Cruel and Unusual or just Unusually Cruel.

[12volt_man]

Whether or not I believe in the Bible is irrelevant. The question is whether or not your vision of Jesus is rooted in the text of the Bible. And claiming your position is established beyond question is just another way of refusing to put your cards on the table. So be it, but for the record, your post will be my evidence. The Jesus you describe is bloodthirsty. Call it any other name, punishment for sin, what have you. Call it Fred if you like, but the quality you celebrate in your post is bloodthirst. Thank you 12 Volt. You have proven my point, even if you are unwilling to prove your own.

Again, it has nothing to do with "bloodthirsty-ness". It's simply showing that Jesus is not the wimpy, pacifistic hippie that you guys are trying to paint Him as.

 

[Athene]

Again, it has nothing to do with "bloodthirsty-ness". It's simply showing that Jesus is not the wimpy, pacifistic hippie that you guys are trying to paint Him as.

Nobody is saying Jesus is a 'wimpy pacifistic hippie' and he's certainly not the militant blood thirsty monster you make him out to be, BTW, not sure how you get Jesus instituting the death penalty from John 19:11, care to explain?

And whichever way you look at it, a group of people, christians by all accounts, discussing the best way to send somebody off to meet their maker is just plain sick.

Oh and one more thing, judge not or you will be judged, forgive 7 x 70, turn the other cheek, love your enemy, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. And he healed the ear of the servant.

 

[12volt_man]

Nobody is saying Jesus is a 'wimpy pacifistic hippie'

Then what is the point of all of the posts condemning Christians for supporting the death penalty, which is a Biblical teaching?

and he's certainly not the militant blood thirsty monster you make him out to be,

No, I've never made Jesus out to be a militant bloodthirsty monster.

BTW, not sure how you get Jesus instituting the death penalty from John 19:11, care to explain?

I don't know why I should have to explain something I've never said and don't believe.

And whichever way you look at it, a group of people, christians by all accounts, discussing the best way to send somebody off to meet their maker is just plain sick.

Why? Would you rather we just drag murderers out to a field and put it to a vote? "I say we hang him! What about you Bob?" "Oh, I don't know. What if we shot him? Fred? Any ideas?" "Well, sure we could shoot him. Maybe we could send him hunting with Dick Cheney. I still think it would be better if we electrocuted him."

Oh and one more thing, judge not or you will be judged, forgive 7 x 70, turn the other cheek, love your enemy, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. And he healed the ear of the servant.

I agree, although I have no idea what this has to do with the topic at hand.

 

[Athene]

The same Jesus who stood before Pilate and told Pilate that his authority to carry out capital punishment on behalf of the state came directly from God?

12volt_man, John 19:11 is the only verse I can find remotely relating to this, if you were talking about a different verse then feel free to correct me.

Could you please tell me how you interpreted John 19:11 to mean the above.

 

[Athene]

You mean the same Jesus who instituted the death penalty?

You did say Jesus instituted the death penalty.

 

[12volt_man]

12volt_man, John 19:11 is the only verse I can find remotely relating to this, if you were talking about a different verse then feel free to correct me.

Could you please tell me how you interpreted John 19:11 to mean the above.

Again, I have never said this, nor do I believe this. Why you would continue to insist this after I have explained this to you, I don't know.

 

[12volt_man]

You did say Jesus instituted the death penalty.

Sure I did. It's true. Jesus did institute the death penalty.

 

[Brimshack]

Perhaps if you didn't make people guess your reasons in the first place, they might have a better idea of what those reasons are. And the post to which you referred contains a direct request for an alternative scripture. To characterize Athene as insisting on something you denied is hardly accurate. She appears to be trying the same thing I did, just trying to figure out the basis for your claim. But clearly it's too much to ask.

I wonder how reckless one has to get with invoking Jesus' name before it qualifies as taking it in vain...

 

[Athene]

Again, I have never said this, nor do I believe this. Why you would continue to insist this after I have explained this to you, I don't know.

But you did, I quoted you, it's there in black and white, you said . . .

"You mean the same Jesus who institued the death penalty? The same Jesus who stood before Pilate and told Pilate that his authority to carry out capital punishment on behalf of the state came directly from God?"

I then did a search on the bible for Pilate and Jesus and only came back with the one verse even remotely relating to the above quote which is

11Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."

If you don't mean this bible verse then please provide me with the one you do mean Is that such a difficult thing to do? .

 

[12volt_man]

But you did, I quoted you, it's there in black and white, you said . . .

And in thie quote you provided, clearly these are two different things.

 

[Athene]

And in thie quote you provided, clearly these are two different things.

Why the avoidance? All I'm asking is that you provide me with the bible verse(s) where Jesus institutes the death penalty and where Jesus informs Pilate that his authority to carry out capital punishment came from God.

BTW, your sentence doesn't make any sense.

 

[christalee4]

http://reason.com/9811/col.olson.shtml

Heck, why stop with hanging. I mean, why not be Biblically accurate and truly make the execution memorable with stoning or burning?

Quote: "

So when Exodus 21:15-17 prescribes that cursing or striking a parent is to be punished by execution, that's fine with Gary North. "When people curse their parents, it unquestionably is a capital crime," he writes. "The integrity of the family must be maintained by the threat of death." Likewise with blasphemy, dealt with summarily in Leviticus 24:16: "And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him." Reconstructionists provide the most enthusiastic constituency for stoning since the Taliban seized Kabul. "Why stoning?" asks North. "There are many reasons. First, the implements of execution are available to everyone at virtually no cost." Thrift and ubiquity aside, "executions are community projects--not with spectators who watch a professional executioner do `his' duty, but rather with actual participants." You might even say that like square dances or quilting bees, they represent the kind of hands-on neighborliness so often missed in this impersonal era. "That modern Christians never consider the possibility of the reintroduction of stoning for capital crimes," North continues, "indicates how thoroughly humanistic concepts of punishment have influenced the thinking of Christians." And he may be right about that last point, you know."

All of that "humanism" has taken the bite out of punishment, do you think. Now children can't learn life's lessons properly, without witnessing a dramatic stoning, hanging, drawing and quartering, beheading, impaling, or one of the effectively dramatic execution methods used by religious authorities to kill heretics and Jews with: burning alive.

Now, what's a better execution method? Stoning, or burning? It's true, as Mr. North said, that stoning is cheap and effective. Stones are easy to come by, the community participates and watches, and everyone is accountable. However, one has to say something about the efficacy of burning a criminal alive as punishment. It's really dramatic and it will certainly make an impression on the children. As the Rev. Ray Sutton, a prominent Reconstructionist proponent once said, "Reconstructed Biblical theocracies would be 'happy' places, to which people would flock because 'capital punishment is one of the best evangelistic tools of a society.'"

 

[MoodyBlue]

Sure I did. It's true. Jesus did institute the death penalty.

I thought he came to save us, not kill us.