Conservative Pastor Overcomes Struggles to Accept Transgender Daughter

[Linda24]

Single people only have one non-sinful option when it comes to sex. I consider same sex "couples" single. If they want to live together and be celibate, that is none of business. Regardless of what the law allows, marriage is a Sacrament between a man, woman and God. Our will and the law cannot change that.

Hey, Bubba, I live alone! Not because I want, but because I'm in mourning. Renate, my partner, died three years ago. Before I got to know Renate, I was married to a man. I was unhappy because I had married him because my family and the church (then I belonged to the Mormon cult) wanted it. A woman should marry a man, get his children, raise them. So the idea of my family and the Mormon church. But that was not my wish. I wanted to study, to travel, to get to know the world, to make friends, to find someone I love, to love me, and then I knew I was lesbian. I lived the lives of others, not my own life!
Renate and I were twenty years together, ten of them married. For the (German) law allows us at the moment only the "marriage light". In the US, we can marry, but not in a church, if the Church does not want it. The law in the US therefore allows a marriage outside the heterosexual norm. It is law, allowed by the Supreme Court.

Back to the issue of the OP, trans* people do not make a choice to be trans*. Being trans* is simply a part of who they are. There are also many people who are born intersexed, that is being born with both physical sexes, and people who are 'third-gender.' These are not choices, and it's a question of civil rights.

Not just a question of civil rights, but also a question of what kind of Christian we want to be. Did Jesus Christ exclude people, condemn them because they were the way they were? No, he helped wherever he could.
As a lesbian in the Lutheran Church in Berlin, my faith and understanding have grown. I am compassionate, more tolerant and more inquisitive than I was during my time at the Mormons.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

Hey, Bubba, I live alone! Not because I want, but because I'm in mourning. Renate, my partner, died three years ago.

I want offer my condolences and I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

Not just a question of civil rights, but also a question of what kind of Christian we want to be. Did Jesus Christ exclude people, condemn them because they were the way they were? No, he helped wherever he could.
As a lesbian in the Lutheran Church in Berlin, my faith and understanding have grown. I am compassionate, more tolerant and more inquisitive than I was during my time at the Mormons.

I absolutely agree; that is my understanding as a Christian as well and my partner and I had a wonderful civil union ceremony followed by prayers and a blessing at our Episcopal church. We definitely plan to be fully married soon with our wedding at church.

By the way, I was raised in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, and we attended a congregation of the EKD when I was little in Rüsselsheim!

 

[football5680]

Milo is a racist,

Well this proves you have no idea what you are talking about.

nationalist

LOL. I find it hilarious that you would chalk this up as something bad about him.

and sexist.

Because he exposes the insanity and hypocrisy of modern feminism?

His comments about non-Europeans and women are disturbing.

Not really.

Milo is also transphobic. He is very prejudiced against trans* people.

How so?

It's a shame that people would listen to someone like him.

Yes, the inconvenient truth.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Well, you are free to consider something however you want. That is your right, and it is the right for others to consider themselves how they want. In The Episcopal Church, we have amended our canon law to include marriage for same-gendered couples, and the Church of England, our mother church, has supported and approved civil unions for priests in same-gender relationships.

Back to the issue of the OP, trans* people do not make a choice to be trans*. Being trans* is simply a part of who they are. There are also many people who are born intersexed, that is being born with both physical sexes, and people who are 'third-gender.' These are not choices, and it's a question of civil rights.

My point is God decides how we are made, not man. He made us with two genders only. Our desires, whether it includes a genetic abnormality or same sex attractions or whatever (we could talk all day of the different categories); those things are not suppose to create a conflict with His Will and ours. We are suppose to conform our will to His, not change what He made us or how we should live to suit ourselves.

Our dignity and identity as humans is not just gender, it is woven with our purpose to love, serve and know Him. Anything we do contrary to that purpose is working against our self, our own human dignity. If we choose to allow our will to do so, that is the choice that is wrong. It is saying to God, you made this way and so it is my will be done not Thy Will be done, and Your (God's) fault for making me like this. Am not sure that will fly on Judgement day.

The Nature of Man | Catholic Answers

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

Well this proves you have no idea what you are talking about.


LOL. I find it hilarious that you would chalk this up as something bad about him.


Because he exposes the insanity and hypocrisy of modern feminism?


Not really.


How so?


Yes, the inconvenient truth.

If I shared the articles written by him, they would probably get me censored because they violate the community standards of just about every decent forum. He calls names. He hurls those insults out all the time. I'm not sure what 'christian' would think that was appropriate, but this site has proven me wrong sadly. Milo attempted to single out a trans* woman at a college event; he had a picture of her and mocked her. That is not just an 'opinion'. That is actually work-place/professional site harassment. I cannot even believe people ware defending that kind of harassment at a work-place or professional environment. Then again, Trump was elected after saying "grab them by the ___." Disturbing, yes.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

Because he exposes the insanity and hypocrisy of modern feminism?
.

Also, yes, nationalism is bad. It is part of his racist ideology that his country, and other countries that look like his country, are superior.
Secondly, really against 'modern feminism?' You mean you define modern feminism as women can have the same jobs as men? Because, Milo said that women should not be allowed to be in STEM programs as much as men. He must be some snowflake to be so offended that women want to be in science programs! Yeah, that's called sexism. He literally said women should not be allowed in STEM programs.

 

[football5680]

If I shared the articles written by him, they would probably get me censored because they violate the community standards of just about every decent forum. He calls names. He hurls those insults out all the time. I'm not sure what 'christian' would think that was appropriate, but this site has proven me wrong sadly. Milo attempted to single out a trans* woman at a college event; he had a picture of her and mocked her. That is not just an 'opinion'. That is actually work-place/professional site harassment. I cannot even believe people ware defending that kind of harassment at a work-place or professional environment. Then again, Trump was elected after saying "grab them by the ___." Disturbing, yes.

