Churches Loosing Members.

[rosiecotton]

To steal a line from Forrest Gump. Non-denom churches are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. I've been to a number of non-denom churches in my area. Some were very conservative and others were really Emergent churches flying under the banner of Non-Denom. That's one good thing about denominational churches. If you go to a Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalian, Lutheran, etc. church, you know what to typically expect. It takes a lot of the guesswork out of finding a new church or a good church to attend, because you can find out beforehand what they believe. That's simply not the case with a non-denom church because there is no agreement upon the scriptures within the wide-range of non-denom churches. You could easily find a non-denom church that denies the trinity and ten more that affirm it. There's no unity among the non-denom churches. Each one is an island unto itself.

But you should be able to find out what a church believes. Most churches have a web site where they post their beliefs. If not, you should be able to ask the leaders the beliefs of the church on different issues.
I'm our church secretary and I've had people call or email, asking what our church's beliefs are.
You are right though, there are a lot of differences between non-denom churches.

 

[Zecryphon]

But you should be able to find out what a church believes. Most churches have a web site where they post their beliefs.

Most do post what they believe on their websites. It will be either in the "What we believe" section or in their Statement of Faith. But what you typically find there is the standard stuff. Like: We believe the scriptures are the inspired word of God, without error or contradiction. We believe Jesus Christ is God's Son. We believe He was born of the Virgin Mary, etc. Standard Christian teachings. What you won't find are statements about the things that typically cause division in the churches, baptism, infant baptism, age of accountability, view on Communion: symbolic vs. real presence. That's the stuff that people need to know about.

If not, you should be able to ask the leaders the beliefs of the church on different issues.

It depends on the size of the church and how many ministers you actually have on staff. In a small church, piece of cake, you have one minister and one answer. In my last church, which was a mini-mega non-denom church with 10,000+ members we had over 25 different pastors, each one was the head of a different department. You'd have a minister of Men's Ministry. You'd have a minister of the Music Department, etc. So if I asked the same question to say 3 different pastors, I'd get three different answers.

There was very little consensus on the secondary issues in that church. Take for instance the senior pastor. He was Calvinist in his beliefs, yet the youth pastor was Arminian. You'd have to dig to find this out, as I did, but you have two radically different theologies being taught to two different groups of people.

I served in the youth ministry as a volunteer and I did hear Arminianism being taught there, and heard Calvinism being preached in the adult worship services. That's a good way to confuse future congregants.

I'm our church secretary and I've had people call or email, asking what our church's beliefs are.
You are right though, there are a lot of differences between non-denom churches.

Yeah, non-denom churches have to be as general as possible and try not to get too specific or too dogmatic when it comes to their doctrines on secondary issues. There are very few "official" church positions on any issue. It has to be that way to keep everybody who is going to that church happy. If a non-denom gets too specific on the secondary doctrine, and the congregation sees it, a lot of the congregants will leave and that will be seen as a bad thing to the typical non-denom church where the number of congregants determines your success in doing God's work.

 

[Starcrystal]

Again...please note posted Mod Hat Warning.

The OP is not addressing tithing. Please feel free to start another thread should you like to discuss this topic further.

thanks again...

I posted that second post yesterday while you were posting yours so I hadn't seen it.
Honestly though, the OP is about churches losing members. A natural part of such a discussion would be some of the reasons why. I know for a fact that some churches have lost members because of their tithing messages. Actually I should say they OVERDO messages on tithes to the point it becomes burdensome. My wife and I are not the only ones to have left a church because of this. Therefore one reason people have left churches is due to this particular issue...

But, I agree we should stay focussed on the OP and not get too sidetracked on any one reason why people leave churches.

The post I originally replied to says it all: the sheep are not being fed.

So it's true that when we hear someone is "bored with church" it is not a personal dislike of the music or sermons, but rather people wanting to be fed more than milk and baby food. When people first meet the LORD thay may need the bay stuff. But as months and especially years go by they need solid food. Few churches are offering solid food. I've been in churches where there may be 50 or so people in attendence and every single one a regular member who claims to be born again. If the pastor KNOWS this, (and he does) why does he preach a salvation message based on the "Roman road" and John 3:16, then ask people to come forward and be saved?
Is it possible he doesn't know anything else to preach? maybe he's missed his calleg and should be an evangelist instead of a pastor.

