- BE AWARE.

(Sister Lucia)

"When the world asks for peace and security and repents of all the evil it has done, the sudden destruction of the new Armageddon has arrived and all will suffer."

These were the prophecies of the Virgin of Fatima when she appeared to the three children in 1917 and said that on this date 2025 would come to an end.

Lucia was only 10 years old when the apparitions took place, which began on May 13, 1917. Lucia and her two cousins saw the Virgin Mary in a holm oak tree for a period of six months.

Carmelite nun Lúcia do Imaculado Coração, the last survivor of the three children who made sure they saw the Virgin Mary in the Portuguese town of Fátima, died at the age of 97 on February 14, 2005. She died in the Carmel convent in Coimbra where she has lived since 1948 .

This message was read by Pope John Paul II who decided not to reveal this secret because he thought doing so would bring panic and despair to the world.

Now another part of this message is being revealed.

NOT OUT OF PANIC BUT BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE ALREADY READY TO KNOW IT AND MAY BE AWARE

Lucia first delivered the message to Pope John Paul II, who after reading it, trembled a lot and decided not to make it public for fear of the reaction.

The virgin said to Lucia:

“Do not be afraid, dear. I am the Mother of Heaven, speaking to you and asking you to make this message public to the whole world. You will then meet strong resistance.

Listen and heed what I say: The sins of men need to be atoned for. With humble supplication, they must ask forgiveness for the sins they have committed and those they could have committed. You want me to give you a sign so that everyone accepts my words that I say to humanity through you. They saw the wonder of the miracle of the Sun, all believers, non-believers, farmers, citizens, scholars, journalists, seculars, priests, all saw it.

A great punishment will befall all humanity, not today, not tomorrow, but in the second half of the 21st century. I had already revealed to the children Melania and Massimino, "La Salette", and today I repeat to you why humanity has sinned and trampled on the gift that God gives. Nowhere in the world will there be order and Satan reigns in the highest degrees that determine the ground of things, because men are led by the devil, sowing hatred and revenge everywhere.

Men make deadly weapons that can destroy the world in minutes.

Half of humanity could be terribly destroyed.

There will be conflicts between religious orders.

God will allow all natural phenomena like smoke, hail, cold, water, fire, floods, earthquakes, viruses, inclement weather, terrible catastrophes and extremely cold winters like these times to wipe out the earth little by little.

There will be diseases without a cure, people will mock the saints and the church.

There will be uncontrolled killings, people will kill each other, many people will suffer.

Some natural phenomena will occur before 2025 and then continue with greater intensity and greater destruction, the climate will suddenly change to extreme weather conditions.

They will not survive, they lack charity towards their neighbor and they do not love one another as my Son Jesus loved them.

Many will wish to be among the dead, because millions of people will lose their lives in a few seconds and others will suffer too much, new life forms will come and contribute to the destruction, to give them more power and consequently procreate their number, it is a race.

The punishments that await us on Earth are unimaginable, but they will surely come.

God helps the world, but whoever does not testify faithfulness to the Son of God, Jesus Christ, will be destroyed, because many turn their backs on Him and He can do nothing about it.

Father Agostino, who resides in Fátima, received authorization from Pope Paul VI to visit Sister Lucia.

Father Agostino expresses that she received him very weakly, with tears in her eyes, and told him:

"Father, the Virgin Mary is very sad because nobody is interested in her 1917 prophecy, people don't want to know about this prophecy.

So while the good ones must tread a narrow path; the wicked are treading a broad path that leads them straight to destruction and believe, Father, that the chastisement will come very soon since 2020 and it will come with firm power.

Many souls may be lost and many nations and states will disappear from Earth; the world may be lost forever.

The time has come for everyone to pass on the Virgin Mary's message to their family, their friends and to the whole world.

We are near the last minute, the last day, and disaster is coming.

(ATTENTION) WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?

There is talk of peace and security everywhere, but the punishment will come without anything to stop it.

A WILD WAR WILL BRING NUCLEAR DESTRUCTION.

This war can destroy everything, anything, it will be a disaster.