Yeah, he made fun of a guy in a dress trying to force his way into the women's locker room using the government.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

Yeah, he made fun of a guy in a dress trying to force his way into the women's locker room using the government.

First of all, the university in question supports trans* people using the restroom of their gender-identity. Secondly, that is a detestable transphobic comment attacking a trans* woman. What is 'christian' about that kind of hatred?
That is also workplace harassment. That applies to professional settings, and bullying in any place, work or school, is wrong.

 

[football5680]

Also, yes, nationalism is bad. It is part of his racist ideology that his country, and other countries that look like his country, are superior.

Not really. Saying you are an American says absolutely nothing about your race. We have all kinds of races. Our culture is what he wants to defend against those who want to tear it down like all the leftists. I'm sorry that the glorious Soviet Union which smashed all nationalities ended but you have to get over it.

Secondly, really against 'modern feminism?' You mean you define modern feminism as women can have the same jobs as men? Because, Milo said that women should not be allowed to be in STEM programs as much as men. He must be some snowflake to be so offended that women want to be in science programs! Yeah, that's called sexism. He literally said women should not be allowed in STEM programs.

Did he? Or did he say they should not receive preferential treatment over men, for the simple fact that they are women? Shouldn't the system be based on merit instead of something you can't control?

 

[football5680]

First of all, the university in question supports trans* people using the restroom of their gender-identity.
Secondly, that is a detestable transphobic comment attacking a trans* woman. What is 'christian' about that kind of hatred?

Why is pointing out reality considered hatred? It's a man in a dress. It wasn't like he was like Bruce Jenner who can pass as a woman from a distance, this was literally just a man in a dress making no effort.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

Why is pointing out reality considered hatred? It's a man in a dress. It wasn't like he was like Bruce Jenner who can pass as a woman from a distance, this was literally just a man in a dress making no effort.

Wow, this site has shown me a side of 'christians' that horrifies me. You do not know what she was wearing when Milo harassed her, and it doesn't matter. She was bullied and harassed on campus. That is a violation of community standards at universities.

Now, how would you feel if someone talked about you in the way that you're talking about this trans* woman? Whether you agreed with the other person or not, how would that be right to attack in the way you have? Jesus said to love your neighbour as yourself.

Here is an example of someone who disagrees with a liberal view, but who still shows respect, kindness, and NOT name-calling. Pope Francis said that, agree or disagree with people on these issues, gracious pastoral care is needed.
Pope Francis says he has accompanied gay and transgender people through pastoral care

 

[football5680]

Wow, this site has shown me a side of 'christians' that horrifies me. You do not know what she was wearing when Milo harassed her, and it doesn't matter. She was bullied and harassed on campus. That is a violation of community standards at universities.

He wasn't bullied on campus. Milo spoke about him on campus because he was trying to use Title 9 to force his way into the women's locker room.

This is the picture he used when he spoke about him and saying he is a man in a dress is pretty accurate.

Now, how would you feel if someone talked about you in the way that you're talking about this trans* woman? Whether you agreed with the other person or not, how would that be right to attack in the way you have? Jesus said to love your neighbour as yourself.

If they spoke about me accurately and pointed out that I was attempting to take advantage of something that I had no right to, then I would be fine with it.

Here is an example of someone who disagrees with a liberal view, but who still shows respect, kindness, and NOT name-calling. Pope Francis said that, agree or disagree with people on these issues, gracious pastoral care is needed.
Pope Francis says he has accompanied gay and transgender people through pastoral care

If this person was not attempting to do something unjust and take advantage of Title 9 which does not apply to him, then he wouldn't have been criticized. There would have been a nicer way to state his points but when the media is going to say you are a racist, homophobe, sexist, transphobe, etc. regardless, there is little incentive to hold back.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

He wasn't bullied on campus. Milo spoke about him on campus because he was trying to use Title 9 to force his way into the women's locker room.
.

Calling someone names on campus, targeting them on campus, and harassing them on campus IS BULLYING. In addition to that, it is simply unChristian. It is simply not the kind thing to do. I would have hoped, prior to the now not-so-shocking realisation, that 'christians' would be able to be kind to someone even when they disagree. However, it seems that calling names and misgendering someone negatively on purpose passes among so-called 'christians' these days.

 

[Raphael Jauregui]

He wasn't bullied on campus. Milo spoke about him on campus because he was trying to use Title 9 to force his way into the women's locker room.
.

Oh, and some legalities here. Title IX does protect trans* people because Title IX protects all students irrespective of gender or sex. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 also, thanks to the wisdom of those in its time who saw the need to protect people based on gender and sex, expressly states that a business or public or publicly-funded institution cannot discriminate based on gender or sex.

That's on top of just being a polite, decent, respectful person and not calling people names, bullying them, or misgendering them on purpose. In other words, the legal issues in her favour are in addition to the fact that Jesus said to love your neighbour as yourself.

 

[Davidnic]

MOD HAT

Closing this thread given the forum rule below. This is not one of the areas where the rules allow the discussion of transgender issues.

• Transsexualism and transgenderism may be discussed, without promotion*, in the Congregations forums as in line with each group's beliefs there. You may post without promotion* in the Struggles with Sexuality and Ask a Chaplain forums solely for the purpose of seeking support with personal struggles related to these issues. Members may not promote* transsexualism or transgenderism in their profiles.

* Promotion is defined as encouragement of the progress, growth, or acceptance of something including advertising and publicity.

MOD HAT