Colorado recreational marijuana retailers begin stocking shelves

[Joykins]

You could drink water or soda and not get a buzz. Most or all people drink beer or other hard liquor to get buzzed or drunk. I have never met a person that like to drink beer or liquor, that didn't want a buzz. So I would believe the sole reason to drink is to get buzzed or drunk.

I like the taste of alcoholic drinks and I find that wine in particular enhances the tastes of many foods. The buzz is just a side-benefit and to be honest, I drink alcohol less often than I would like to taste it because I don't want the buzz that frequently or on that occasion.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Utterly foolish of Colorado to do this. Letting the Genie out of the bottle so Colorado can put more drug induced Drivers on the road resulting in more deaths and serious accidents...is about as irresponsible and foolhearty as it comes.

Driving under the influence is very irresponsible --That's why there's laws against it-- Still, it always comes down to the individual to make the decision if he should drive impaired. Also I should mention, the impairing effects of marijuana are nothing like those of alcohol. Alcohol is by far, much more dangerous than marijuana. Heck, with so many terrible yet completely sober drivers out there, I doubt you'd notice any difference.

It is highly unethical of any State to do so, and in fact, hypocritical because Colorado no doubt discourages drunk and drug induced Drivers from operating an Automobile (as if People wont do this when legally stoned) .

Yet they don't stop people from drinking.... How odd
You would think that they would go after the source of the problem, right?
Turns out, they do! It is illegal to drive under the influence of drugs and alcohol on the state of Colorado.

Also, think of upcoming Generations in Colorado who will be duped into the dangerous lifestyle ...as if rampant sexual hedonism wasn't enough for our impressionable Youth (and reprobate minded Adults) to have as a favorite pastime contributing to the wanton murdering of 4,000 developing American Babies per day nationwide.

None of these things have anything to do with the topic at hand. Don't derail the thread.

It is a clear example of how our Nation is quickly gravitating toward the moral cesspool of no return

I think you mean "freedom"

... one of many examples of getting further and further away from God and his loving protective moral mandates for a Nation to abide by.

Why should our secular nation abide by the laws of one religion and not any others? Do you not understand what secularism means?

And....SHAME to all evangelical Preachers who have the audacity to say that 'America is on the rebound' and other such misleading fallacious chow chips.

I take it you're a "half empty" kinda person...

 

[Desk trauma]

Think of the insurance rates that will go up!

Whose insurances rates, on what and what is your basis for thinking this?

The rehab. that will be mandated for drivers caught DUI and under the influence of pot.

At least now it would be for people who have show they are actually abusing rather then just using the drug.

The licenses for new retailers, the insurance for their shops. The advertising, all of it. Plus of course the economy will benefit because there are people that will seek to relocate just for this perk.
Amazing as that sounds.

You forgot the largest benefit, violent criminal gangs losing a large market.

 

[keith99]

Believe it or not there are people who have a beer or two without the intention of getting buzzed or drunk.

Or hard liquor.

If I wanted to get drunk I'd select something fairly cheap and mix it.

Instead I buy better stuff and sip it. Or make some interesting infusions that are not that expensive.

Of course I can see how someone who has only experienced American mass market beers and wines might think getting buzzed is the only reason to drink.

Oh for the days of nice cheap Argentinian Malbecs Great wine to go with Duck.

 

[Fenny the Fox]

Or hard liquor.

If I wanted to get drunk I'd select something fairly cheap and mix it.

Instead I buy better stuff and sip it. Or make some interesting infusions that are not that expensive.

Of course I can see how someone who has only experienced American mass market beers and wines might think getting buzzed is the only reason to drink.

Oh for the days of nice cheap Argentinian Malbecs Great wine to go with Duck.

I had one drink last night, whiskey ginger ale with a splash of raspberry liqueur. Was amazing, but no where near enough to give me a buzz.

I am hoping to make enough to buy a nice, single cask, hand-bottled bourbon soon as I have some steady work, and that is way too expensive to get a "buzz" off of. It will be drunk in a nice, short glass, neat, not refrigerated.

I also like beer. But if I am getting a buzz it is cheap stuff, not the $10+ single bottle stuff I really like. haha

So yes, I agree, one can certainly enjoy a drink without any intention to get drunk or get a buzz. Unless the wonderful feeling I get from tasting fine beverages is a buzz in and of itself.


Also, I know Kroger in my area was running a deal with a brand of Argentinian wines -malbecs and well as shiraz bends- for pretty darned cheap. They were good sipping wines - but cheap enough it didn't hurt me to get one now and then. Haven't seen them in a year or two now though...

 

[46AND2]

I don't smoke to get high. In fact, I dislike the feeling if I've had too much. I'm perfectly fine taking the edge off with either a beer or two, or a puff or two.

