Circumcision and legality.

[Reeniee]

There was an attempt to ban circumcision of infants for non medical reasons in Germany in 2012, and I'm not too sure what happened about it, other than there wasn't much noise about it afterwards. Apparently it might be being attempted in Denmark soon. Circumcision divide between Denmark and Israel - News - The Copenhagen Post The author of this article doesn't come across as particularly unbiased on the subject, but raises some interesting points. I guess it's a case of religious (and cultural) freedoms clashing with the right of the child to be protected. What are people's thoughts on the whole issue and how can a conclusion be reached, especially if being against this type of circumcision is seen as being anti-Semitic or anti-Muslim?

 

[QueSeraSera]

I'm for the banning of medically unnecessary circumcision of minor boy children .It has nothing to do with anti anything . Its a barbaric practice and its a violation of the child's right to remain in tact and full .

 

[Gadarene]

I'm all for calling it what it is - male genital mutilation, akin to FGM - and like FGM, it should be banned.

Accusations of this opinion being anti-semitic / anti-Islamic can go hang. We've already banned FGM in the west, and that is largely practiced among Muslims in various parts of the world.

Any society that bans FGM has no cogent argument against permitting MGM.

 

[selfinflikted]

If a man wants to be circumcised, that should be his decision. Not his parents'.

 

[KitKatMatt]

Let the guy choose if he wants it or not for himself. Once the foreskin is gone, it's gone. You can't get it back (though you can spend a lot of money trying but those nerves won't grow back).

 

[QueSeraSera]

It amazes me that its even a question . It really does.

 

[Paradoxum]

It should banned. If some cult came up with it now we would all find it absurd and vile.

I doubt many (or any) men would have it done in adulthood... and I think that partly shows how bad it is. If men who can consent wouldn't choose it, it can't be right to force it on a child who can't defend itself.

We shouldn't be cutting bits off children. It is their body and they can't get them back when they are old enough to make their own choices. As far as I know, the foreskin isn't just a useless bit that makes no difference either. It affects sexual stuff. No one had a right to irreversibly mutilate another persons body like that.

 

[andy b]

all unnecessary surgical procedures should be banned on children i deem it as assault.

 

[keith99]

If one is saying that it is OK if done by a doctor and not Ok when done by a Rabbi then it sure looks to me like an attempt to suppress that faith.

This is a procedure that was standard medical practice for decades.

And many of the current laws and proposals are aimed not at the practice but only when performed in accordance with Jewish law.

 

[QueSeraSera]

As far as I know, the foreskin isn't just a useless bit that makes no difference either. It affects sexual stuff. No one had a right to irreversibly mutilate another persons body like that.

It isn't useless .It protects the glans.

 

[QueSeraSera]

If one is saying that it is OK if done by a doctor and not Ok when done by a Rabbi then it sure looks to me like an attempt to suppress that faith.

This is a procedure that was standard medical practice for decades.

And many of the current laws and proposals are aimed not at the practice but only when performed in accordance with Jewish law.

It shouldn't be legal period By Dr. or Rabbi .

 

[andy b]

If one is saying that it is OK if done by a doctor and not Ok when done by a Rabbi then it sure looks to me like an attempt to suppress that faith.

This is a procedure that was standard medical practice for decades.

And many of the current laws and proposals are aimed not at the practice but only when performed in accordance with Jewish law.

im saying its not okay by anyone period...ive never quite understood what having your bits lopped off down below has to do with religion or faith ...im an uneducated man of faith does anyone have a decent answer to this as im curious to why its done any way.

 

[KitKatMatt]

We don't allow the nicking of the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] for religious reasons, so I don't see a problem with making routine infant circumcision illegal for religious practice either.

 

[keith99]

im saying its not okay by anyone period...ive never quite understood what having your bits lopped off down below has to do with religion or faith ...im an uneducated man of faith does anyone have a decent answer to this as im curious to why its done any way.

There are significant disease risks associated with retaining the foreskin. My gut feeling is that these risks have been reduced significantly by modern hygienic practices.

If you look at a lot of the Jewish Law it correlates rather well with health risks. Pork if at all underdone had huge risks. Shellfish and other bottom dwellers were a significant health risk when raw sewage ended up in the Sea. And in a society where bathing daily was an unheard of luxury what gets left uncleaned with an intact foreskin was a significant danger.

And making something a religious command is a good way to makes sure the common people follow it.

 

[andy b]

Nice reply its a pity the same commitment isn't made to goodwill

 

[keith99]

Nice reply its a pity the same commitment isn't made to goodwill

Actually I've been told by educated people I tend to trust that the Jewish offerings were just that, or as close as one can get. What was offered at the alter was not then thrown away, it was distributed and eaten.

You can see an echo of that in Paul's words about eating meat offered to Idols.

Of course it is easier to enforce an action that a feeling.

 

[Reeniee]

Sorry if I wasn't too clear with my original post, I'm quite heavily against circumcision of infants (or I guess any minor) for non-medical reasons. That said, I find it awkward to be saying about other religions "you shouldn't do these things." when I believe in religious freedom, and it's easy to say "Rites and rituals that aren't part of my religion should be banned." I'm not sure. But instinctively I'm very against circumcision for most of the reasons stated (It's barbaric, and the child has the right to an un-tampered with body.) Maybe that makes me a hypocrite? I'm not sure.

 

[Paradoxum]

Sorry if I wasn't too clear with my original post, I'm quite heavily against circumcision of infants (or I guess any minor) for non-medical reasons. That said, I find it awkward to be saying about other religions "you shouldn't do these things." when I believe in religious freedom, and it's easy to say "Rites and rituals that aren't part of my religion should be banned." I'm not sure. But instinctively I'm very against circumcision for most of the reasons stated (It's barbaric, and the child has the right to an un-tampered with body.) Maybe that makes me a hypocrite? I'm not sure.

Religious freedom doesn't give people freedom to do things that otherwise would be banned. Religious violation doesn't make the violation more okay. We would condemn (and ban) child sacrifice, and we should condemn this too. We ban female circumcision, we should ban this too.

Anything can be part of a religion, but that doesn't justify everything.

 

[andy b]

Actually I've been told by educated people I tend to trust that the Jewish offerings were just that, or as close as one can get. What was offered at the alter was not then thrown away, it was distributed and eaten.

You can see an echo of that in Paul's words about eating meat offered to Idols.

Of course it is easier to enforce an action that a feeling.

there couldn't have been much to go round..is that joke in poor taste ...get it

 

[Reeniee]

Religious freedom doesn't give people freedom to do things that otherwise would be banned. Religious violation doesn't make the violation more okay. We would condemn (and ban) child sacrifice, and we should condemn this too. We ban female circumcision, we should ban this too.

Anything can be part of a religion, but that doesn't justify everything.

Whilst I agree with this, what does that leave religious freedom as? Freedom to do stuff that's legal anyway?