One other thing... a lot of leaders don't have a clue about spiritual warfare. They either don't believe in it, don't do it, or they overdo it and see demons behind every church member that need cast out. Truth is we are in a battle and the sword of the spirit is an offensive weapon to defeat the powers of darkness. rarely is it weilded at all and often when it is, it is weilded incorrectly. Yes, I also left a church in 1990 because their idea of spiritual warfare was "hack em up and drive em out..." claiming some Christians had as many as 90 demons living inside of them. This sort of thing scares a lot of people, and it is also a lie.

Anyways, I was just giving some reasons why people left churches. I know some people leave churches to go back into sin, but I've seen a lot over the years who remain strong in their faith but have left churches because of sin in the church or false doctrines and practices of men.

 

[Starcrystal]

but gosh, lets discuss all the other more damaging misteachings going on in the postmodern churches - ie. those who deny a virgin birth, focus on prosperity/wealth, promote that all people are saved, there's no hell, philosophy over scripture, new ageism, Universal faith, etc. etc.

Imho, tithing is real low on the totem pole.

Ughhh, yes - the reason I didn't focus on those is because some of those churches are HUGE! Tens of thousands of members because they are "feel good" churches. The itching ears syndromes. How many of the people who attend those churches are even born again by the Spirit?

That's why I chose to speak on other issues that would affect serious Christians who are born again. For intance the Methodists used to be pretty conservative, believed in holiness, etc (John Wesley type methodists)... imagine the shock when that denom started ordaining homosexuals?

And, OK, I'll admit the tithing issue is probably low on the totem pole but it IS there, even if it is at or near the bottom.
But, as it's been said, we shouldn't focus on any one particular issue in this regard so I'll say no more about it.

Here's another one: LEGALISM. Could go along with controlling preachers, but strict legalism binds people up and has nothing to do with Spirit. You think you're doing right by following all these rules (No dancing, no TV, women in dresses only, no makeup or jewelry of any kind, men short hair, women don't cut hair... blah blah blah. After awhile of this (and I did this for a couple years) you realise God is distant and you've traded the living Word for the traditions of men. Solution: leave that church....

after awhile you seem to run out of churches - this one wants to control me, this one says it's OK to be gay, this one doesn't believe there's a devil trying to oppress, this one believes I'm possessed by all sorts of demons... and the "you know what" as well and much more...

At least I know with the Scriptures, the ability to pray and also to HEAR God, and a beautiful natural setting where I can be alone with God, I will have a relationship with God that is unfettered by the hands of men.

 

[Rajni]

Ughhh, yes - the reason I didn't focus on those is because some of those churches are HUGE! Tens of thousands of members because they are "feel good" churches. The itching ears syndromes. How many of the people who attend those churches are even born again by the Spirit?

That's why I chose to speak on other issues that would affect serious Christians who are born again. For intance the Methodists used to be pretty conservative, believed in holiness, etc (John Wesley type methodists)... imagine the shock when that denom started ordaining homosexuals?

And, OK, I'll admit the tithing issue is probably low on the totem pole but it IS there, even if it is at or near the bottom.
But, as it's been said, we shouldn't focus on any one particular issue in this regard so I'll say no more about it.

Here's another one: LEGALISM. Could go along with controlling preachers, but strict legalism binds people up and has nothing to do with Spirit. You think you're doing right by following all these rules (No dancing, no TV, women in dresses only, no makeup or jewelry of any kind, men short hair, women don't cut hair... blah blah blah. After awhile of this (and I did this for a couple years) you realise God is distant and you've traded the living Word for the traditions of men. Solution: leave that church....

after awhile you seem to run out of churches - this one wants to control me, this one says it's OK to be gay, this one doesn't believe there's a devil trying to oppress, this one believes I'm possessed by all sorts of demons... and the "you know what" as well and much more...

At least I know with the Scriptures, the ability to pray and also to HEAR God, and a beautiful natural setting where I can be alone with God, I will have a relationship with God that is unfettered by the hands of men.