The darkness will then fall on us for 72 hours (3 days) and the third party who will survive these 72 hours of darkness and official; will begin to live in a NEW ERA.

On a very cold night ten minutes before midnight (Portuguese time) a GREAT EARTHQUAKE will shake the earth for eight hours.

The good ones, those who propagate the prophecy of the Virgin of Fatima,

SHOULD NOT FEAR, but others will suffer the consequences of ignoring this warning, the earthquake will cause the destruction of a large part of the earth, some parts will separate and cause great disasters!

WHAT TO DO?...

Sister Lucia says what the Virgin said:

"Don't leave your house and don't let strangers in, there will be new and unknown people who will look pretty talkative and say to join them, their new race and lifestyle, we don't accept it!"

These new "people" will benefit from the disaster that will happen in the world (earth)...

Sister Lucia continues with what was revealed to her:

So that you can prepare yourselves and stay alive, as my children who are also taking this warning seriously, I will give the following signs:

It's going to be a very cold night. It will be during a strong wind...

There will be anguish and soon the earthquake will begin that will make the earth shake strongly...

Close the doors and windows at home and don't talk to those who are not inside the house...

Don't look outside, don't be curious, for this will be the wrath of the Lord...

Light blessed candles, for three days no other light can shine...

The movement will be so violent that it will move the earth 23⁰ degrees and then return to its normal position...

Then there will be total darkness that will cover the whole Earth. All evil spirits will be dissolved and released doing great harm to souls who did not want to hear this message and those who do not want to repent...

Everything will be dark and a great mystical cross will appear in Heaven to remind us of the price that the Son of God, Jesus Christ, paid for our redemption.

Sister Lucia continues to refer to what the Virgin entrusted to her:

We pray as follows:

O God, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell and take to Heaven all souls, especially those most in need of your mercy."

Those who believe in the message that God sends and bring the message to others should fear nothing on the Great Day of the Lord...

Those who remain silent now will be responsible for this great number of souls lost to ignorance...

When the earth no longer shakes, those who still do not believe in our Lord will die horribly...

The wind will bring gas, viruses and water everywhere...

Then the sun will rise again...

Many can live after these disasters...

once they have started they cannot look outside the house for any reason because God does not want any of his children to see when he punishes these sinners how they suffer and he does not want them to see the pain he will cause these wicked people. ..

We need to understand that God allows all this to pass and we need to understand that God will punish all those who did not listen to what this text says, that's why so much panic was caused, because God will unleash his uncontrollable wrath and find all those who offended and destroyed the world...

Remember that the word of God is not a threat, but good news.

Perhaps God allows it to be so, because He wants to save everyone for Him.

If you read it, say something.

They say that every beat of our heart is God saying he loves us.

Have you ever stopped to think how many times he told you this today?

If you love God leave an amen and share in seven groups on Facebook. If you're ashamed of God, watch...

Remember, God said:

If you deny me among men, I will deny you before the Father.

Amen

 

[JSRG]

The article seems to be attacking a strawman. It claims:

"The news that Pope Francis considers Christians and Marxists to be natural allies, since we share the same goals and values."

It then goes on to attack the claim that they "share the same goals and values." Yet the only thing see it offering as evidence for this being something Francis said or endorsed is the following quote:

"Beyond religious and ideological boundaries, Christians and Marxists, as well as people of good will recognise today that they are united in their commitment to the end of armed conflicts in the world and the security of the most basic human rights, in order to guarantee social equilibrium and peace for humanity."

This is a much more limited claim; it does not say they "share the same goals and values", it identifies a few specific goals that are shared. There's still room for criticism even in regards to those, but it seems to me if one wishes to criticize the statement, one should... criticize the statement that was actually shown as evidence, not the apparently imaginary version of it that the article sets up in order to attack.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

To be honest, the Pope is a Jesuit, the inventors of liberation theology and the destroyer of Latin America.

He believes there's no incompatibility, and he means it I'm sure. Some of what he was personally involved with in his life should have given a clue here.

But I'm one of those evil reformed Baptists, aka calvinists, whom the Catholic Church declares anathema on...