I don't think that you can generalize either way, that people drink to get drunk, or smoke to get high, period. As is clearly obvious, this is not always the case. Is it often true? Yes, but it is often true for both. I don't think it's a good argument against pot, relative to alcohol.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

It's better for them than the prescription and over-the-counter pills that they steal now to get high and perform better on tests.

Thanks. I really needed a big horse laugh to end my week. Here are just a few of the known negative health hazards of moderate to heavy marijuana use. You can accept these or not, makes no difference to me. But your denials won't make them any less real, any less dangerous.

Washington State University ADCAPS - Marijuana Effects

• Reduces levels of testosterone, which equates to reduced ability to gain lean muscle mass. Based on this, one can say "If you smoke weed don't bother going to the weight room."
• Reduces libido and sperm count
• Produces sperm with abnormal chromosomes
• Disrupts menstrual cycles
• Produces less healthy eggs in women
• Development of the mammary glands (gynecomastia) in men
• Studies show that THC damages the hippocampus, a critical part of the brain in terms of learning and memory
• Amotivational syndrome
• Slows the transmission of neurochemicals due to the thickening of the walls of brain cells
• Causes anxiety and panic reaction
• Increases heart rate and blood pressure
• Reduces the supply of oxygen in the blood (at a time it needs more oxygen due to increase HR and BP
• Decreases effectiveness of the immune system

 

[keith99]

I had one drink last night, whiskey ginger ale with a splash of raspberry liqueur. Was amazing, but no where near enough to give me a buzz.

I am hoping to make enough to buy a nice, single cask, hand-bottled bourbon soon as I have some steady work, and that is way too expensive to get a "buzz" off of. It will be drunk in a nice, short glass, neat, not refrigerated.

I also like beer. But if I am getting a buzz it is cheap stuff, not the $10+ single bottle stuff I really like. haha

So yes, I agree, one can certainly enjoy a drink without any intention to get drunk or get a buzz. Unless the wonderful feeling I get from tasting fine beverages is a buzz in and of itself.


Also, I know Kroger in my area was running a deal with a brand of Argentinian wines -malbecs and well as shiraz bends- for pretty darned cheap. They were good sipping wines - but cheap enough it didn't hurt me to get one now and then. Haven't seen them in a year or two now though...

Don't know the current price and it may vary anyway, but Cruzan Estate Single Barrel rum is pretty nice for the price. In blind tastings the most common guess is cognac. (limited non-scientific sample).

 

[keith99]

Thanks. I really needed a big horse laugh to end my week. Here are just a few of the known negative health hazards of moderate to heavy marijuana use. You can accept these or not, makes no difference to me. But your denials won't make them any less real, any less dangerous.

Washington State University ADCAPS - Marijuana Effects

• Reduces levels of testosterone, which equates to reduced ability to gain lean muscle mass. Based on this, one can say "If you smoke weed don't bother going to the weight room."
• Reduces libido and sperm count
• Produces sperm with abnormal chromosomes
• Disrupts menstrual cycles
• Produces less healthy eggs in women
• Development of the mammary glands (gynecomastia) in men
• Studies show that THC damages the hippocampus, a critical part of the brain in terms of learning and memory
• Amotivational syndrome
• Slows the transmission of neurochemicals due to the thickening of the walls of brain cells
• Causes anxiety and panic reaction
• Increases heart rate and blood pressure
• Reduces the supply of oxygen in the blood (at a time it needs more oxygen due to increase HR and BP
• Decreases effectiveness of the immune system

That is not a scientific source. It is actually a propaganda polemic.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Utterly foolish of Colorado to do this. Letting the Genie out of the bottle so Colorado can put more drug induced Drivers on the road resulting in more deaths and serious accidents...is about as irresponsible and foolhearty as it comes.

What about people responsibility not to drive under the influence of drugs. I drink and choose not to drive, before I even drink the first sip. If I could be responsible not to drink and drive, then others should have the same responsibilities.

 

[Sarah Sarah]

Whose insurances rates, on what and what is your basis for thinking this?

The same basis as occurs when someone is arrested for DWI.
And with all the other considerations that go into calculating risk when premiums are contingent on the demographic and now with the legal access to marijuana, it stands to reason insurance companies are going to calculate the risk for people driving under its influence.

At least now it would be for people who have show they are actually abusing rather then just using the drug.

Not at all. In some states those who are arrested for DUI, and are just barely over the minimum BAC, are required to enter into an alcohol program as a condition of having their suspended license reinstated.

Someone found to be driving while high can face the same program mandate under condition of reinstatement as well.

You forgot the largest benefit, violent criminal gangs losing a large market.

No, gangs aren't going to lose a customer base here. Right now in my home town it's easier to get black tar heroine than it is to buy reefer.
Gangs will always have a market and they will always cultivate a market to keep people hooked. Besides, legalizing pot is a boon for the gangs.

