Church plans to have a Qu'ran burning on 9/11/10

[disciple-ofjesus]

Anyone who believes Islam to be peaceful or even believes Islam to be a religion is ignorant to the truth and has simply not read the whole koran. Nor do the know the history of it's founder. It seems in the US there is alot of ignorance and just pure laziness because many are supporting something they simply have not studied. If they did study it it would scare them to death the things the Koran teaches. But ignorance will prevail because people are to busy running to and fro to seek truth and knowledge concerning truths that have and will effect their lives

that coupled with the ever so pretty political correctness...there is no time to find things out. I know things and got accused of all sorts of nonsense. I had "extra" knowledge no one else had. NO IT IS CALLED RESEARCH PETE. Miller, IF anyone took any amount of time to research, they would know.

 

[Leah]

Anyone who believes Islam to be peaceful or even believes Islam to be a religion is ignorant to the truth and has simply not read the whole koran. Nor do the know the history of it's founder. It seems in the US there is alot of ignorance and just pure laziness because many are supporting something they simply have not studied. If they did study it it would scare them to death the things the Koran teaches. But ignorance will prevail because people are to busy running to and fro to seek truth and knowledge concerning truths that have and will effect their lives.

Exactly. I'm glad somebody's speaking up about it.

 

[Markus6]

Anyone who believes Islam to be peaceful or even believes Islam to be a religion is ignorant to the truth and has simply not read the whole koran. Nor do the know the history of it's founder. It seems in the US there is alot of ignorance and just pure laziness because many are supporting something they simply have not studied. If they did study it it would scare them to death the things the Koran teaches. But ignorance will prevail because people are to busy running to and fro to seek truth and knowledge concerning truths that have and will effect their lives

Call me ignorant but could you elaborate on how exactly Islam is not actually a religion?

 

[psalms 91]

Anyone who believes Islam to be peaceful or even believes Islam to be a religion is ignorant to the truth and has simply not read the whole koran. Nor do the know the history of it's founder. It seems in the US there is alot of ignorance and just pure laziness because many are supporting something they simply have not studied. If they did study it it would scare them to death the things the Koran teaches. But ignorance will prevail because people are to busy running to and fro to seek truth and knowledge concerning truths that have and will effect their lives

Amen. We will keep fighting skimishes with Islam but one day we will be faced with a real battle for they are anything but peaceful

 

[Questioning Christian]

These yahoos we're supposed to be worried about [that they might be incited to violence if we burn the Qu'ran], they've been burning our flag openly and publicly for years in the public square [and some of it during the time of war, if you want to make the comparison that OUR troops might be put in danger].

They've been doing it for years -

These same people we're so worried might be incited to violence.

And nobody bats an eyelash when it's our flag. Like we don't matter.

So who gives a flying fig if that church burns their Qu'ran?

Since Islam believes in retribution, maybe it's harvest time.

 

[Aimiel]

Call me ignorant but could you elaborate on how exactly Islam is not actually a religion?

It IS a religion... a cold, empty and dead one, being as the god of the Koran doesn't exist, but it is a religion.

 

[Questioning Christian]

Let me also say I personally think that Qu'ran burning is unnecessary and also an affront, and I would never do it, but maybe in some cosmic way, this is a divine retribution for all their years of burning our flag when we've done so much to help those countries.

 

[TheUnwanted]

No, it's not.

The military does not exist so that you can act like a fool and expect them to pay the price for your foolishness. The military exists to protect our country, not so some pastor of a small church can make worldwide headlines at the cost of soldier's lives.

Wait for it...

What are you talking about? Where did I say anything remotely resembling that?

In the quote directly above this one, along with several others. I even underlined it for you.

This is not caving to threats of violence. It's respecting the lives of our military men and women who put themselves in harms way every single day so that we can enjoy our rights and our freedoms.

"The glass isn't half empty, its half full."

If service personal being put in harmed way in the case that this burning goes ahead, but won't be if it doesn't... how id that NOT a threat of violence?

What do you think the whole purpose of this stunt is? The sole purpose is to give one giant middle finger to the Islamic religion. It serves no useful purpose. Period.

The same can be said of circumcision. But fortunately we live in a society where individuals get to decide for themselves what does and does not have a religious purpose. Others don't get to make that choice for them, no matter how offensive or misguided we may think them.

There is no redeeming quality to it whatsoever. It recklessly and needlessly endangers the lives of our troops and civilians.

The people who want to do it believe otherwise.

