Communication between men and women (2)

[shinbits]

The ONLY reason I'm starting this thread, is because the other thread on the topic got sooooo far off base, from the Original Post. It went from communication, to a very long discussion on inappropriate content addiction, to how people get too emotional and nasty during debates.

I'm just gonna start by copying and pasting my post, and let's keep this one topic. You can still discuss what you were discussing on the other thread, if you like.


Like I've said before, I think men and women communicate fine. It's only when a romantic relationship begins, that problems emerge. Men and women who are truly just friends or truly just co-workers, usually communicate fine.

It's not the gender that the issue, it's strong feelings combined with higher stakes that a relationship or marriage brings.

 

[McScribe]

Why do you think so?

 

[Conservativation]

The ONLY reason I'm starting this thread, is because the other thread on the topic got sooooo far off base, from the Original Post. It went from communication, to a very long discussion on inappropriate content addiction, to how people get too emotional and nasty during debates.

I'm just gonna start by copying and pasting my post, and let's keep this one topic. You can still discuss what you were discussing on the other thread, if you like.


Like I've said before, I think men and women communicate fine. It's only when a romantic relationship begins, that problems emerge. Men and women who are truly just friends or truly just co-workers, usually communicate fine.

It's not the gender that the issue, it's strong feelings combined with higher stakes that a relationship or marriage brings.

I just disagree. Sorry for that, but I do. Men and women, 2 by 2, can sit and have an agreeable conversation, sure, as you add numbers and people the conversation had better get more superficial or someone will misunderstand.
Also, after these "communications" between a man and a woman, the real test is to somehow go behind and ask what did they hear? What was the take away?

Further, if they are communicating about a shared problem or perception, it may go OK, but if they start to disagree, especially on an issue they have some passion about.....not so much

 

[shinbits]

I think about all the women I've known, and realized that I've never had "communication" issues, until romantic feelings got involved. I understand and communicate with my female family members and in-laws pretty well. Same with my co-workers. I haven't always gotten along with all of them, but communication usually wasn't a problem---until emotions got involved.

I think regardless of gender, communication only becomes a problem, when emotions are hightened; like when people debate a point. For example, posts on these forums during a debate about a sensitive subject, often get misrepresented, misunderstood, or even blatently misquoted. When emotions get involved, communication becomes infinately harder.

That's why many marriages are tough: because of the hightened emotion that comes from being in love, sharing financial responsibility, and raising children; and when we throw sex into the picture, it becomes crazier. Marriages can be the most emotional thing we ever go through.

But because most relationships are male/female, I think people mistakenly think that's the reason why there's a breakdown in communication. Yes, there are differences, but that's not the main reason, in my opinion, for lack of communication between men and women; it's the relationship.

 

[McScribe]

So let's see if i understand what you're saying. You're expressing the belief that there are no difficulties regarding communicating between men and women except when they are married based on your opinion that you yourself have no such difficulties?

What about the rest of us?

Could it possibly be that it is simply not as much of a concern, rather than communication issues being nonexistant?

 

[shinbits]

So let's see if i understand what you're saying. You're expressing the belief that there are no difficulties regarding communicating between men and women except when they are married based on your opinion that you yourself have no such difficulties?

What about the rest of us?

Could it possibly be that it is simply not as much of a concern, rather than communication issues being nonexistant?

Well, let's look at politics. Most politicians are still men. So why is there so much trouble with communication between them? Why do Democratic and Republican politicians argue so much, despite most of them being men? It's most certainly because of the higher emotions bought on by the higher stakes that politics brings.

Make sense?

 

[mkgal1]

I do agree that it is the emotions that are involved...and the depth of the relationship, as Shinbits said...the combined finances...raising children together & the agreements that are necessary with that...and the sexual relationship.

I think it IS regardless of gender, because we can see here...on CF...that many disagreements have arisen on emotionally charged topics between men and men...and women and women.

There are levels of "intimacy" and the first few "levels" are just exchanging facts--things most people can communicate without getting irritated. Things like...."What kind of oil do you use in the winter?" Getting deeper...is exchanging opinions...and THAT is where things begin to get charged up, as things are getting personal.

It makes sense to me that the more "involved" you are with someone....the more complicated communication is going to be.

 

[Conservativation]

See, even here, I didnt get what MK did at all from shinbits OP.

She seems to thing its a general proclamation that communication gets harder with emotional depth, so she just agrees with that and moves on, thus dismissing completely ANY gender notion at all.

His OP, to me, said, the GENDERS have a hard time. Then he added about politicians, but that example I dont see as good, they do communicate, they just disagree! Big difference. Agreement is NOT what determines if communication occurred, and disagreement is not what says it didnt. Politicians communicate AND disagree. They disagree by design, they BEGIN in disagreement. Its a bad example IMO.