Contrary to the detractors that say otherwise, marijuana can very well be a gateway drug. Once someone experiences that mind altering experience they can seek out something else, something different.
And that's where the gangs benefit.

When there are kids that are stealing the freon from central air units just to get high, often captured on home security camera's inhaling the poison right there at the unit, gateway high is a reality.

When kids can't be stopped from smoking cigarettes now, the kids in Colorado will certainly be able to access the legal weed there. And after that most likely they're on to something else.

And the gangs are the supplier. Besides, this law doesn't stop the gang traffic in large supply and demand markets. This law legalizes weed but you can't buy a pound of the stuff at the local market.
But you can with the gangs.

 

[Fenny the Fox]

Washington State University ADCAPS - Marijuana Effects

• Reduces levels of testosterone, which equates to reduced ability to gain lean muscle mass. Based on this, one can say "If you smoke weed don't bother going to the weight room."

Umm...interesting...

• Reduces libido and sperm count
• Produces sperm with abnormal chromosomes
• Disrupts menstrual cycles
• Produces less healthy eggs in women
• Development of the mammary glands (gynecomastia) in men

These can happen, under heavy use, in some cases. Well, I haven't found an actual source on the last one there, but I will give them it since the rest are real issues that can arise.

• Studies show that THC damages the hippocampus, a critical part of the brain in terms of learning and memory

Actually, it only has temporary effects on the brain, not permanent. Stop smoking, the effects go away. So "damage" is a bit of a strong word to use really. Smoke that may be present, like if using pot in joints, blunts, bowls, bongs, etc., on the other hand is a major issue for the brain, thanks to lowered O2 levels in blood going to the brain case. That isn't the fault of THC though, but it is a reason to advocate for vaporizing and edibles.

• Amotivational syndrome

I love that one. Lazy people are lazy, studious people will be studious. Pot does not cause either. I know a LOT of pot heads (ironic, since I do not like doing it or smelling it, but that is neither here nor there), some of whom are college grads with degrees and good jobs and some of whom are nobodies. But again, it had nothing to do with pot either way.


"Amotivational Syndrome" is, frankly, hogwash. It is the stuff stupid propaganda like Reefer Madness and such are made of - made up, unproven allegations with no backing but hearsay and conjecture.

• Slows the transmission of neurochemicals due to the thickening of the walls of brain cell
  ​

I'd love to actually see that research. Not saying it is not true, but haven't seen it.

• Causes anxiety and panic reaction

It can also do just the opposite. All depends on the persons reactions, not on the drug itself.

• Increases heart rate and blood pressure

For a very short time, yes it can. Not any worse than jogging for a few minutes or going up a couple flights of stairs though - 10-20 bpm change in rate and a slight increase of pressure as well.

This could, potentially, be part of the mechanism that causes a panic reaction as mentioned above.

• Reduces the supply of oxygen in the blood (at a time it needs more oxygen due to increase HR and BP

HR and BP don't necessitate increase of oxygen in system. They generally are a reaction to expedite oxygen -hence increases during exercise and activity- but do not generate a need for increased blood oxygen levels in and of themselves.


I also note, despite being a release from the health center for Washington State, they left off the end mark for that parenthetical. Very bad image there, glad I don't go to WSU.

• Decreases effectiveness of the immune system

This, so far as I know, only applies to SMOKING cannabis and not to any other methods of use and is due the fact it is smoke. The cigar I just bought is likely to do the same if I smoke them very much, as did the cigarettes I smoked for several years.

 

[Desk trauma]

The same basis as occurs when someone is arrested for DWI.
And with all the other considerations that go into calculating risk when premiums are contingent on the demographic and now with the legal access to marijuana, it stands to reason insurance companies are going to calculate the risk for people driving under its influence.

I very much doubt that auto insurance rates will rise but I may well be wrong.

Not at all. In some states those who are arrested for DUI, and are just barely over the minimum BAC, are required to enter into an alcohol program as a condition of having their suspended license reinstated.

Someone found to be driving while high can face the same program mandate under condition of reinstatement as well.

In both cases the person was abusing the drug by putting others at risk and state action is reasonable in my view. What will no longer happen, in CO at least, is some one being forced into rehab they don't need on the basis of what's in their back pocket.

No, gangs aren't going to lose a customer base here. ...Besides, legalizing pot is a boon for the gangs.

Legal pot is as much of a boon to its current illegal traffickers as the end of alcohol prohibition was to 1920s bootleggers.

Besides, this law doesn't stop the gang traffic in large supply and demand markets. This law legalizes weed but you can't buy a pound of the stuff at the local market.

The only reason someone would buy in bulk would be to sell it themselves and with the illegal market going the way of the dodo in CO that's a rather poor investment.

When prohibition ended alcohol production became a business like any other that no longer involved violence, as modern prohibition ends we will have the same outcome again.