So you know, only take me with a grain of salt but shouldn't you all have given more consideration to who you were making your Pope?

Sorry, felt like ranting.

You can't answer that anymore than I can blame you but we are unwittingly caught in the middle aren't we, both being American Christians. And being caught in the middle sucks.

Greetings brother, and I share your rant, but not your theology, but we need not argue that here.
I was once a Calvinist but the Lord showed me that there is no Biblical reason not to be Catholic, and it had to be God, because what man wanting to follow conservative biblical Christianity would ever consider Catholicism in the state that the Church is in? Modernism has taken its toll.

When I was in catechism in the 1970s, I felt like I was surrounded by people that had no faith, and the Catechesis in high school was no better, even worse. The teaching was so wishy washy that I could not stand it. My teachers were commies and naturalists. They said they believed in God, but paid lip service and bought into the spirit of the age. Communism, feminism, and materialism. It was isolating. Anyone have faith?

What I found by study is that the left wing is not consistent with Catholic Church teaching, but there are those that try to say that it is, including Francis. That is disheartening, but not defeating.

If you want to talk about it, I can, but we need not start an argument. I appreciate your sentiments. I would only like you to consider Our Lord’s parable of the wheat and the tares. The Lord founded a Church. Satan sent his men in to try and poison the garden. The Lord told us not to uproot it. Vengeance belongs to the Lord, He will repay. We are to let the tares grow along with the wheat.

The state of the Catholic Church is the result of us getting the leaders we deserve. If we want schism, God will give us a leader that will justify our feelings of schism, even though schism is just as much a sin as heresy. Unless our hearts are pure, the feeling of schism will rise and the quality of our leaders decline.

If you are interested there are two excellent books that can explain the current situation

The Jesuits by Fr Malachi Martin
The Devil and Karl Marx by Paul Kengor

Both are available on Amazon. They were eye opening for me. It’s not the Jesuits that invented liberation theology, rather KGB operatives entered the Jesuits and spoke a lie so compelling that it, if it were possible, would deceive the very elect .
There are Bible believing Catholics in the Church. We study, scripture, Church history and magisterial teaching. We agree the Church is full of tares, but the wheat is still here, all is not lost
God promised, the gates of hell will not prevail.

If you want to talk, I am open. Being a former Calvinist myself I understand your objections and even agree with some of them. If you would like to discuss theology, it would be a pleasure

 

[Wolseley]

Greetings brother, and I share your rant,

She's your sister.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

She's your sister.

So sorry, but in the 21st century I am torn by not caring. Horrors, I misgendered some one

No disrespect to Hazelelponi, but if a fellow conservative misgendered me, I would find it hilarious

MiLady, please pardon my oversight

 

[Hazelelponi]

So sorry, but in the 21st century I am torn by not caring. Horrors, I misgendered some one

No disrespect to Hazelelponi, but if a fellow conservative misgendered me, I would find it hilarious

MiLady, please pardon my oversight

Oh your just fine. It really doesn't bother me either.

The only reason I make sure to note it is because I am a sister and when speaking of the things of God I feel people should know since I don't speak with authority. (If I were a man it would be different).

 

[Hazelelponi]

If you want to talk, I am open. Being a former Calvinist myself I understand your objections and even agree with some of them. If you would like to discuss theology, it would be a pleasure

I'll remember that and if I decide to I'll give you a holler.

I'll definitely check those books out! I'm a reader... Thank you

God bless you for your kindness. And I am sorry for getting frustrated.. moment of weakness that. Please forgive me.

 

[Wolseley]

So sorry, but in the 21st century I am torn by not caring. Horrors, I misgendered some one

No disrespect to Hazelelponi, but if a fellow conservative misgendered me, I would find it hilarious

MiLady, please pardon my oversight

The only reason I mentioned it was because I made the same mistake a few days ago. So we're in the same boat----but I'm sure Hazelelponi doesn't mind.

 

[The Barbarian]

To be honest, the Pope is a Jesuit, the inventors of liberation theology and the destroyer of Latin America.

Ironically, Francis as a bishop in Argentina debated those advocating liberation theology and rather effectively won the debate.