Amen. Some of the most edifying times I've had have been when I'm alone, just the Lord and me, and my Bible. When we lived in an apartment, I had a place set up in a walk-in closet for my devotional times (kind of necessary if one wants to be alone in a 2-bedroom apartment with a husband and two kids, LOL!). It was, quite literally, my "prayer closet".

 

[BustedFlat]

What a church should be. It is less than 2 min. but it says it all:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnCw_AgLHyY​

 

[Cris413]

What a church should be. It is less than 2 min. but it says it all:​

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnCw_AgLHyY​

YEAH!!

AMEN!!​

 

[Nadiine]

I think that was a great segment on what a church should be!
For sure there are some bad ones out there (possibly more now than ever before?) but I found a church that fits this description - and we've never been more pleased in attending.

 

[rosiecotton]

Yeah, non-denom churches have to be as general as possible and try not to get too specific or too dogmatic when it comes to their doctrines on secondary issues. There are very few "official" church positions on any issue. It has to be that way to keep everybody who is going to that church happy. If a non-denom gets too specific on the secondary doctrine, and the congregation sees it, a lot of the congregants will leave and that will be seen as a bad thing to the typical non-denom church where the number of congregants determines your success in doing God's work.

That may be true of many non-denom, but not all. Our church is part of the Restoration Movement and they do state their specific beliefs on the 'secondary' issues (such as baptism).

 

[Starcrystal]

What a church should be. It is less than 2 min. but it says it all:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnCw_AgLHyY​

Good one. I especially took note of the part that said many churches offer Jesus as a "get out of hell free card." How true. It's like they try to scare you into salvation..... yes, we are to save some with fear pulling them out of the fire... but on some have compassion also. Balance.

Amen. Some of the most edifying times I've had have been when I'm alone, just the Lord and me, and my Bible. When we lived in an apartment, I had a place set up in a walk-in closet for my devotional times (kind of necessary if one wants to be alone in a 2-bedroom apartment with a husband and two kids, LOL!). It was, quite literally, my "prayer closet".

I had one of those in my 1 bedroom apt. in Alaska. The closet was about 4 X 7 feet with shelves on one side. I set up some pictures and candles and stuff there and lay a throw rug on the floor. Actually in that apt I had several deep experiences with the LORD. There are also a few places in the woods where I was able to have very intimate communication with God... Here's a couple:

"The LORDS Church..."

I often stood on that ledge on the left, the one that looks like a facial profile. Very powerful place. After all the Spirit is like rivers of living water....

Me in one of my other spots...

....Which is by the creek halfway up this mountain:

 

[Zecryphon]

That may be true of many non-denom, but not all. Our church is part of the Restoration Movement and they do state their specific beliefs on the 'secondary' issues (such as baptism).

That's good to see. I wish more Non-Denoms did. It would save people a lot of time in searching for a new church. Another thing people should do who are looking for a new church home is make an appointment with the senior pastor and get him to tell you what the church believes.

 

[IisJustMe]

That's good to see. I wish more Non-Denoms did. It would save people a lot of time in searching for a new church. Another thing people should do who are looking for a new church home is make an appointment with the senior pastor and get him to tell you what the church believes.

Good luck with that. Senior pastors are so busy today, it might be a month before he manages to find a slot for you. Many churches have a "get acquainted" luncheon once a month where they tell you what the church is about, how they worship, what they believe, what ministries are available to become involved in, etc. The smaller churches might be able to do that in a one-on-one sit-down with the senior pastor, but not the bigger ones, even the "smaller" bigger ones with 500-600 members.

The OP on this thread (two weeks ago now) said the Methodist, Lutheran, and Presbyterian congregations were shrinking in her town, and that's a trend nationwide, particularly for those denominations but also for Anglicans, Episcopals and other liturgical churches. The Pew Foundation says the only reason Catholics are not experiencing a shrinking effect at the local parish level is the influx of Hispanic immigrants who are keeping the numbers up for the Catholic churches. But the question is, why?

Christian pollster George Barna is not among the negative opinion holder who say it is because the church is failing at its mission. Barna says it is an indication of a different kind of spiritual awakening.