A more apropos analogy in this case would be this; A tiger is sleeping in its cage. So of course, you go in the cage and poke it with a pointy stick. You provoke the tiger to anger, and so naturally it comes after you. But you're bound and determined to not give into its demands for steak, even though you were the one that needlessly provoked him.

The tiger is not "sleeping in its cage"
iCasualties | Operation Enduring Freedom | Afghanistan

You've completely missed my point. I'm not suggesting that we don't burn Qu'rans because extremists are protesting it. I'm suggesting that the idea never should have been presented in the first place. IOW, I don't think we should give up our rights because extremists threaten us, but I think this is a hair-brained, ill-conceived, idiotic idea that will only fuel an already blazing fire that should never have been presented in the first place.

And I'M saying that the fire is already blazing, this won't make it worse, and that just because people want to do something ill conceived, idiotic or HARE brained isn't considered sufficient reason to stop them. More Americans will die this year from cigarette related illnesses than will die at the hand of terrorists, no matter how incensed koran burning makes them. Its certainly ill concieved, idiotic and HARE brained. Very few threads pouring such vitriol on big tobacco though.

 

[probinson]

Wait for it...

In the quote directly above this one, along with several others. I even underlined it for you.

Are you even paying attention to what you're saying? You said (emphasis added);

First, let me say that if you think that a single person who would never have engaged in an act of violence against American interests is going to be driven to violence by this single act, I think you are naiive [sic],
​

But I never said anything that remotely resembled that.

Then, you underlined this quote to show me that I did;

not so some pastor of a small church can make worldwide headlines at the cost of soldier's lives.
​

Except that doesn't even come close to what you said. Could you at least attempt to explain how your underlined quote correlates in any way with your earlier statement?

If service personal being put in harmed way in the case that this burning goes ahead, but won't be if it doesn't... how id that NOT a threat of violence?

Of course it's a threat of violence. But what I'm saying is that I believe that the reason we shouldn't do it has nothing to do with threats of violence, and everything to do with honoring our military.

The same can be said of circumcision.

I can not for the life of me understand how you can even try to equate circumcision to the lives of US soldiers. This is the second time you've attempted to draw some obscure parallel, that simply doesn't exist.

The people who want to do it believe otherwise.

What do they believe this will accomplish?

The tiger is not "sleeping in its cage"
iCasualties | Operation Enduring Freedom | Afghanistan

No, but the tiger has been provoked needlessly.

And I'M saying that the fire is already blazing, this won't make it worse,

I would have to strongly disagree.

and that just because people want to do something ill conceived, idiotic or HARE brained isn't considered sufficient reason to stop them.

Maybe. Maybe not. It's just like the article I posted earlier about yelling fire in a crowded theater. That's up to judges and lawyers to decide though.

Generally speaking though, I would agree that doing stupid things isn't sufficient reason to stop someone from doing it. OTOH, doing stupid things that endanger the lives of many other people from the relative safety of your home is not necessarily protected by "free speech".

More Americans will die this year from cigarette related illnesses than will die at the hand of terrorists, no matter how incensed koran burning makes them. Its certainly ill concieved, idiotic and HARE brained. Very few threads pouring such vitriol on big tobacco though.

What on earth does this have to do with anything? Americans choosing to smoke cigarettes, even knowing the risk, is an issue of personal responsibility. This situation needlessly endangers the lives of our troops, and they have no say in it.

 

[TheUnwanted]

Are you even paying attention to what you're saying? You said (emphasis added);

First, let me say that if you think that a single person who would never have engaged in an act of violence against American interests is going to be driven to violence by this single act, I think you are naiive [sic],
​

But I never said anything that remotely resembled that.

Then, you underlined this quote to show me that I did;

not so some pastor of a small church can make worldwide headlines at the cost of soldier's lives.
​

Except that doesn't even come close to what you said. Could you at least attempt to explain how your underlined quote correlates in any way with your earlier statement?

Saying the actions of the pastor of some small church is going to cost soldiers lives looks pretty much like you're saying what I thought you were saying.

Of course it's a threat of violence. But what I'm saying is that I believe that the reason we shouldn't do it has nothing to do with threats of violence, and everything to do with honoring our military.

Well how does THAT work?

I can not for the life of me understand how you can even try to equate circumcision to the lives of US soldiers. This is the second time you've attempted to draw some obscure parallel, that simply doesn't exist.

Its not an obscure parallel at all, its blatantly obvious. You think book burning is stupid and pointless, as is your right. I think circumcision is stupid and pointless, as is my right. However, We don't get to decide for OTHER people what religious expressions are important to them. You think book burning is pointless, thus its a "cheap" compromise to give it up in favour of soldier safety. Well thats all fine and good for you, but apparently the people who want to have the book burning disagree.

