Colorado recreational marijuana retailers begin stocking shelves

[MarkSB]

You could drink water or soda and not get a buzz. Most or all people drink beer or other hard liquor to get buzzed or drunk. I have never met a person that like to drink beer or liquor, that didn't want a buzz. So I would believe the sole reason to drink is to get buzzed or drunk. Also you could smoke a puff or 2 of pot and not get buzzed. But I sure for most people the purpose is to get high.

Believe it or not there are people who have a beer or two without the intention of getting buzzed or drunk.

I think a good reason to legalize it, is so people can freely smoke pot legally. The government has their own corrupt reason.

Then alcohol and cigarettes should be illegal then.

I hear less harmful than cigarettes and alcohol.

I'm not here to argue that cigarettes and alcohol are harmless, but relying solely on anecdotal evidence is usually a poor method by which to assess a situation. At the very least marijuana smoke contains many of the same carcinogens that are also found in cigarette smoke. And factor in the nuerological effects of marijuana, although the extent of those effects is debatable.

On top of that, there is a large percentage of marijuana smokers who also smoke cigarettes, so its not like the 2 don't often go hand in hand.

 

[Hetta]

Alcohol is the most destructive drug out there. Far more dangerous and damaging that class A drugs even. I wouldn't want to smoke cannabis (BTDT in my long ago youth) but that doesn't mean that others shouldn't - particularly those that need it for medical relief.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20101101/alcohol-more-harmful-than-crack-or-heroin

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/david-nutt-alcohol-more-dangerous-than-crack/

Heroin, crack and crystal meth are deadliest to the individual user, the study showed, but when their wider social effects are taken into account, alcohol is the most damaging, followed by heroin and crack.

Experts said alcohol scored so high because it's so widely used and has devastating consequences not only for drinkers but for those around them. Excessive drinking damages nearly all organ systems, and is also connected to higher death rates. It's also involved in a greater percentage of crime than most other drugs, including heroin.

 

[MarkSB]

Alcohol is the most destructive drug out there. Far more dangerous and damaging that class A drugs even.

Please take the time to actually read the articles you posted. Part of the ranking was to asses the negative impact that the drug has on society as a whole, and in that light alcohol ranks very high because it is so widely used. They did not say that alcohol was the most harmful to the individual user and they certainly did NOT say that alcohol was more dangerous than heroin or crack cocaine.

From the WebMD article:

Alcohol was found to be the most harmful drug to society and the fourth most harmful drug to users.

The way you've interpreted it is as if to say that we would be better off having bars that serve crack cocaine on every street corner rather than bars that serve alcohol, and that is not what that study says.

I never once said that I thought excessive alcohol consumption was harmless, only that I think there isn't much good that would come out of marijuana legalization, and I think that giving it a stamp of approval sends the wrong message.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Right, and I think that is a legitimate argument. However (needless to say), different drugs have different effects. You can have a beer after work and not get drunk or even buzzed, but the sole purpose of smoking weed is to get high.

The effects are completely different and it has been shown that the effects from alcohol are far more impairing than the effects of marijuana. Simply put, alcohol is a lot more dangerous than marijuana.

I just don't see what would be gained by all out legalization, but like I said that's just my viewpoint. From the government's side of it, the driving force behind its legalization seems to be the increased revenues it will bring in, and I don't see that as a good reason for legalization.

Do you think it's a better solution to just keep throwing money at the problem with hopes that someday, people will just stop smoking?

From the other side if it, there's the argument for personal freedom, whose proponents often use the "a drug is a drug" argument. But my question to you is, how far would you be willing to take that line of reasoning? Should we then legalize opiates?

They should be decriminalized.

Methamphetamines?

They should be decriminalized.

Please don't think that I am arguing that marijuana legalization is a slippery slope, I am just trying to point out that that line of reasoning applies to all drugs.

Of course. I think drug addicts shouldn't be seen or thought of as criminals. They certainly shouldn't be treated as such.

They don't need prison, they need rehab. Which in many cases cost the taxpayers less and it gets to the source of the problem.

