Communication Breakdown

[Willtor]

... It's always the same, I'm having a nervous breakdown, Drive me insane!

---

It seems to me that there are problems in understanding each other that are making their ways into discussion of issues, here in OT. I think a lot of peoples' understandings of where others are coming from don't come from the people, themselves. As an analogy, Christians are learning about Islam from other Christians and Muslims are learning about Christianity from other Muslims. Back when I was a YEC I read a book by Phillip Johnson called, "Defeating Darwinism by Opening Minds." He pointed out that many times a person will answer a question that is not asked because the responder heard a question he was conditioned to hear.

I think it's a common occurrence on these forums:

Do the Gospels give us any idea as to what Jesus believed about Genesis or how He interpreted it? If so, what was Jesus' position? Ready, set, debate!

He! He! Jesus is God. God created the universe as He recorded in Genesis. Therefore Jesus created the universe as He recorded in Genesis. To simplify, Yes Jesus does believe the Genesis account.

Of course, the question dealt with Jesus' interpretation. There is a loose way in which it could be said that PaladinDoodler was asking whether Jesus believed Genesis at all. But it took nothing into account of her use of the word, "interpretation," and it certainly wasn't the direction the discussion was going. Here, the communication breakdown is blindingly apparent, but I think there are a variety of occurrences, that are more subtle, that regularly crop up in OT discussions.

Thoughts?

 

[Pats]

Yes, we need to listen to eachother, and not try to read the label we think is affixed to one another's foreheads.

I have those mis-comunications when I post down in the Open forum with non-Christians jumping to conclusions about how I think and feel because I'm a Christian. To an extent, I expect it down there. But amongst our brothers and sisters, you'd think we'd have better listening ears. When I jump to conclusions about others, I usually end up kicking myself for it later.

This is similar to the discussion we're having in the thread I started in this forum, "Who is an IDist?" Shernren brought up the subject of labeling.

 

[billwald]

You will find that "The True Believer" (see book, same name, by Eric Hoffer) will always talk past each other because their minds cannot hear anything outside their "world view."

 

[RenHoek]

I don't care what you two say, Jesus loves the little children.

 

[Willtor]

You will find that "The True Believer" (see book, same name, by Eric Hoffer) will always talk past each other because their minds cannot hear anything outside their "world view."

I should pick that up. I suppose that a person has to be deliberate in order to receive communication. Does Hoffer suggest ways to reach people who are not hearing you?

I don't care what you two say, Jesus loves the little children.

 

[JohnR7]

... It's always the same, I'm having a nervous breakdown, Drive me insane!

Why do you even try to figure it out. I do not even try because as you say it would drive me nuts. I am just content to accept that there are things in life that just does not make any sense.

 

[JohnR7]

Does Hoffer suggest ways to reach people who are not hearing you?

It can be very difficult. We are taught in soul winners class at the Bible college that with some people you need to just get a pin hole of light into them. They are in total darkness and deception. The idea is if you can get them to accept just a pin hole of light and truth than they can expand and grow from there.

I see people that I think it would take five years to get them straightened out. Then I see other people that I think could be straightened out in five min. It is just a question of how much time we have to work with any one individual. We can usually help those who want help, but if they do not want help then there is not really much we can do.

God gives us a message to deliver and it is just our job to deliver it. Then it is up to the individual what they want to do with it. Like Jonah, after he delivered God's message to Ninevah, he was finished, he had accomplished what God sent him there to do.

 

[Willtor]

Why do you even try to figure it out. I do not even try because as you say it would drive me nuts. I am just content to accept that there are things in life that just does not make any sense.

It's lyrics to the song, "Communication Breakdown," by Led Zeppelin. I was being silly.

It can be very difficult. We are taught in soul winners class at the Bible college that with some people you need to just get a pin hole of light into them. They are in total darkness and deception. The idea is if you can get them to accept just a pin hole of light and truth than they can expand and grow from there.

I see people that I think it would take five years to get them straightened out. Then I see other people that I think could be straightened out in five min. It is just a question of how much time we have to work with any one individual. We can usually help those who want help, but if they do not want help then there is not really much we can do.

God gives us a message to deliver and it is just our job to deliver it. Then it is up to the individual what they want to do with it. Like Jonah, after he delivered God's message to Ninevah, he was finished, he had accomplished what God sent him there to do.

