Church plans to have a Qu'ran burning on 9/11/10

[Questioning Christian]

I guess I should repeat myself since it didn't get any traction the last time I said it.

We're so worried about inciting angry Muslims by the burning of the Qu'ran.

But we forget that these same Muslim extremists we are afraid of inciting, these are the people who have been burning our flag for as long as I can remember. I'm the little kid who used to watch Frank Reynolds on ABC Nightly News before there ever was a Peter Jennings. I watched Nightly News in the late 1970's and I remember scenes from that time until now, of those Muslims burning our flag.

So if Terry Jones burns their Qu'ran, maybe the gander is getting what was good for the goose.

30+ years of American flag burning ... that's a lot of payback coming.

And the Muslims are infamous for believing in retribution.

 

[Questioning Christian]

I wouldn't burn a Qu'ran.

I view it as an affront and as unnecessary.

But maybe this is a classic case of divine retribution.

 

[lismore]

I was speaking to a muslim who doesnt agree with what Terry Jones is doing, but at least respects him for having the courage to make his feelings known.

Muslims think we in the West are cowards because we don't speak out.

Muslims are very open to discuss religion, but they dont respect namby pamby ass kissers.

After 9/11 and the 7/07 atrocities, we should have spoken out and asked what is this Islam that brings people to the murderous stage? Instead we had weasels like Bush and Blair falling over themselves trying to explain that Islam was not responsible for Aarabs blowing themselves up. What was responsible then, too much Camel's milk?

 

[_Sonnie]

but they dont respect namby pamby ass kissers.

I don't care what anyone else says about you, Lismore, you rock.

 

[lismore]

I don't care what anyone else says about you, Lismore, you rock.

Thankyou

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

LOVE you Lismore! EXACTLY. We as Christians have got to STAND UP. They expect us to lay down and roll over for them.

 

[lismore]

After the Allies liberated the concentration camps in Germany in 1945 they got the local Germans on buses and brought them into the camps to see what Nazism had done.

After 9/11 and 7/07 all the muslims in the USA and the UK should have been bussed up to the hospitals to see what their Islam had done.

Then some of them would have burned their own Qu'rans!

 

[Catherineanne]

Fantabulous...I have a whole neighborhood of Muslims, plus a muslim Palestinian brother in law. Yeah, they "accept" you for now. I had some very interesting conversations with afore mentioned. YOU keep on thinking they "accept" diversity. I beg to differ.

You are welcome to your opinion. Meanwhile, I remain one of the majority in my land, and the extreme Islamic version of reality is highly unlikely to prevail. What is much more likely, and probably inevitable, is that each succeeding generation of Moslems here will become more tolerant. If they do not, then they will not be happy here, and will probably choose to return to whatever bastion of Islam they find to be preferable; no problem with that.

If there is at present intolerance, it is the direct result of the Iraq war, which was presented to Moslems as a war on Islam. Clearly, there was little truth to that claim, but nonetheless, the little that was there, has prevailed, and remains as the received wisdom of the Islamic world.

There is no such thing in history as a harvest that is reaped, that was not first sown. This was true of the French revolution, and it is true of the extreme Islamic view of the west, and its motivations.

 

[Catherineanne]

Sadly if u were to read the koran you would realize these friendly loving muslims are rather lackadaisy disobedient members of Islam . If they were as obident to the koran as those the public calls extremists who are actually obident to the teaching of Islam you would either be their slave or your and your loved ones heads would be placed in a bag. Because that my friend is what the Koran teaches. Be thankful very thankful you live beside disobedient lackadaisy followers of isla

I am not sure what planet you are from, but here in the UK there is a legal system, a police force and a civilised society, to prevent the random putting of heads into bags. Such behaviour is not indicative of Moslems, but of psychopaths.

No doubt a psychopath could be a Moslem, but that does not mean that Moslems are necessarily psychopaths.

Therefore, the devotion of my neighbours to their God is not in fact in question.

 

[Catherineanne]

Yes, they tolerate diversity; they do not allow it in Muslim-controlled countries, but they do tolerate it, at least until they become the voting majority of the country they're in.