Apart from that you might argue that marijuana use is harmless, but I don't think that's true. It may lie on the "less dangerous" side of the drug spectrum, but is definitely not harmless.

I don't think any sensible person would argue that smoking marijuana isn't harmful to your health. Just like smoking anything is harmful, so is marijuana. However, the main chemical that gets you high found in weed, THC, is actually quite harmless.

But let me ask you, take a handful of Tylenol and tell me that's not harmful to your health.

 

[Hetta]

Please take the time to actually read the articles you posted. Part of the ranking was to asses the negative impact that the drug has on society as a whole, and in that light alcohol ranks very high because it is so widely used. They did not say that alcohol was the most harmful to the individual user and they certainly did NOT say that alcohol was more dangerous than heroin or crack cocaine.

The way you've interpreted it is as if to say that we would be better off having bars that serve crack cocaine on every street corner rather than bars that serve alcohol, and that is not what that study says.

I never once said that I thought excessive alcohol consumption was harmless, only that I think there isn't much good that would come out of marijuana legalization, and I think that giving it a stamp of approval sends the wrong message.

The bolded is a huge strawman argument. Never even came close to any of that.

I have studied drug use and abuse extensively but don't have material to hand - and also dealing with flu right now - so I lazily googled some articles. I would rather see these places open with access to Marijuana than more bars, that is for sure.

 

[Cearbhall]

Right, and I think that is a legitimate argument. However (needless to say), different drugs have different effects. You can have a beer after work and not get drunk or even buzzed, but the sole purpose of smoking weed is to get high.

Wait, is there another reason that people drink beer? Are there actually people who like the taste? I thought it was all about feeling mellow.

 

[MarkSB]

The effects are completely different and it has been shown that the effects from alcohol are far more impairing than the effects of marijuana. Simply put, alcohol is a lot more dangerous than marijuana.

Do you think it's a better solution to just keep throwing money at the problem with hopes that someday, people will just stop smoking?

They should be decriminalized.

They should be decriminalized.

Of course. I think drug addicts shouldn't be seen or thought of as criminals. They certainly shouldn't be treated as such.

They don't need prison, they need rehab. Which in many cases cost the taxpayers less and it gets to the source of the problem.


I don't think any sensible person would argue that smoking marijuana isn't harmful to your health. Just like smoking anything is harmful, so is marijuana. However, the main chemical that gets you high found in weed, THC, is actually quite harmless.

But let me ask you, take a handful of Tylenol and tell me that's not harmful to your health.

I don't even know why I bother. Tylenol is not an addictive drug in and of itself, THC is. Tip back 5 gallons of water within an hour and tell me that's not harmful to your health. But we're not going to tell people to stop drinking water, are we?

I don't have the time to address your entire post, but AFAIK there is not any conclusive evidence that shows whether or not THC is harmless. In the developmental stages of adolescence I think there is a greater possibility of it having long term nuerological affects. Apart from the physical effects, there are also social/psychological effects, or what I would call spiritual effects. As said, THC is an addictive substance and as such its use most certainly has an impact on the decisions a person makes and potentially the person that they become. From my experiences I've found that drug addiction is usually an escape and a symptom of a much deeper problem.

I find it contradictory that most of the people here who are on the side of legalization said that it doesn't mean the government/society is approving of its use, yet the arguments being put forth are that marijuana/THC is not all too harmful. That certainly seems like approval to me, or at least a dismissal of the significance of the adverse effects.

 

[Skaloop]

Wait, is there another reason that people drink beer? Are there actually people who like the taste?

Yes. Just as there are people who will drink a Coke because they want a sweet drink and not for the caffeine. I love beer. It's delicious if you get the right sort. I'll drink beer with no intention of feeling buzzed or drunk or anything like that just to enjoy the flavour of it.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Yes. Just as there are people who will drink a Coke because they want a sweet drink and not for the caffeine. I love beer. It's delicious if you get the right sort. I'll drink beer with no intention of feeling buzzed or drunk or anything like that just to enjoy the flavour of it.