One in Three Adults are Unchurched

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]"A large and growing number of Americans who avoid congregational contact are not rejecting Christianity as much as they are shifting how they interact with God and people in a strategic effort to have a more fulfilling spiritual life. This suggests that we are on the precipice of a new era of spiritual experience and expression."

Barna expects the percentage of adults who are unchurched to grow during the coming decade. "However, the emergence of a national body of spiritual leaders who are assisting unchurched people in their quest for spiritual depth through means and relationships that are outside the usual institutional vehicles is significant.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]

We anticipate substantial growth in the number of people who are not connected to a congregational church but who are committed to God and to their faith."[/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]

[/FONT] What should we do about it as faithful church-going members? I believe most churches are already responding to it, and our best move is to support the building of the kingdom of the body of Christ even if we don't recognize some of the new strategies as accomplishing that. One of the surprising trends is that college-educated professionals are much more likely to be in church than the working class, less educate people are, but the latter are more likely to describe themselves as spiritually active. The need is among both groups, to engage the professional in spiritually fulfilling lifestyles, and to assure the working class is really getting the gospel, and not just making it up as they go along.

It is an exciting, frightening time, Exciting because the house-church of the first century could be, for all practical purposes become the central spiritual force in America again, with larger less frequent congregational meetings keeping fellowship and doctrine in line. Frightening, because this trend lends itself to the false teachers Paul, James, Peter and John warned of, distracting the unbeliever from the true gospel and setting him up for failure in this life.

"Choose what you will do. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." That paraphrase of Joshua's words will become more and more important in the short time we have left.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

a

 

[Zecryphon]

Good luck with that. Senior pastors are so busy today, it might be a month before he manages to find a slot for you. Many churches have a "get acquainted" luncheon once a month where they tell you what the church is about, how they worship, what they believe, what ministries are available to become involved in, etc. The smaller churches might be able to do that in a one-on-one sit-down with the senior pastor, but not the bigger ones, even the "smaller" bigger ones with 500-600 members.

The OP on this thread (two weeks ago now) said the Methodist, Lutheran, and Presbyterian congregations were shrinking in her town, and that's a trend nationwide, particularly for those denominations but also for Anglicans, Episcopals and other liturgical churches. The Pew Foundation says the only reason Catholics are not experiencing a shrinking effect at the local parish level is the influx of Hispanic immigrants who are keeping the numbers up for the Catholic churches. But the question is, why?

Christian pollster George Barna is not among the negative opinion holder who say it is because the church is failing at its mission. Barna says it is an indication of a different kind of spiritual awakening.

One in Three Adults are Unchurched

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]"A large and growing number of Americans who avoid congregational contact are not rejecting Christianity as much as they are shifting how they interact with God and people in a strategic effort to have a more fulfilling spiritual life. This suggests that we are on the precipice of a new era of spiritual experience and expression." [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Barna expects the percentage of adults who are unchurched to grow during the coming decade. "However, the emergence of a national body of spiritual leaders who are assisting unchurched people in their quest for spiritual depth through means and relationships that are outside the usual institutional vehicles is significant.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]We anticipate substantial growth in the number of people who are not connected to a congregational church but who are committed to God and to their faith."[/FONT]

What should we do about it as faithful church-going members? I believe most churches are already responding to it, and our best move is to support the building of the kingdom of the body of Christ even if we don't recognize some of the new strategies as accomplishing that. One of the surprising trends is that college-educated professionals are much more likely to be in church than the working class, less educate people are, but the latter are more likely to describe themselves as spiritually active. The need is among both groups, to engage the professional in spiritually fulfilling lifestyles, and to assure the working class is really getting the gospel, and not just making it up as they go along.

It is an exciting, frightening time, Exciting because the house-church of the first century could be, for all practical purposes become the central spiritual force in America again, with larger less frequent congregational meetings keeping fellowship and doctrine in line. Frightening, because this trend lends itself to the false teachers Paul, James, Peter and John warned of, distracting the unbeliever from the true gospel and setting him up for failure in this life.

"Choose what you will do. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." That paraphrase of Joshua's words will become more and more important in the short time we have left.

Good luck with that. Senior pastors are so busy today, it might be a month before he manages to find a slot for you.