Do you not see that the intolerance of Islam within Islamic countries is the very reason why they cannot survive?

If you don't see it, moderate Islam certainly does. The only future for Islam is to learn tolerance and acceptance of other faiths. The way they are currently heading is going to lead only to the whole faith collapsing in on itself. If Saudi does not allow Christian churches, inter alia, then Saudi society cannot survive for long. However rich it is, it will collapse from the weight of its own inertia.

The very last thing that the West needs to do is to learn intolerance from Islam, and follow suit. That is just insane.

 

[Catherineanne]

But it's the reaction of the muslim world and their spin on things that gives me my impression of them. My impression of them is that very few of them are actually peace loving. Whenever something like 9-11 happends you don't basically say; well you asked for it, you got it, and that is what basically all of them said.

I remember the reaction of sympathy from around the world after 9/11. It is a shame that it seems not to have been noticed. Do you not remember people standing in the streets in Iran, holding candles? And reactions of sympathy and of horror from just about every country?

Axis of Friendship

 

[SharonL]

Catherianne: I respect your views, however history does not bear it out. Islam is taking over countries right and left and they are getting a good foothold in the USA and will continue until they take over. It is not a matter of them being tolerant of us - they demand we be tolerant of them.

Just look how they have advanced in the past 2 years with an adminisration that sides with them. They are in our government now and have a big loud speaker and will use it. One of the counsil meetings have now opened up with an Islamic prayer - they are a very good example of 'inch by inch - it's a sinch.'

We are the most tolerant people in the world and it will come home to bite us.

I don't see any other nation in the world transforming their nation to fit other cultures as America does - we don't have an identy anymore - the politically correctness has destroyed our way of life.

I don't know how it is in England - but from what I hear the Muslims have really made headway in England and this is their goal worldwide - they respect no ones beliefs or rules - only their own as their Qu'ran tells them to do.

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

Catherianne: I respect your views, however history does not bear it out. Islam is taking over countries right and left and they are getting a good foothold in the USA and will continue until they take over. It is not a matter of them being tolerant of us - they demand we be tolerant of them.

Just look how they have advanced in the past 2 years with an adminisration that sides with them. They are in our government now and have a big loud speaker and will use it. One of the counsil meetings have now opened up with an Islamic prayer - they are a very good example of 'inch by inch - it's a sinch.'

We are the most tolerant people in the world and it will come home to bite us.

I don't see any other nation in the world transforming their nation to fit other cultures as America does - we don't have an identy anymore - the politically correctness has destroyed our way of life.

I don't know how it is in England - but from what I hear the Muslims have really made headway in England and this is their goal worldwide - they respect no ones beliefs or rules - only their own as their Qu'ran tells them to do.

AMEN Sharon. It is called lack of research...and "I feel". Well, doing some research, it bears out what you have said. They are all over the place "being tolerant". It reminds me of the crazy neighbor, "I never knew they were like that". "I would of never guessed". Well, I do NOT live in fear of them, but I sure don't trust them. Especially when our one neighbor said the Taliban was GOOD! They are from Afghanistan, and Muslim. SO, I think to myself, we lost alot of our men for that mantality, SEND THEM BACK!

 

[SharonL]

AMEN Sharon. It is called lack of research...and "I feel". Well, doing some research, it bears out what you have said. They are all over the place "being tolerant". It reminds me of the crazy neighbor, "I never knew they were like that". "I would of never guessed". Well, I do NOT live in fear of them, but I sure don't trust them. Especially when our one neighbor said the Taliban was GOOD! They are from Afghanistan, and Muslim. SO, I think to myself, we lost alot of our men for that mantality, SEND THEM BACK!

Yes you are right - my heart breaks every time I think of all our beautiful military people who gave it all for the hate that is displayed back to a country offering them freedom.

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

Yep, sad, but true comments from them. It was ok if someone caught stealing got their hand chopped off..it "taught" others not to do it. Women treated like garbage, if it is so good, please, by all means, GO BACK!

 

[millerrod2]

I am not sure what planet you are from, but here in the UK there is a legal system, a police force and a civilised society, to prevent the random putting of heads into bags. Such behaviour is not indicative of Moslems, but of psychopaths.