I agree this is possible as beer like wine though not readily distinguishable to some with indiscriminate tastes, has certain subtle qualities of flavor enhancement for the pallet's ability to enjoy flavor in both the beverage and any food that might be consumed along with it. Additionally the water that comprises much of the drink has beneficial qualities and beer is actually somewhat nutritious. All of course when used in moderation. Coffee, on the other hand, is undrinkable, unless one is addicted to the caffeine in it.

 

[WatchmansMoon]

I'm from Colorado and was not in favor of this. But I know there are many who would disagree.

 

[Skaloop]

I agree this is possible as beer like wine though not readily distinguishable to some with indiscriminate tastes, has certain subtle qualities of flavor enhancement for the pallet's ability to enjoy flavor in both the beverage and any food that might be consumed along with it. Additionally the water that comprises much of the drink has beneficial qualities and beer is actually somewhat nutritious. All of course when used in moderation. Coffee, on the other hand, is undrinkable, unless one is addicted to the caffeine in it.

Interesting. I love coffee, but rarely drink it due to the caffeine. I enjoy the flavour, but not the effects.

Not to say that I don't sometimes drink coffee for the caffeine, or that I don't sometimes drink beer for the alcohol. But I can still enjoy both even without those parts.

 

[Glass*Soul]

Interesting. I love coffee, but rarely drink it due to the caffeine. I enjoy the flavour, but not the effects.

Me too. It can be chocolatey, fruity, smokey... And it smells wonderful freshly ground or freshly brewing.

 

[MarkSB]

The bolded is a huge strawman argument. Never even came close to any of that.

Alcohol is the most destructive drug out there. Far more dangerous and damaging that class A drugs even.

It sure seems like you did to me, but maybe I'm missing something. My apologies if I misinterpreted your post.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Me too. It can be chocolatey, fruity, smokey... And it smells wonderful freshly ground or freshly brewing.

I was somewhat teasing about the coffee because I personally cannot abide the taste of it and if it is put into any dish it ruins the dish for me. I agree, however, that the smell of fresh ground or fresh brewed coffee is wonderful.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

December 29,2013

DENVER - The world's first state-licensed marijuana retailers, catering to Colorado's newly legal recreational market for pot, are stocking their shelves ahead of a New Year's grand opening that supporters and detractors alike see as a turning point in America's drug culture.


CBS News Article

Utterly foolish of Colorado to do this. Letting the Genie out of the bottle so Colorado can put more drug induced Drivers on the road resulting in more deaths and serious accidents...is about as irresponsible and foolhearty as it comes. It is highly unethical of any State to do so, and in fact, hypocritical because Colorado no doubt discourages drunk and drug induced Drivers from operating an Automobile (as if People wont do this when legally stoned) .

Also, think of upcoming Generations in Colorado who will be duped into the dangerous lifestyle ...as if rampant sexual hedonism wasn't enough for our impressionable Youth (and reprobate minded Adults) to have as a favorite pastime contributing to the wanton murdering of 4,000 developing American Babies per day nationwide.

It is a clear example of how our Nation is quickly gravitating toward the moral cesspool of no return ... one of many examples of getting further and further away from God and his loving protective moral mandates for a Nation to abide by. And....SHAME to all evangelical Preachers who have the audacity to say that 'America is on the rebound' and other such misleading fallacious chow chips.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

Interesting. I love coffee, but rarely drink it due to the caffeine. I enjoy the flavour, but not the effects.

Not to say that I don't sometimes drink coffee for the caffeine, or that I don't sometimes drink beer for the alcohol. But I can still enjoy both even without those parts.

I could enjoy coffee without the caffeine, but probably not beer without the alcohol. Its taste really isn't something that I appreciate that much, although a good IPA or Sweetwater Blue could be non-alcoholic and still hold some appeal for me.