Actually, in the first church I went to, when I started going to church again, when I was 25, the senior pastor actually came up to me and introduced himself and made an appointment to talk with me for later in the week. Now granted that was a small church. Maybe 1,000 members. My second church I couldn't do that in, and there was no need to as they were a Bible-based ND church they were recommended highly since there were no Ev Free churches near me. I was told the theology was pretty much the same, and it was. But with 10,000+ members, it just never would have been possible to meet with the senior pastor like that. But there were 24 others I could have met with, if I needed to. LOL

Many churches have a "get acquainted" luncheon once a month where they tell you what the church is about, how they worship, what they believe, what ministries are available to become involved in, etc. The smaller churches might be able to do that in a one-on-one sit-down with the senior pastor, but not the bigger ones, even the "smaller" bigger ones with 500-600 members.

That sounds like a good thing to have.

The OP on this thread (two weeks ago now) said the Methodist, Lutheran, and Presbyterian congregations were shrinking in her town, and that's a trend nationwide, particularly for those denominations but also for Anglicans, Episcopals and other liturgical churches. The Pew Foundation says the only reason Catholics are not experiencing a shrinking effect at the local parish level is the influx of Hispanic immigrants who are keeping the numbers up for the Catholic churches. But the question is, why?

I think the question is easily answered. People don't want to have to believe a certain way just to attend a church. Plus, there's been a radical shift in priorities, everyone focuses on themselves now. I personally lay alot of the blame for this on the "self-esteem" boosting ads and campaigns from the 1980's. Where teachers told us how great, and special we all were, just because we were alive. That goes right against what the Bible teaches. So you raise a whole generation of kids on that garbage and you will get the most self-centered people imaginable and that's exactly what we have in our churches now. The decline in the Lutheran church, I don't know if it really exists. The ELCA, which is the largest body of Lutherans, and the most liberal, is shrinking, but I don't know if people are leaving Lutheranism altogether or just switching synods. Like maybe some of the ELCA people are coming to the LCMS, doubtful but possible. The LCMS and WELS are shrinking too. But I think it may just be that we're bouncing around between synods. I haven't heard of any Lutherans leaving for the ND or the Anglican or the Methodist. So who knows what's going on.

Christian pollster George Barna is not among the negative opinion holder who say it is because the church is failing at its mission. Barna says it is an indication of a different kind of spiritual awakening.

Well Oprah-anity is all the rage today. I mean why follow God when you can be one. Mormonism is on the rise and the reason for that is that in that faith you actually can be a god. So why should you want to be submissive to one, especially one as "violent" as the Christian God? If God doesn't fit into people's preconceived box of what is just and moral, they will leave the church and find a god who is what they consider to be just and moral.

One in Three Adults are Unchurched

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]"A large and growing number of Americans who avoid congregational contact are not rejecting Christianity as much as they are shifting how they interact with God and people in a strategic effort to have a more fulfilling spiritual life. This suggests that we are on the precipice of a new era of spiritual experience and expression." [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Barna expects the percentage of adults who are unchurched to grow during the coming decade. "However, the emergence of a national body of spiritual leaders who are assisting unchurched people in their quest for spiritual depth through means and relationships that are outside the usual institutional vehicles is significant.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]We anticipate substantial growth in the number of people who are not connected to a congregational church but who are committed to God and to their faith."[/FONT]

What should we do about it as faithful church-going members? I believe most churches are already responding to it, and our best move is to support the building of the kingdom of the body of Christ even if we don't recognize some of the new strategies as accomplishing that. One of the surprising trends is that college-educated professionals are much more likely to be in church than the working class, less educate people are, but the latter are more likely to describe themselves as spiritually active. The need is among both groups, to engage the professional in spiritually fulfilling lifestyles, and to assure the working class is really getting the gospel, and not just making it up as they go along.

