Christian Soldiers

abadhaircut

Newbie
May 7, 2007
16
1
✟7,626.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
This is something I've been torn on for awhile. Can a Christian serve in the military? Christ teaches in the New Testament to not murder. He never gave a list of exceptions such as "thou shalt not murder, unless Uncle Sam says its okay." Jesus even gave us the perfect example of turning the other cheek when he chose not to fight back against "enemies". Also, when Judas brought the guards to arrest him in the garden, Jesus stopped Peter from defending him with his sword. I just don't believe Jesus would be too pleased with me running around shooting people with an assault rifle, no matter the cause.

I'm not here to criticize our soldiers. My dad served in the army and my brother is currently serving. I also have several friends in the military. But, as a Christian, I just have a hard time trying to find justification for Christians shooting people. I hope this made sense, I kind of rambled on a bit.
 

Windlord

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2006
650
35
41
Indiana
✟992.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Didn't Jesus tell his disciples in Luke to sell their cloaks and buy a sword if they didn't have one. I don't have a problem with Christians serving in the military. I don't consider what the military does murder.

Read the whole passage.

Luke 22:35-38 says:

35 [Jesus] asked them [the eleven apostles], "When I sent you out without a purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
They said, "No, not a thing."
36 He said to them, "But now the one who has a purse must take it, and likewise a bag. And the one who has no sword must sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you, this scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered among the lawless’; and indeed what is written about me is being fulfilled."
38 They [the disciples] said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
"It is enough," he replied. (NRSV)


The reason Jesus told them to buy a sword was not so they could use it, but to fulfill prophecy. Anyway, none of them actually bought any swords. They had two of them already, and Jesus decided that was enough to fulfill the prophecy. But two swords between thirteen people wouldn't have been enough to do any real fighting. And indeed, when Peter decides to try and use his sword, Jesus stops him and tells him that "those who live by the sword, die by the sword."

There are too many places in the New Testament where Jesus speaks of loving your enemies, of returning evil with good, not to mention his claim that we belong to a kingdom that is not of this world. I don't think Christians should serve in the Military if they truly want to follow in the footsteps of Jesus completely. Many of the earliest Restoration Movement leaders agreed with me too, if I remember correctly.
 
Upvote 0

heapshake

The Great Pumpkin
Mar 11, 2002
381
8
Missouri
✟760.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There are too many places in the New Testament where Jesus speaks of loving your enemies, of returning evil with good, not to mention his claim that we belong to a kingdom that is not of this world. I don't think Christians should serve in the Military if they truly want to follow in the footsteps of Jesus completely. Many of the earliest Restoration Movement leaders agreed with me too, if I remember correctly.

I think you're right about early Restoration leaders. I think you can love your enemies and also punish them.
 
Upvote 0

Rao

Candlecaster
Sep 24, 2009
175
12
✟7,862.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I would not go as far as calling it murder, it's just killing, however I am still not sure it's a legitimate choice for a Christian.

Definitely it's not evil to kill someone for self-defense, or for the defense of your family or innocents in general. Presumably it's not evil to kill in war.

But things get blurred soon if you join the army voluntarily when it's not war... it's easy to say we're at war against terrorism etc. but frankly it does sound like an excuse to clear your conscience.

The problem I see with being in the army, is that you basically swear to obey any order (except perhaps the most inhumane ones, like if a superior orders you to torture someone or kill a minor, I really hope in these cases disobeying is not punishable) and not question the motives. How can a Christian possibily not question whether the purpose of what he's being order is really good? But that's the setup: if you join the army, you're required to power off your conscience and believe that your country is automatically right, your army is fighting on the absolutely right side, and your superior gives you fair orders. This conscience power-off is what I believe totally incompatible with Christianity.
 
Upvote 0

jblake

Newbie
Jan 9, 2009
11
0
✟15,222.00
Faith
Christian
Can a Christian serve in the military?
Historically, most of the groups that either were influenced by Campbell, or are outgrowths of the restoration movement were considered to be "Peace Churches". Prior to Vietnam, demonstrable membership in a congregation of one of those groups, would suffice for exemption from the draft. During Vietnam, that exemption became more difficult to attain. The groups that "lost" their status as "Peace Churches" usually did so during that period of time.
But that's the setup: if you join the army, you're required to power off your conscience and believe that your country is automatically right, your army is fighting on the absolutely right side, and your superior gives you fair orders.
As the Nuremburg trials demonstrated "I was just following orders", is not a valid defense when it comes to war crimes. One of the issues with contemporary warfare, is how to objectively define what is, and what is not a war crime. One person's thug is a second person's terrorist is a third person's freedom fighter is a fourth person's unlawful combatant is a fifth person's irregular army soldier, is a sixth person's regular army soldier is a seventh person's unarmed combatant is an eight person's civilian is a ninth person's petty criminal.
 