No doubt a psychopath could be a Moslem, but that does not mean that Moslems are necessarily psychopaths.

Therefore, the devotion of my neighbours to their God is not in fact in question.

Again i state it is very apparent you have not read the islamic book of intolerance and violence. let me bring you up to date of what islam teaches:
India: Christian's Hand Severed

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On July 4, unknown assailants attacked a college professor, severing his right hand and part of his arm in Kerala, India. According to The Voice of the Martyrs contacts T.J. Joseph, a professor at Newman's College in Thodupuzha, was returning from a Sunday service at his church when a van pulled up beside him. The assailants forced him from his car and attacked him with knives and swords, amputating his lower arm and inflicting deep wounds to his body. At last report, doctors were attempting to save his limb.
According to reports, several Muslim students were offended by test questions on an exam T.J. Joseph gave two months ago. After protests by Islamic groups, T.J. was suspended from his job and apologized for his “unintentional error.” Nevertheless, he continued to receive threats. T.J.’s assailants in the July 4 attack are suspected to be members of the Islamic militant group, the Popular Front of India



Uzbekistan: Authorities Crack Down

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Authorities in Karakalpakstan, an autonomous region of Uzbekistan, have renewed a crackdown on Protestant Christians in recent weeks, according to Forum 18 News.

On July 8, two Christians were sentenced to 10 days in prison for religious activities. One of the imprisoned believers, Lepes Omarov, had previously faced opposition for his Christian activities. According to Forum 18, only state-registered Muslim communities and one Russian Orthodox parish are allowed to operate in Karakalpakstan. All other religious activity in the area is illegal.

In May and early July, police raided the homes of many Protestants, confiscating Christian books, DVDs and computers.

 

[millerrod2]

On June 13, Maoist rebels in Nepal attacked Christians at an evening prayer meeting, according to VOM contacts. The rebels ordered them to stop the meeting and then assaulted the pastor and believers when they refused.

Before the attack, the pastor had asked the Maoists to leave and return the next day to talk with him, but the rebels instead began to beat him with sticks. When church members, including the pastor’s father and women in the church, tried to defend the pastor, the Maoists attacked them, too. The rebels also burned Bibles and hymnals during the attack.

The following day, local villagers accused the Christians of not paying the “temple tax” and of “converting the local people to Christianity.” Each family was ordered to pay the exorbitant tax, and Christians have been warned that they will be expelled from the village if they do not pay. Some believers have voluntarily left the village, and those remaining risk losing their homes.

A 17-year-old girl in the Gedo Region of Somalia was severely beaten by her family recently after they discovered she had converted to Christianity, according to Compass Direct News. Nurta Mohamed Farah, 17, was later taken to a doctor, who prescribed medication for a “mental illness.” When she refused to abandon her Christian faith, her family forced her to take the medication.

Nurta’s family has read Islamic scripture to her twice a week since May 10, when they learned of her conversion. Somalis traditionally believe that the Quran cures the sick — especially the mentally ill.

Nurta has been shackled to a tree during the day and held in a small, dark room at night, according to Compass. “There is little the community can do about her condition, which is very bad,” a Christian source told Compass. “I have advised our community leader to keep monitoring her condition but not to meddle for their own safety. … We need prayers and human advocacy for such inhuman acts, and for freedom of religion for the Somali people.”

On Aug. 21, Mohamed Ali Garas, a prominent Somali church leader and convert from Islam, was beaten by Muslims in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, according to International Christian Concern.
Mohamed was walking to his new home when two Somali Muslim men struck him on the head with a wooden club and knocked him to the ground. The men continued hitting and kicking him in the chest and stomach. Mohamed had fled to Ethiopia from Somalia in 2005 after Somali authorities attempted to arrest him. He had recently moved to a new neighborhood in Addis Ababa because Somali Muslims threatened to attack him. At last report, Mohamed was being treated at a local hospital for his injuries, which included a damaged kneecap.
In recent months, Somali Christians living in Ethiopia have come under increased attacks from Somali Muslims. A Christian man was assaulted in July for reading a book critical of the Prophet Muhammad. A Somali pastor in the Ethiopian capital described this latest attack as “an apparent attempt to scare the Somali Christian community in Addis Ababa who consider Ethiopia a safe haven from religious persecution.”

