Christianity - religion and relationship

[JackofSpades]

What makes a christian?

A) Holding set of dogmatics to be true, following christian moral rules and taking part in traditional christian-related practises such as going to church?

B) Having experiential contact with spiritual being, which introduces itself as Jesus?

For arguments sake, lets call A "religion" and B "relationship". What makes person a christian? Is it religion or relationship or both?

If there is B, is A necessary? Or other way around?

What is relationship of A and B in christian faith?

 

[1watchman]

Well, the simple answer is B for salvation and any part in God; and A seems to speak somewhat of learning the ways and mind of God, which is important. I don't think one will grow much in the Lord by following any man-made ways, and should embrace Church Truth as given in the Word of God for our walk and testimony in the world. The innovations of men are really the deceit of Satan to corrupt God's testimony, so I hold to Bible-only as the path God gives us. Look up always!

 

[JackofSpades]

...so I hold to Bible-only as the path God gives us. Look up always!

Umh, we must speak in different therminology here.

For me most of stuff related to holy texts, like belief that Bible is word of God, is actually part of dogmatics which I described as "religion".

By "relationship" I didn't mean relationship with the Bible, but relationship based on inner experience, such as hearing voice of god, feeling things and so on.

 

[prov1810]

Belief and relationship are inseparable because if you really believe in God, you love Him. You know Him as lovable. You obey His will because you know Him as good.

Love and orthodoxy are inseparable because you love Him as He is, as He has revealed Himself. And this self-disclosure is His love for you, because through it He is making a relationship with a cognitive being.

 

[chapmic]

It's having a loving relationship with Jesus that Makes you a Christian. The Bible is more than dogmatic principles to a believer. When you believe and are searching for answers in the Bible, the words that we read evoke an emotion and sometimes your heart races. It's a big AHA! moment because you have discovered Truth.

 

[ViaCrucis]

What makes a christian?

A) Holding set of dogmatics to be true, following christian moral rules and taking part in traditional christian-related practises such as going to church?

B) Having experiential contact with spiritual being, which introduces itself as Jesus?

For arguments sake, lets call A "religion" and B "relationship". What makes person a christian? Is it religion or relationship or both?

If there is B, is A necessary? Or other way around?

What is relationship of A and B in christian faith?

More A than B.

Christianity is a confessional religion, involving the confession of certain things to be true: Namely that Jesus is the Christ, and that this Jesus Christ is Lord and the Son of God. What these things mean is outlined in the Nicene Creed, which is the summary of normative, orthodox Christian faith.

The nature of this confession is that God has a relationship with us through His own downward movement. That is, God comes down to meet us. The most central act of this encounter is in the person of Jesus, who being God in the flesh was the living encounter with Israel's God; for us we encounter this same Jesus through what we call "Means of Grace", specifically Word and Sacrament. In the preaching of the Gospel, in Baptism, and in the Lord's Supper.

As such the locus of the Christian religious experience is faith, to believe what we have heard and receive it as true and trustworthy, holding fast to it; to trust in the One we confess, hoping in Him and what He has promised.

It is neither in the "doing" of certain moral acts, nor in an esoteric, subjective experience. It is in the believing of certain objective realities, believing they are true, and trusting in what they mean. The "doing" comes out from that faith as that faith shapes us to interact with our neighbor in love and kindness, and to respond to God in prayer and thanksgiving. But it is never us reaching upward to God to try and grasp Him or meet Him through our own efforts, through our own experiences or moral efforts; but it is about God coming down to meet us in His gracious Word and Sacraments, and these forming and creating faith in us to believe, trust, and confess; and to then be shaped by this faith to the love of God and neighbor.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ephraimanesti]

What makes a christian?

A) Holding set of dogmatics to be true, following christian moral rules and taking part in traditional christian-related practises such as going to church?

B) Having experiential contact with spiritual being, which introduces itself as Jesus?

For arguments sake, lets call A "religion" and B "relationship". What makes person a christian? Is it religion or relationship or both?

If there is B, is A necessary? Or other way around?

What is relationship of A and B in christian faith?

MY FRIEND,

A and B are inseparable in that one automatically leads to the other--i.e., following religious practices WITH THE HEART leads to an active relationship with the Trinity. Conversely, the active relationship with God leads one to desire to reciprocate the Love received in that relationship by doing, saying, thinking, and feeling only those things--"moral rules and related practices"--which are pleasing to God.

CHRIST'S DEBTOR,
ephraim

 

[Sketcher]

I'd say you shouldn't have one without the other.

 

[ephraimanesti]

I'd say you shouldn't have one without the other.

Actually, you CAN'T have one without the other.

ephraim

 

[Inkfingers]

What makes a christian?

Being given, by God, the gift of faith that makes us recognise that God is our Lord and Saviour.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What makes a christian?