A comparison would be between 2 men communicating.....2 women communicating, an unmarried man and woman. and a married man and woman. in that mix lies the question.

It boggles the mind to reject that the genders communicate differently. We could just proclaim that everyone is OK, and all is well, and there are no disagreements, and everyone is the same and equal and special....and thats that....all better

Or we can walk outside and LOOK AROUND

 

[chaz345]

Look around here where there is no romantic feelings involved and the difference in communication types along gender lines is quite stark.

 

[JanniGirl]

If you look hard enough and tilt your head just so, you certainly can "see" that its the gender difference (male vs female) rather than the emotions involved that make communication difficult.

Like every single one of us who've had a relationship with a co-worker, friend, family member that was of a different gender and are absolutely able to communicate effectively . . . . I agree that it is the depth of the relationship, the shared responsibilities, and the commitment level that largely leads to these communication gaps.

Painting things pink and blue . . . . leads to further misunderstandings because, rather than look at the type of relationship or the individuals, we're merely looking at gender. Really difficult to categorize a couple of billion people as this and a couple of billion people as that . . . . and have it hold an relevence or really any truth beyond the superficial. If its truly a gender issue than we've split the WORLD's population pretty well in half.......

 

[shinbits]

See, even here, I didnt get what MK did at all from shinbits OP.

She seems to thing its a general proclamation that communication gets harder with emotional depth, so she just agrees with that and moves on, thus dismissing completely ANY gender notion at all.

His OP, to me, said, the GENDERS have a hard time. Then he added about politicians, but that example I dont see as good, they do communicate, they just disagree! Big difference. Agreement is NOT what determines if communication occurred, and disagreement is not what says it didnt. Politicians communicate AND disagree. They disagree by design, they BEGIN in disagreement. Its a bad example IMO.

A comparison would be between 2 men communicating.....2 women communicating, an unmarried man and woman. and a married man and woman. in that mix lies the question.

It boggles the mind to reject that the genders communicate differently. We could just proclaim that everyone is OK, and all is well, and there are no disagreements, and everyone is the same and equal and special....and thats that....all better

Or we can walk outside and LOOK AROUND

You said politicans are communicating, they just disagree; isn't that the same thing that happens in marriages? Or are you talking about marriages where men and women literally aren't communicating? Because if it's the latter, then you're talking about something that isn't normal in a marriage.

But this serves only as more evidence of what I'm saying; you claimed that I "reject that the genders communicate differently"; but at the end of my second post, I actually do acknowledge that genders are different. So why was there a miscommunication between us men?

 

[shinbits]

Look around here where there is no romantic feelings involved and the difference in communication types along gender lines is quite stark.

A "difference in communication" isn't the same as a "problem in communication". Men and women don't generally have problems with each other in this area, until feelings get involved. It's also the same for people of the same genders.

 

[Conservativation]

Im calling communication knowing whats been said, not the act of sending sentences back and forth.
That you and I have a slip in communication is an anecdote, its one time one thing. Its not evidence of anything, unless you are prone to doing what gets in the way here so often, and bringing in ALWAYS type ideas. I wouldnt say men NEVER have communication problems or that a man and women ALWAYS have problems....if I said that then yes, our little thing there would matter.

But I see the politicians fully understanding each other and fully disagreeing.

I dont see that with men and women unless they really work at it by moving towards each other in style of communicating.

 

[mkgal1]

Look around here where there is no romantic feelings involved and the difference in communication types along gender lines is quite stark.

That isn't the point....the point is that it isn't a "gender" difference.....it is the "emotions" behind the communication. It isn't the movie quote thread where there is great communication difficulties...do you see personal insults being flung around in that thread like you do the threads that are related to sexless marriages? It is the threads on Sex where there are heightened disagreements. That is a topic that is emotionally charged.

IF the same discussion was with our actual spouses....most likely, because of the close involvement...communication is going to be even MORE difficult, but again...that isn't because of gender....it is because of the involvement paired with the emotions.

 

[shinbits]

Im calling communication knowing whats been said, not the act of sending sentences back and forth.
That you and I have a slip in communication is an anecdote, its one time one thing. Its not evidence of anything, unless you are prone to doing what gets in the way here so often, and bringing in ALWAYS type ideas. I wouldnt say men NEVER have communication problems or that a man and women ALWAYS have problems....if I said that then yes, our little thing there would matter.

Okay. I understand you. I'm glad you also understand that I acknowledge the differences between men and women.

But I see the politicians fully understanding each other and fully disagreeing.

I dont see that with men and women unless they really work at it by moving towards each other in style of communicating.

You see politicians "fully understanding"? What about when Republicans were accusing Obama of "death panels", but Obama and the Democrats insisted that they simply wanted to increase options for people near the end of their life, not kill off people? This isn't a mere matter of disagreement, it's one side believing something about completely off about the other side. Everyone here will agree this happens all the time with many different topics.