 

[probinson]

There's several ways I'm thinking of right now on how to answer you but I'll narrow it down to this way first. Stateing our disagreements to him doesn't have to be about biblical christian admonishment. Even the world, athiests, have a certain moral code that they live by so simply being members of the human race we should admonish him for wanting to be so careless with the freedoms he has.

True. And I have no problem with that. Never have. I have no problem with all of the people attempting to arrive at a compromise. But a compromise is not what has been suggested. A, "you move your mosque the heck away from ground zero" is what has been suggested. That's not a "compromise". That's one side dictating to the other.

Now I know you don't believe it's such a terrible thing for what he wants to do, and I'm tired of trying to explain it to you, but he and his fellow muslims needs to know how we all feel about this, the good and the bad.

I also have no problem with that. But ultimately, I still must realize that it's up to the land owners what they do with their land. IOW, if the parties involved were to sit down and try to reach a compromise and none could be agreed upon, then I would still absolutely defend their right to build there.

For the reasons I've already stated numerous times, I honestly think attempting to reach a "compromise" is absolutely futile. This discussion has changed from "they shouldn't be allowed to build a mosque near ground zero" to "if we let them keep building mosques, they'll take over our country and destroy our way of life!" Positions like that, which are prevalent in many Americans, not to mention right here on this forum, would prevent any true "compromise" from ever taking place.

Personally I don't think this pastor really knows God all that well, but that aside, how is stating your opinion on this board admonishing him? You may think you're admonishing him by saying your peace about him and his plans on this message board but it really isn't about admonishing him but admonishing those who might agree with him?

That's a fair point. "Admonishment" probably wasn't the best word to use. It would probably have been more accurate for me to say that because this pastor in Florida is acting in the name of Christianity, I find it perfectly acceptable, as a Christian, to voice my dissent.

Either way, when it come to basic right and wrongs; christian right and wrongs, muslim right and wrongs, or humanistic right and wrongs, well, there is alot of wrongs being committed. So maybe instead of admonishing as a christian simply do it as a person standing up for right and wrong?

This statement doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Apart from our beliefs, how do we know what is "right" and what is "wrong"

I agree with you 100% on the burning of the Karan, I was mainly talking about your arguement about how people are voiceing their opinions about the mosque. But I basically understand where you're coming from. This whole thing winds down to rights in your opinion, I basically agree but I don't leave it there because as stated before I believe all our rights hold a certain amount of responsibility.

Oh, I absolutely agree. With freedom comes responsibility.

It's like faith, faith isn't just a belief, it's an action. Without deeds or action our faith is dead. Rights are similar, without responibility our rights will become dead. This Imam seems to have no true understanding of what rights are and how they came to be given in this country. And as long as people like him who only care about exercising their rights simply because they have them carelessly use those rights then it wont be too long that those rights will be taken away. And it's up to all Americans to admonish those who are careless with the rights they currently enjoy.

But it's not that simple.

There are many people, myself included, who don't view what is happening with Park51 as a "careless" application of one's rights, but to the contrary, see the opposition to this as a "careless" affront on equal rights and religious freedom.

So I don't agree that constructing a building that violates no laws or zoning ordinances on property you legally own, even if it goes against popular opinion, is an example of carelessly exercising your rights, nor would I agree that exercising that right will cause any of our rights to be taken away. OTOH, if the opposition were to be successful and they blocked the construction of Park51, then I believe that would open the door for a whole host of rights to be taken away from Christians.

 

[millerrod2]

Cather- yes i am from planet earth and as such it is my responsibility as a human being to research and seek TRUTH what i have just posted is not 1 tenth of the persecution and acts of violence islam has commited in the last few months. need i say it again NOT ONE TENTH !! WHY ?? because the koran teaches them intolerance and violence they do not see themselves as law breakers but they see themselves as obident believers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

miller, I have come to learn here, that people, it seems easier to bury their head in the sand, be politically correct and ecumenical. Sadly, none of that is returned. I have given up trying to discuss this. One day it will be made clear.