A) Holding set of dogmatics to be true, following christian moral rules and taking part in traditional christian-related practises such as going to church?

B) Having experiential contact with spiritual being, which introduces itself as Jesus?

For arguments sake, lets call A "religion" and B "relationship". What makes person a christian? Is it religion or relationship or both?

If there is B, is A necessary? Or other way around?

What is relationship of A and B in christian faith?

The connective idea between A and B would be the concept of "recognition."

 

[faroukfarouk]

Being given, by God, the gift of faith that makes us recognise that God is our Lord and Saviour.

Ephesians 2.8, right?

 

[hedrick]

I’m not convinced that the Bible sees religious experience as an essential part of Christianity. Jesus sees obedience, which is loving behavior, as the key. Paul sees faith, though if you read all of the books and not just Romans / Galatians, right behavior is also important for him. Paul seems to have had mystical experiences, but he doesn’t seem to tell people that everyone should have that, and tends to downplay the significance. Jesus certainly sees prayer as important. Is that what the OP means by “experiential contact with spiritual being?”

There is also little sign that either Jesus or Paul value anything other than the most basic beliefs: one God, Jesus came to bring the Kingdom, Jesus died for us. Certainly not what I’d call “dogmatics.” The Apostles’ Creed, perhaps. The Nicene Creed seems to go beyond what the Bible mandates in terms of specific theology.

 

[NannaNae]

What makes a christian?

A)such as going to church?

B) Having experiential contact with spiritual being(he was man like you ), which introduces itself as Jesus?



If there is B, is A necessary? Or other way around?

What is relationship of A and B in christian faith?

that in order to better know B and love him more..
when we will humble ourselves and follow HIM where he leads .. and even put up with and also willing to learn to even love the unloveable as he did you....and that starts in all starts in A.

 

[oi_antz]

What makes a christian?

A) Holding set of dogmatics to be true, following christian moral rules and taking part in traditional christian-related practises such as going to church?

B) Having experiential contact with spiritual being, which introduces itself as Jesus?

For arguments sake, lets call A "religion" and B "relationship". What makes person a christian? Is it religion or relationship or both?

If there is B, is A necessary? Or other way around?

What is relationship of A and B in christian faith?

If B is real, it will lead to what might appear to be A. Contrary to what Ephraimenesti said and which he may explain better for you, I observe that A can be exercised without B. Belief has so much power over human rationality. Humans do things that are irrational because of belief. But faith is more than belief, it involves hope and trust (which corresponds to your B, where there is an apparent living interaction with the Christian spirit).

Matthew 7:21 is where Jesus discusses your question. He uses the expression "he who does the will of my father, which is in heaven". I am sure this is a necessary result of an obedient worshipper in B, but an obedient worshipper in A might not necessarily satisfy Matthew 7:21. The main distinction seems well described by Proverbs 3:4-5 and Deuteronomy 8:2-3.

 

[JackofSpades]

Jesus certainly sees prayer as important. Is that what the OP means by “experiential contact with spiritual being?”

If I talk to god and god talks back, that's what I mean as "having experiential contact". I meant two way - communication. And I said experiential as opposite to dogmatic belief, like "when priest preaches that is god talking". It's a dogmatic belief, but not experiential contact.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

What makes a christian?

A) Holding set of dogmatics to be true, following christian moral rules and taking part in traditional christian-related practises such as going to church?

B) Having experiential contact with spiritual being, which introduces itself as Jesus?

For arguments sake, lets call A "religion" and B "relationship". What makes person a christian? Is it religion or relationship or both?

If there is B, is A necessary? Or other way around?

What is relationship of A and B in christian faith?

Just as in every other relationship, it's both.

It begins with relationship, and then deepens that relationship with rules. All relationships have rules. For instance, when you get married or even when you seriously date someone, you cannot simply act as you did before. You can't just go to the pub with the lads. You now make a call and ask, is it OK if I have a pint with the lads after work? And, you expect them same in return.

Rather than simply a negative look at rules, there is also a positive way to see them. When love someone you eagerly seek to know what makes them happy, and you rush to do whatever that something is. You seek to find their will, and you try to do it. This is what love does. This is how love acts.

 

[football5680]

Both are needed to be a Christian but B alone does not make somebody a Christian. Many people had direct contact with Jesus but they still didn't accept him.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The other important thing to know about "rules" is that they are not God's busy work for us. The rules are more of an owners manual. When you break the rules, you break yourself. It may not happen immediately, but it will happen.

For example, if you fail to change the oil in an engine that engine will fail. Sin is a seed, not a tree. It takes time to grow and see its consequences. If you try to break/ignore the law of gravity by jumping off of a building, you will get a more immediate feedback, but if you fail to forgive and hold bitterness and anger, you will kill yourself more slowly.