With the election of the Argentinean Jorge Mario Bergoglio as head of the global church in 2013, the question about the legacy of liberation theology was actualized. The canonization of Archbishop Oscar Romero and the pope’s approximation to the public figure of Gustavo Gutiérrez signaled a new approach to the liberation theology movement in the Vatican. This article argues that Pope Francis shares some of the main theological concerns as pontiff with liberation theology. Although the pope remains an outsider to liberation theology, he has in a sense solved the conflict between the Vatican and the Latin American social movement. Through an analysis of ecclesial documents and theological literature, his can be discerned on three levels. First, Pope Francis’ use of certain theological ideas from liberation theology has been made possible and less controversial by post-cold war contexts. Second, Pope Francis has contributed to the solution of this conflict through significant symbolic gestures rather than through a shift of official positions. Third, as Pope Francis, the Argentinian Jorge Mario Bergoglio has appropriated certain elements that are specific to liberation theology without acknowledging his intellectual debt to it.

The Solved Conflict: Pope Francis and Liberation Theology - International Journal of Latin American Religions

The battle for meaning and influence between Latin American liberations theologians and the Vatican was one of the most significant conflicts in the global Catholic church of the twentieth century. With the election of the Argentinean Jorge Mario Bergoglio as head of the global church in 2013...

link.springer.com

Bergoglio turned the entire debate in Argentina toward the Church. Which, I think, is one of the reasons he was elected as Pontiff. Thesis, antithesis, synthesis. Lenin is rolling in his grave.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I apologize if my columns are making The Stream seem like an angry Catholic website. But with all the madness that has been hitting the world from this Vatican, I feel like a harried zookeeper trying to clean up the monkey enclosure during a really raucous poop fight.

The latest fragrant projectile to smack us from inside the bars: The news that Pope Francis considers Christians and Marxists to be natural allies, since we share the same goals and values. The pope this week received representatives of Marxist organizations and lauded their concern for social justice. Here’s a quote from the statement the groups presented him:


Vatican News reported that Francis


Pope Francis didn’t stop to croon John Lennon’s “Imagine.” He didn’t need to.




Marxist ‘Christians’ and Useful Idiots

Continued below.

Do Christians and Communists Have the Same Goals, as Pope Francis Claims? - The Stream

Pope Francis is praising Communists as sharing the same values and goals as Christians. He's out of his mind.

stream.org

First off, Marxism is not to be equated as identical to Communism. Secondly, both Marxist theory and Communist theory come in various shades, theories and applications by those who use them.

Thirdly, Communism isn't Christianity and, other than what tiny little itty-bitty 'class struggle' themes we might see reflected in the New Testament writings---like those hinted at in the letter to James in our New Testament---Communists and Christians do not have the same social goals. I hope Francis rethinks his priorities, because its obvious he's playing a political card to pull in and conciliate the Catholics who aver for some form of over-extended Liberation Theology.

 

[The Barbarian]

First off, Marxism is not to be equated as identical to Communism. Secondly, both Marxist theory and Communist theory come in various shades, theories and applications by those who use them.

This is very true. In fact, the only communist societies that succeeded for any length of time in the U.S. were Christian communists. I'm sure you already know this, but anyone who doubts it should look up Oneida Society and the Amana Colonies. The Amanas were so thoroughly communistic that they didn't even have kitchens in their homes. Everyone ate in communal dining halls.

And yet they were devout Christians. Ironically, for communism to succeed, there must be devotion to something larger than one's self, and the state just won't serve that purpose.

Thirdly, Communism isn't Christianity and, other than what tiny little itty-bitty 'class struggle' themes we might see reflected in the New Testament writings---like those hinted at in the letter to James in our New Testament---Communists and Christians do not have the same social goals. I hope Francis rethinks his priorities, because its obvious he's playing a political card to pull in and conciliate the Catholics who aver for some form of over-extended Liberation Theology.

He just undercut the Marxists by endorsing Christ's concern for the least among us, without putting it on the state. Yes, many early Christians lived as communists, but they did so voluntarily without government intervention. As you say, not all communists are Marxists.