At any rate, I don't see anything particularly wrong with what Colorado's doing. Marijuana doesn't have a very high addiction risk or toxicity (it's lower than alcohol on both fronts). Really, the main risk would be the increase in smoking related lung diseases, and the possibility of people driving high. Both of those are already problems with legal drugs, though. With softer drugs like nicotine, marijuana, or alcohol (the latter being really questionable on how "soft" it is), we really do just need to let people make their own decisions. If someone chooses to use it in moderation and as a treat at the end of the month, then good for them. If someone chooses to ruin their life by treating it like it's the meaning of their existence, then that's their own fault. With drugs that aren't inherently too dangerous to legalize, we really just need to let adults be responsible or irresponsible. The state is there to protect us, but not usually from making simple bad decisions. Freedom means the freedom to mess up.

 

[GondwanaLand]

Believe it or not there are people who have a beer or two without the intention of getting buzzed or drunk.



I'm not here to argue that cigarettes and alcohol are harmless, but relying solely on anecdotal evidence is usually a poor method by which to assess a situation. At the very least marijuana smoke contains many of the same carcinogens that are also found in cigarette smoke.

It does contain some of the same (of course this is negated if you use a vaporizor for pot, which is what most people I know use). But it lacks some of the worst and most harmful carcinogens that are found in cigarette smoke. In addition, the carcinogens in smoke start off by causing irritation and inflammation that leads to the cancers, and THC in marijuana counteracts much of the inflammation and negates much of the carcinogens.

In fact, it has been shown that some compounds in cannabis kill numerous cancer types including lung cancer, breast and prostate, leukemia and lymphoma, and skin cancer.

And again, the growing use of vaporizers pretty much kills the carcinogen argument.

 

[GondwanaLand]

I don't even know why I bother. Tylenol is not an addictive drug in and of itself, THC is. Tip back 5 gallons of water within an hour and tell me that's not harmful to your health. But we're not going to tell people to stop drinking water, are we?

I don't have the time to address your entire post, but AFAIK there is not any conclusive evidence that shows whether or not THC is harmless. In the developmental stages of adolescence I think there is a greater possibility of it having long term nuerological affects. Apart from the physical effects, there are also social/psychological effects, or what I would call spiritual effects. As said, THC is an addictive substance and as such its use most certainly has an impact on the decisions a person makes and potentially the person that they become. From my experiences I've found that drug addiction is usually an escape and a symptom of a much deeper problem.

I find it contradictory that most of the people here who are on the side of legalization said that it doesn't mean the government/society is approving of its use, yet the arguments being put forth are that marijuana/THC is not all too harmful. That certainly seems like approval to me, or at least a dismissal of the significance of the adverse effects.

Research has shown the overall addiction potential for cannabis to be less than for caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, cocaine or heroin.

 

[Sarah Sarah]

True.
And yet the inducement to plunge headlong into that immoral cesspool is, as always, money!

Think of the insurance rates that will go up! The rehab. that will be mandated for drivers caught DUI and under the influence of pot.
The licenses for new retailers, the insurance for their shops. The advertising, all of it. Plus of course the economy will benefit because there are people that will seek to relocate just for this perk.
Amazing as that sounds.

The highway to Hades paved with green.

Utterly foolish of Colorado to do this. Letting the Genie out of the bottle so Colorado can put more drug induced Drivers on the road resulting in more deaths and serious accidents...is about as irresponsible and foolhearty as it comes. It is highly unethical of any State to do so, and in fact, hypocritical because Colorado no doubt discourages drunk and drug induced Drivers from operating an Automobile (as if People wont do this when legally stoned) .

Also, think of upcoming Generations in Colorado who will be duped into the dangerous lifestyle ...as if rampant sexual hedonism wasn't enough for our impressionable Youth (and reprobate minded Adults) to have as a favorite pastime contributing to the wanton murdering of 4,000 developing American Babies per day nationwide.

It is a clear example of how our Nation is quickly gravitating toward the moral cesspool of no return ... one of many examples of getting further and further away from God and his loving protective moral mandates for a Nation to abide by. And....SHAME to all evangelical Preachers who have the audacity to say that 'America is on the rebound' and other such misleading fallacious chow chips.

 

[Fenny the Fox]

I like this line (from the article):



Doesn't that seem a little... counterproductive?

How, exactly, is it counterproductive?