There's a website that actually is exploring this and where I would say most of the people who do post there are unchurched. It's: www.stupidchurchpeople.com But when you're dealing with the unchurched and how they go about interacting with others in the name of Christ, what you see is that they alone determine how that is done. It's a lot like Osteen's sermon on Being Somebody's Miracle. It all comes down to doing good deeds for others. Pretty soon, Christ will be out of the picture altogether and the unchurched will be relying upon their works for salvation. One of the biggest motivating factors driving people out of "the church" is the church subculture that exists. There's this whole mindset that if you are going to serve the Lord, you have to do it at church, otherwise you're not using your spiritual gifts as God has intended them to be used. Plus, there is also that whole thing about your church friends. They're your friends as long as your at that church. Stop going to that church and you'll never hear from these people in a sincere way. If they do contact you it will be to find out where you've been and when you're coming back to church. I've experienced this for myself and know it's true. That has to change.

It is an exciting, frightening time, Exciting because the house-church of the first century could be, for all practical purposes become the central spiritual force in America again, with larger less frequent congregational meetings keeping fellowship and doctrine in line. Frightening, because this trend lends itself to the false teachers Paul, James, Peter and John warned of, distracting the unbeliever from the true gospel and setting him up for failure in this life.

The house church model does frighten me, especially in today's society because there is such a focus on self. Who's really qualified to lead a house church? There's more to this than picking up a Bible and telling stories. The people who had house churches in the first century knew what was involved. Today I think it'd just be a bunch of like-minded people getting together and having fellowship with very little focus on God or on the word. It'd probably be closer to an Oprah book of the month club than anything else.

"Choose what you will do. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." That paraphrase of Joshua's words will become more and more important in the short time we have left.

It could be. Now if people only knew how to serve the Lord.

 

[Cris413]

That's good to see. I wish more Non-Denoms did. It would save people a lot of time in searching for a new church. Another thing people should do who are looking for a new church home is make an appointment with the senior pastor and get him to tell you what the church believes.

This is good stuff...but the best stuff...IMHO...is to talk to God about where He wants us to be....

....according to His good will and purpose for His Kingdom business.

For me...it's more about where He wants me rather than where it is I want to be.

How blessed I am ...I've pretty much loved everywhere He's put me...



weird how it always seems to work out like that...

I've had my "Nineveh" seasons as well...but I have always been blessed in some way by those as well.

 

[Caeroth]

I think the question is easily answered. People don't want to have to believe a certain way just to attend a church. Plus, there's been a radical shift in priorities, everyone focuses on themselves now. I personally lay alot of the blame for this on the "self-esteem" boosting ads and campaigns from the 1980's. Where teachers told us how great, and special we all were, just because we were alive. That goes right against what the Bible teaches. So you raise a whole generation of kids on that garbage and you will get the most self-centered people imaginable and that's exactly what we have in our churches now.

The self-serving aspect of religion has always existed. Witness the stories of Simon Magus (Acts 8:9-25) and Ananias and Saphira (Acts 5:1-11). Even today people choose a church on how it fits with their beliefs rather than how it will help them grow spiritually. I know from my own experience that when I went looking for the "right fit," I was surprisingly blessed to find a church that helped me grow spiritually and personally. It has been an awesome church experience. But I believe you have touched on something when you mention that today's version of the "Me" generation is indeed so self-centered that they don't find church very interesting -- mainly because for the first time in their lives they are being told they are NOT the most important person in the room.

There's a website that actually is exploring this and where I would say most of the people who do post there are unchurched. It's: www.stupidchurchpeople.com But when you're dealing with the unchurched and how they go about interacting with others in the name of Christ, what you see is that they alone determine how that is done. It's a lot like Osteen's sermon on Being Somebody's Miracle. It all comes down to doing good deeds for others. Pretty soon, Christ will be out of the picture altogether and the unchurched will be relying upon their works for salvation. One of the biggest motivating factors driving people out of "the church" is the church subculture that exists. There's this whole mindset that if you are going to serve the Lord, you have to do it at church, otherwise you're not using your spiritual gifts as God has intended them to be used.

Personally, in the few times I have been honored to share the message at our church, I have always emphasized that we need to be practicing our Christianity outside the church. And my senior pastor concurs, as he was a missionary for a long time before coming to the States. His whole life has been about living the gospel every single day, not just on Sundays.

I have been particularly blessed by our church recently when my wife unexpectedly passed away. The church ladies and men came through for us with meals and prayers and support all through the first month. And they have continued to help out in various ways without ever being asked. They are my friends in and out of church.