There reason there's miscomunication, is because of all the feelings involved, which prevent rational discourse. It's the same with men and women; it's not that we're not able to understand each other, it's the strong feelings that make this harder. Talk about something unimportant with your wife, verses something very sensitive; you'll see that you understand each perfectly with the trivial topic, and that the more sensitive topic will be the one where misunderstand might occur.

Make sense?

 

[JanniGirl]

So, Cons, do you really, literally have problems in communicating with every woman that you have any type of relationship with? I'm talking co-workers, friends, mother, sister, cousin . . . . .

Every single male/female relationship you've ever had has been plagued by these communication "problems"? -- of course that's simply antecdotal to you . . . . . I'm just not seeing that reflected with ANY consistency in reall life. Do you have any studies that show men and women have problems with communicating with each other accross the board? -- not just in close dynamic relationships such as marriage, but consistently, in most interactions regardless of the content of the discussion or nature of the relationship?

 

[Conservativation]

Okay. I understand you. I'm glad you also understand that I acknowledge the differences between men and women.


You see politicians "fully understanding"? What about when Republicans were accusing Obama of "death panels", but Obama and the Democrats insisted that they simply wanted to increase options for people near the end of their life, not kill off people? This isn't a mere matter of disagreement, it's one side believing something about completely off about the other side. Everyone here will agree this happens all the time with many different topics.

There reason there's miscomunication, is because of all the feelings involved, which prevent rational discourse. It's the same with men and women; it's not that we're not able to understand each other, it's the strong feelings that make this harder. Talk about something unimportant with your wife, verses something very sensitive; you'll see that you understand each perfectly with the trivial topic, and that the more sensitive topic will be the one where misunderstand might occur.

Make sense?

The death panels thing sint a communication issue, its a political intentional misrepresentation, usually from both sides, exaggerations etc.
The politics just are not IMO a good example. They are not even talking TO each other when they say that stuff...they are ostensibly talking TO us....the people out heeeyah

To me, youve changed the subject now.
Now I can agree, in general as emotion comes in more, communication gets harder, regardless who is involved

I didnt see that as your OP (its your OP, Im not telling you what you said Im telling you what I thought you said)

I thought you said, there is not real gender based communication issue, men and women communicate fine, until they get married and lots of feelings are then involved. It SEEMED you were suggesting that , well, the only thing that gets in the way of men and women communicating is if there are feelings involved

Thats different than what you said here above

 

[mkgal1]

You said politicans are communicating, they just disagree; isn't that the same thing that happens in marriages? Or are you talking about marriages where men and women literally aren't communicating? Because if it's the latter, then you're talking about something that isn't normal in a marriage.

But this serves only as more evidence of what I'm saying; you claimed that I "reject that the genders communicate differently"; but at the end of my second post, I actually do acknowledge that genders are different. So why was there a miscommunication between us men?

And I noticed that you said there are "differences" (and I am a female).......but, you also said those differences aren't normally the issue in communication. I agree with that as well....it is what I have been TRYING to say. A difference doesn't have to lead to problems or divisions. I think it is when we are up against different opinions than our own that communication gets VERY difficult, as we have to step outside of what we believe....how we *view* things....and look at things from a different perspective.

 

[Lilymay]

IMO, men and women communicate different because they process differently. In a personal relationship, that is more tangibly noticable because of the deeper feelings.

 

[Conservativation]

So, Cons, do you really, literally have problems in communicating with every woman that you have any type of relationship with? I'm talking co-workers, friends, mother, sister, cousin . . . . .

Every single male/female relationship you've ever had has been plagued by these communication "problems"? -- of course that's simply antecdotal to you . . . . . I'm just not seeing that reflected with ANY consistency in reall life. Do you have any studies that show men and women have problems with communicating with each other accross the board? -- not just in close dynamic relationships such as marriage, but consistently, in most interactions regardless of the content of the discussion or nature of the relationship?

It wouldn't matter if I had a study. It wouldn't matter if it was handed down on a golden tablet.

Id say the threads here are pretty dern big anecdotal evidence.

When the ISSUE is emotional is not the same thing as when the PEOPLE are emotionally involved in close dynamic relationships

None of us here are in close relationships, and someone can say "people enjoy concerts" and invariably someone else somehow gets "All people enjoy ALL concerts" from that. THAT is NOT communication, that is 2 people talking, and little making it through.

No I dont have trouble communicating with coworkers etc. Why would I? The context is that we are "on the same page" to begin with. We are talking about business or what we did over the weekend, or whatever.

I am sure if I was to discuss inappropriate content for example with them though....you bet the same troubles would show up that do here. And Ive no emotionally close relationship with them at all.