Of course, we have a message to tell. The question is whether we are hearing what others are telling us, and whether they are hearing what we say, or whether people have been conditioned to hear a particular question from a particular group of people and respond to that. This applies to the gospel of Christ and whether non-Christians are hearing what we say. But the issue I'm discussing deals primarily with origins theology and individual cases (just as they do for the gospel) may or may not have spiritual causes.

Take the example I provided. You see where bullietdodger has obviously responded to a dispute that does not exist (to my knowledge) in OT. This is here, within the Christian community. It concerns me, as it has for many years, that somebody may be telling me something but I'm not hearing it.

 

[LoG]

Take the example I provided. You see where bullietdodger has obviously responded to a dispute that does not exist (to my knowledge) in OT. This is here, within the Christian community. It concerns me, as it has for many years, that somebody may be telling me something but I'm not hearing it.

Funny thing is that when I read bullietdodger's response to the thread, I saw it as being the perfect answer. Upon further reflection...it is still the perfect answer.

 

[Willtor]

Funny thing is that when I read bullietdodger's response to the thread, I saw it as being the perfect answer. Upon further reflection...it is still the perfect answer.

I think the answer would have been more clever in the context of a thread that wasn't in a Christians-only forum. If he was trying to make a statement, he was doing it in a place that didn't need it. As far as I can tell, everybody who has posted in that thread thinks that Jesus thought Genesis was true. Again, the purpose of the thread was how he interpreted it. That is certainly the direction the discussion has gone.

 

[Pats]

One important point is to remember that more misunderstanding occur on a message board than in person.

People may not understand the meaning intended by the poster. People may not really read things through before responding.

It seems to me that bullietdodger's remark in this example could be interprated in any number of ways. He was trying to be funny? sarcastic? over simplifying a deeper issue?

It's hard to say without more input from the poster. Has he been PM'd about this thread? I don't know about you, but I don't have time to keep up with all the threads in OT. If you want to look at this specific example, it might be nice to have his feedback. I don't know. I tried to skim the original thread and haven't found this example. What were the post numbers?

Speaking in more general terms, I do fear that there is a stigma among some creationists that TEs do not "believe" the Bible. This is not dissimilar to the stigmas that exist amongst some TEs regarding YECs and even OECs.

I think overgeneralizing others into little catergories we've created in our brains is a very general epidemic when it comes to religion and politics.

 

[RenHoek]

Seems to me BD was playing sniper with that post in the other thread, as I believe it was the 1st and only post made.
Polarization is my answer. People get too worked up about proving the other wrong rather than seeking truth. I think people are afraid of having their minds changed and thus their identity/life concept shattered.

Same crap in politics. R v D. There is no principle anymore, there is only the diametric opposition to what the other guy claims first. If by some sick chance the 2 sides agree, one will inevitably flip flop (overused) to make sure there is no agreement.

We seem to forget that we are all part of the body, I happen to be the posterior and tend to be full of ****, but we are all given our place and function. We need to take a step back and attempt to see it from a macro perspective rather than focus on the minutia of the differences. The whole point is to build the body and find the lost sheep. What else did Jesus want?

 

[Willtor]

He's been back. His posts are numbers: 277 and 306. But I don't want to rail on bullietdodger for the sake of railing on bullietdodger. His posts are just the example of the hour.

Speaking in more general terms, I do fear that there is a stigma among some creationists that TEs do not "believe" the Bible. This is not dissimilar to the stigmas that exist amongst some TEs regarding YECs and even OECs.

This is what I'm trying to get at. The stigmas impede discussion because we hear only what we think we are going to hear. What are the stigmas we should be aware of?

 

[Pats]

Here's one example of an idea:

1) Do not assume facts that are not in evidence.

Example:

A person of the Messianic Jewish faith, or any other including unkown, makes a comment about following Levitacan law.

Another person responded by cutting right into them by describing how difficult it is to follow Levitecan law and accusing the person of "not following it anyway, so why are you even bringing it up?"


The better response would have been to ask something like, "Well, it's tough to follow Levitecan law in our day and age. Do you follow it stricly?"

Maybe that is one key here, ASK before you ASSUME.

(Yes, it happened.)

The second person assumed the first one didn't strictly adhere to Levitecan law when in fact they did.