The house church model does frighten me, especially in today's society because there is such a focus on self. Who's really qualified to lead a house church? There's more to this than picking up a Bible and telling stories. The people who had house churches in the first century knew what was involved. Today I think it'd just be a bunch of like-minded people getting together and having fellowship with very little focus on God or on the word. It'd probably be closer to an Oprah book of the month club than anything else.

While the house church and its bigger sibling the emergent church both emphasize personal experience with God, from what I have seen there is no less emphasis on the gospel. Yes, it is possible that a person leading a Bible study one month through a traditional church will split off and start a "house church" the next, with no more qualifications than a big family room and a few like-minded friends. But there is a lot of support for the movement from theologians and even pastors, many of whom are just as fed up by denominationalism and even by "church-ism" as many of the rest of us. So a fed-up pastor spins off a small house church and keeps it small as the gospel works outward.

With many of these house churches, the emphasis is also on doing good works, on living the gospel and not just talking about it. With the smaller scale and lack of hierarchy, the house churches can act quickly and decisively to put themselves to work corporately for the greater good. No committees, no fund-raisers, no passing a request up the chain of church command. More like "Hey, next week let's meet at the soup kitchen and fix up some awesome chili" or "How about a quick drive to the Goodwill store to buy coats for those guys under the bridge on 5th Street?"

Yes, the danger is still that many a man or woman will feel like he or she has a handle on the gospel and attempt to teach it from their little learning and understanding. That is not to say that "unschooled" pastors cannot be awesome servants of God. However, when approaching Scriptures, it helps to have some foundational learning, which need not necessarily come from a seminary, but it sure doesn't hurt if it does. After all, why re-invent the wheel? There is something to be said for 2000 years of thought and tradition concerning Christ and His church. Knowing those traditions and the theology behind them can help us avoid the very heresy we fear in the emergent movement.

 

[rosiecotton]

One of the biggest motivating factors driving people out of "the church" is the church subculture that exists. There's this whole mindset that if you are going to serve the Lord, you have to do it at church, otherwise you're not using your spiritual gifts as God has intended them to be used. Plus, there is also that whole thing about your church friends. They're your friends as long as your at that church. Stop going to that church and you'll never hear from these people in a sincere way. If they do contact you it will be to find out where you've been and when you're coming back to church. I've experienced this for myself and know it's true. That has to change.

I so agree with this!! I think this is one problem our church has. We hardly have any outreach at all. Everything we do takes place at church....committee meetings, Bible studies, even our so-called outreach is at the church. We really do not get out in the community at all and actually serve people.
Maybe this is why many people do get frustrated with church- we feel like we are always doing things at the church, with hardly anytime for anything else.
I agree with the second part, too. We've had quite a few people leave our church, especially in the last couple of years. Now personally, I hate to see them go, but I don't hold it against them at all. They are still my friends, and I still love them. I really don't care what church they go to. I know it really bugs our pastor though, because he takes it as them rejecting him. He always worries about what he is going to say if he runs into them on the street.

 

[rosiecotton]

www.stupidchurchpeople.com

Thanks for posting this!! It's very interesting reading!!!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

a

 

[Cris413]

How awesome is our God He sometimes works in small ways with a lot of people...and in big ways with a few people.

There are churches that have fewer than 100 people...and seem to manage to minister to people around the world...Africa...South America...China...down the street at the Soup Kitchens....to the homeless...at the local Nursing Home...the Pregnancy Crisis Centers...

Ya know...I really don't understand a whole lot of this concept...

I really don't...I don't know what people seem to expect...

We seem to place so much focus on the church...it's not about the church...any church...IMHO

My thoughts are...when the heart of the matter is driven by what man can do for the purposes men deem righteous...in their strength and power...there's gonna be problems.

When the heart of the matter is God driven, for His purpose according to His righteousness...for His glory, honor and praise....

The Holy Spirit works in awesome and wonderous ways!

...whether you're gathered in someone's home...or a small building or a large building or a borrowed building....standing on a street corner...or right there...in your own home hangin’ out with friends, family and neighbors.