What do they believe this will accomplish?

Frankly, very little. But again, what I believe isn't important. Its what the people who want to have the koran burning believe it will achieve that is important.

No, but the tiger has been provoked needlessly.

Again, says you.

I would have to strongly disagree.

Disagree all you like. I don't believe this act is going to turn otherwise moderate, eceumenical muslims into America hating terrorists. Its just one more thing the same muslims who stone women for getting raped, and lock up foreign aid workers for naming teddy bears mohammed will point to to justify their extant hatred.

Maybe. Maybe not. It's just like the article I posted earlier about yelling fire in a crowded theater. That's up to judges and lawyers to decide though.

I don't think the analogy is apt. I get that you do, but I don't agree.

Generally speaking though, I would agree that doing stupid things isn't sufficient reason to stop someone from doing it. OTOH, doing stupid things that endanger the lives of many other people from the relative safety of your home is not necessarily protected by "free speech".

Once again, I don't for a moment believe that a single soldier or civilian death will occur from this event. Those who were going to make IEDs next week were going to make them anyway, regardless of whether this koran burning goes ahead or not. The koran burning isn't the porblem, the problem is tribal living semi literate muslims who are fed demonising hate speech by mullahs and imams dedicated to maintaining the status quo, and scapegoating the West.

What on earth does this have to do with anything? Americans choosing to smoke cigarettes, even knowing the risk, is an issue of personal responsibility. This situation needlessly endangers the lives of our troops, and they have no say in it.

OK, driving cars then. People choose to drive cars, knowing that innocent bystanders will be killed. So we should stop people driving cars, right?

"thats different" you'll say "people have a reason to drive cars, they're more convenient than buses and trains, so the 45,000 road deaths a year in America are acceptible risk". Well you're entitled to that belief. There are others of us who believe that protecting personal freedoms like those of free religion and free speech are just as important, and that any associated risk is just as acceptible.

 

[probinson]

Once again, I don't for a moment believe that a single soldier or civilian death will occur from this event.

Then you and I strongly disagree.

 

[Catherineanne]

I hope those doing this burning are as dim as they appear. Translations of the Koran do not have the same sacred status as the Koran in arabic. If they are burning the former, it is less of a problem than if they are burning the latter. With any luck, true arabic Korans will be in short supply in whatever Godforsaken place this is happening.

Christians regard translations of the Bible as Bibles. Moslems do not regard translations of the Koran as the Koran. The only true Koran is in arabic.

Meanwhile, this is the shortest possible route to seeing at the very least mass Bible burnings across the Islamic world. Congratulations to the pastor concerned; those Bibles are burnt on his bonfire. And following that, lives will be lost. There is no doubt about that.

Moslems are not known for their broad minded acceptance of disrespect to their faith.

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

Muslims aren't known for acceptence of ANYTHING outside of Islam period. While I don't think burning the Koran is a good idea...I guess it is that freedom of religion, speech whatever in effect there. I wouldn't do it or attend personally.

 

[Catherineanne]

Muslims aren't known for acceptence of ANYTHING outside of Islam period. While I don't think burning the Koran is a good idea...I guess it is that freedom of religion, speech whatever in effect there. I wouldn't do it or attend personally.

Fortunately, I know rather better than this. I have devout Moslem neighbours, and they accept everything about me, my home and my faith. They had one conversation, early on, to try to convince me to embrace Islam, and I politely declined, and they have not even mentioned it since. They have their own idiosyncracies, but on the whole we get on fine.

I have met many Moslems in this town. Most are lovely people. A very, very few are nutters, who the decent people want nothing to do with.

It is not the case that the majority of Moslems cannot tolerate diversity. They can.

 

[millerrod2]

Call me ignorant but could you elaborate on how exactly Islam is not actually a religion?

Brings up a wonderful question what did the founders of this country mean when they stated freedom of religion. What was their parimeters for the word religion what constitutes a religion. Is it any organized teachings with a set of beliefs ? Because if that is the case all terrorist groups could be classified as a religion they are an assembled group with specific beliefs and teachings so does this make hizbalah or alkida a religious groups ( sorry about the spelling) so again I ask what constitutes a religion. Maybe it's time - past time for the US to define in detail what the word religion means. The abortion issue fell into the same lack of definition of the words within our constitution. God has shown us that mankind will and does become more and more wicked with time this is the very reason our life does not exceed 125. The constitution served a great purpose for our country because it was based on a Godly foundation. Now that mans wickedness has increased maybe it time we as a nation better define the words of our foundation. I am not saying change the foundation what I am saying is strengthen our foundation by bringing about a clearer definition of the words within our constitution.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Once again, I don't for a moment believe that a single soldier or civilian death will occur from this event.