 

[BlunderAngel]

Edit. Odd.
I wrote my remarks in the light bulb thread and when it committed to post it appeared in this one.

Well, now that I'm here.
This law will insure I'll never hear John Denver sing "Rocky Mountain High" the same way again.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_WyUwNPOzQ



I do agree, this legalization is going to make a boon industry top to bottom in Colorado.

 

[MarkSB]

• Studies show that THC damages the hippocampus, a critical part of the brain in terms of learning and memory

Actually, it only has temporary effects on the brain, not permanent. Stop smoking, the effects go away.

AFAIK this has not been shown to be true with long term use. I haven't read all the research on the subject, but some of the studies I've seen have indicated that memory damage was found in long term users. The problem is, the memory loss is difficult to attribute to the marijuana use alone due to the presence of confounding factors (marijuana users often use other drugs which skews the results, and there is natural memory loss which occurs due to aging, ect.)

Also, I would imagine that use during adolesence (when most pot smokers start) could have a more profound and lasting effect. As I said earlier, marijuana is an addictive substance so I don't think there can be much doubt that it affects the way a person thinks and the decisions they make.

• Amotivational syndrome

I love that one. Lazy people are lazy, studious people will be studious. Pot does not cause either. I know a LOT of pot heads (ironic, since I do not like doing it or smelling it, but that is neither here nor there), some of whom are college grads with degrees and good jobs and some of whom are nobodies. But again, it had nothing to do with pot either way.

I'd be willing to bet that you will find a significantly smaller percentage of pot smokers in professional positions than you will in other occupations.

 

[Fenny the Fox]

I'd be willing to bet that you will find a significantly smaller percentage of pot smokers in professional positions than you will in other occupations.

Kinda goes back to what I said about the pot isn't the reason for them being lazy or studious - that is up to motivation of the person. I would guess that this would be the case as well, that not as many in professional fields do use marijuana - not because of effects thereof, but because they are smart enough from the get go to not use it since it could cost them a good job, even a career.

Reminds me of a friend, he smoked a LOT during undergrad but stopped altogether now that he has entered law school. He feels it could, potentially, hinder his productivity and cash flow -a huge part of the reasoning behind his quitting now- while he is taking 20+ hours of courses at a good law program.

Has more to do with underlying personality and intellect, overall, than drug effects.

 

[Skaloop]

I'd be willing to bet that you will find a significantly smaller percentage of pot smokers in professional positions than you will in other occupations.

You're probably right. Now you'll just need to demonstrate causation.

 

[MarkSB]

You're probably right. Now you'll just need to demonstrate causation.

Oh I never meant that it implied causation (or rather, I know that a correlation doesn't establish causation). But based off observation and personal experience, I think that an addict would be more likely to let their aspirations fall by the wayside than a non-addict would. Compared to the drug, everything else takes a back seat / becomes a second priority.

Again, you could debate whether it is the drug that is the cause of that, or the underlying personality traits that are more common among drug addicts, but personally I find that to be a fruitless debate. The bottom line is "Is it worth the risk?" and I would say no.

People may think AODA treatment is a bunch of garb, and some of it might be - but one thing I've found to be true is that the drug prevents the addict from facing their problems, keeps them from "growing up" in a sense. Perhaps there are users out there who don't use for such reasons (to numb the senses, escape, ect.), but personally I think they would be in the minority.

Things like that (emotional effects, personality effects, effects on choices, ect.) are difficult to quantify, its not something you can really examine with an empirical study.

If Colorado wants to legalize it then so be it, but as I said I think it sends the wrong message. Especially when bad information begins to be circulated because of it. I could never in good conscience tell someone that I thought weed was harmless, or close to harmless.

And sorry Skaloop, most of my post wasn't in response to yours - just got to rambling a little bit there.

 

[Skaloop]

Oh I never meant that it implied causation (or rather, I know that a correlation doesn't establish causation). But based off observation and personal experience, I think that an addict would be more likely to let their aspirations fall by the wayside than a non-addict would. Compared to the drug, everything else takes a back seat / becomes a second priority.

OK, but you initially said "pot smokers", not "addicts". Plenty of people, successful and otherwise, smoke pot without being addicted to it.

I don't disagree that an addiction can interfere with personal advancement and success. But most pot smokers are not addicted to pot.

 

[MarkSB]

OK, but you initially said "pot smokers", not "addicts". Plenty of people, successful and otherwise, smoke pot without being addicted to it.

I don't disagree that an addiction can interfere with personal advancement and success. But most pot smokers are not addicted to pot.

Based on experience, I don't believe that to be true. There may be statistics that say otherwise, but I've never reallly looked into them. All I know is that a majority of the people I saw using it, used it on a daily basis. I've seen very few "occasional" smokers, and many who used despite the consequences.