Wow, I guess you're all for gambling with some poor christian lives in places like Indonesia. Should we really gamble with lives based on your baseless belief? How nice. Let's do a quick risk-reward analysis here. Risk: Christians in places like Indonesia undergo persecution most likely some of them to the point of death; Reward: some Floridian evangelicals get to burn books because they have a right to protest. Isn't that really nice and thoughtful of some comfy Florida Christians?

Those who were going to make IEDs next week were going to make them anyway, regardless of whether this koran burning goes ahead or not.

How on earth did you come across this bit of information?

Let's apply your reasoning elsewhere and see how ridiculous it is: if I don't give this drunk bum some money for alcohol he will get it from somewhere so I might as well give it to him myself. Pretty ridiculous isn't it?


And I still would like you to give a good reason for burning the books. Does it somehow promote the gospel? Is it going to pursuade people? Is this behavior something that is truly representative of how the body of Christ should act? What ever happened to christians being peaceful and living out the fruits of the Spirit?

Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all people
Heb 12:14 Pursue peace with everyone, and holiness, for without it no one will see the Lord.

James 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct he should show his works done in the gentleness that wisdom brings. 3:14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfishness in your hearts, do not boast and tell lies against the truth. 3:15 Such wisdom does not come from above but is earthly, natural, demonic. 3:16 For where there is jealousy and selfishness, there is disorder and every evil practice. 3:17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, accommodating, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial, and not hypocritical. 3:18 And the fruit that consists of righteousness is planted in peace among those who make peace

I don't see how anyone can honestly say that Florida church is living out those principles.

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

Fortunately, I know rather better than this. I have devout Moslem neighbours, and they accept everything about me, my home and my faith. They had one conversation, early on, to try to convince me to embrace Islam, and I politely declined, and they have not even mentioned it since. They have their own idiosyncracies, but on the whole we get on fine.

I have met many Moslems in this town. Most are lovely people. A very, very few are nutters, who the decent people want nothing to do with.

It is not the case that the majority of Moslems cannot tolerate diversity. They can.

Fantabulous...I have a whole neighborhood of Muslims, plus a muslim Palestinian brother in law. Yeah, they "accept" you for now. I had some very interesting conversations with afore mentioned. YOU keep on thinking they "accept" diversity. I beg to differ.

 

[millerrod2]

Fortunately, I know rather better than this. I have devout Moslem neighbours, and they accept everything about me, my home and my faith. They had one conversation, early on, to try to convince me to embrace Islam, and I politely declined, and they have not even mentioned it since. They have their own idiosyncracies, but on the whole we get on fine.

I have met many Moslems in this town. Most are lovely people. A very, very few are nutters, who the decent people want nothing to do with.

It is not the case that the majority of Moslems cannot tolerate diversity. They can.

Sadly if u were to read the koran you would realize these friendly loving muslims are rather lackadaisy disobedient members of Islam . If they were as obident to the koran as those the public calls extremists who are actually obident to the teaching of Islam you would either be their slave or your and your loved ones heads would be placed in a bag. Because that my friend is what the Koran teaches. Be thankful very thankful you live beside disobedient lackadaisy followers of isla

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

Yep, true Miller. Our neighbors are very laxidasical when it comes to their faith, I think. They did celebrate Ramadan...but are lax in other areas. The conversation I had with them, when they said they thought that the Taliban was GOOD...I thought, GEE, we lost alot of our guys for the Taliban being "good"....maybe we should of let them stay under that regime then! THEN I thought, IF it is SOOOOO good there..GO BACK!

 

[millerrod2]

Yep, true Miller. Our neighbors are very laxidasical when it comes to their faith, I think. They did celebrate Ramadan...but are lax in other areas. The conversation I had with them, when they said they thought that the Taliban was GOOD...I thought, GEE, we lost alot of our guys for the Taliban being "good"....maybe we should of let them stay under that regime then! THEN I thought, IF it is SOOOOO good there..GO BACK!

I hope they are just lackidaisy and disobedient my fear is they are a silent army using our freedoms to infiltrate our country silently surrounding waiting for the call of the global leader of Islam who we will come to know as the antichrist. Be very weary of the silent souldiers of the army of Islam they are bent on global domination