Upvote 0

ModestGirlsRock

World Changer
Jun 24, 2005
435
23
Visit site
✟687.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
I have listened in on a conversation over this topic not too long ago. One of the men in the group who believes Christians should not enter the military talked about early church history and how many converts who were soldiers at the time of becoming Christians were persecuted because these men would request to leave the front lines. Many of them would abandon their posts. It was interesting to hear, and I certainly do want to study more myself on the issue. I do not agree with war personally, but I have never examined war from a N.T biblical perspective.
 
Upvote 0

Ory_11-3

Newbie
Nov 3, 2010
3
0
✟7,613.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This is something I've been torn on for awhile. Can a Christian serve in the military? Christ teaches in the New Testament to not murder. He never gave a list of exceptions such as "thou shalt not murder, unless Uncle Sam says its okay." Jesus even gave us the perfect example of turning the other cheek when he chose not to fight back against "enemies". Also, when Judas brought the guards to arrest him in the garden, Jesus stopped Peter from defending him with his sword. I just don't believe Jesus would be too pleased with me running around shooting people with an assault rifle, no matter the cause.

I'm not here to criticize our soldiers. My dad served in the army and my brother is currently serving. I also have several friends in the military. But, as a Christian, I just have a hard time trying to find justification for Christians shooting people. I hope this made sense, I kind of rambled on a bit.


This is something that has complexed me for awhile. I was a Solider in the Army and deployed to Iraq. What I can say though is I really do not think that the military is a good place for a Christian to be.There is a lot abt being a Solider that goes against what the Bible teaches us.Even in the way that we join ( being sworn in- even though I believe the Bible tells us not to swear). The mentailty of life and death is different in the military. THe military is almost desenestived to the whole concept of killing.It is hard to see it when you are in, but I have to say that after I got out and got baptized in Jesus name ( Acts 2:38) I am now abit sick to my stomach of the densistized concept of killing that was present while I was in the Army ( and I wasn't even a combat Soldier). What is even worse is that we are taught that killing is cool and assoicate War with fun in our video games ( like Call of Duty).

My advise would be not to put yourself into a situation where you may have to kill someone. My advise is to find a good church and to repent and get baptized in JESUS name for the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost.

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." - Acts 2:38 ( KJV)



I have been reading some forums abt this subject, and I do not think that the early church was a confortable with military service as we are now. I have actually heard that alot of the Roman Soliders who converted to Christianty where actually maytred for refusing to kill. I think that some Romans where punsihed (maybe even killed) for refusing military service/ getting branded etc.

P.S. Yeah I'm a bad speller, I know it. lol :)
 
Upvote 0

Ory_11-3

Newbie
Nov 3, 2010
3
0
✟7,613.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Although I think that the military is not suitable to Christian lifestyle, I would like to copy and paste something that I wrote concerning this:

( Note: I joined the Army when I was under the impression that the government was trying to do right under God)


Anyway I am going to copy and paste my writing below:

This album is NOT intended to promote people to join the military nor do I think that these leaders who declared war (which let me emphasize that the military itself does not declare war - they are the ones who have to carry it out) had an honest agenda in the Iraq War. There are a lot of things about the "War on Terror" that do not add up to me. I may be wrong, but it does not feel right in my spirit and the facts just do not add up. It is simply a record of my military career.

There are many great and moral people that are in the military who believe that they are doing what is right under God. The problem is that it is the government leaders who decide the use of our military. It is ultimately the will of the current government leaders who decided the outcome of military action. Usually these leaders don't even see war. It is our military and the foreign country which they occupy that has to suffer the pains of war.

Sometimes it is good to be blunt and sometimes it is not, so I am going to take a chance and be blunt on this one.

I believe that the military is NOT a good place for a Christian to be.Perhaps it never was a good place for Christians to be. I no longer believe that we Christians should put ourselves in a situation where we may have to kill people. There are two suggestions that I have for everyone. One is to find a good church and get saved ( Acts 2:38) and the other is to go to college and get an education.

I do think that the Military is now being used for evil. I don't know if many people realize it or not but the president is the commander and chief of the Army forces. Our president Obama has clearly shown how he feels about Jesus Christ (although I am not saying this to judge Him, I wish that he would turn to God).

As far to my knowledge there were never WMDs found in Iraqi - which means the thousands/ maybe even millions of Iraqis died for no reason. On the initial invasion we bombed Iraq all night. We did to them probably 10 fold the damage that happened to us in 911.

Also -- after the invasion many Iraqi military personal where taken after they surrendered. This was th time to where we were on the hunt for MWDs, so if we never found those weapons then what are we holding the Iraqi Solider's for who surrender during the inital invasion?


There is ALOT that doesn't add up. All I know is that we all need to try to get right with God. :)

About 911 . My heart goes out to the families of thepeople who died in the 911 attack. However I do not believe that a man who lives on the other side of the world in a cave (Osama) with no running water is able to penetrate the one of the most advanced technological defense systems on the face of the planet or is able to house a lab that stores anthrax with the ability to ship it. The more facts I research the more about 911 that just does not add up.

I can send more info in a P.M. is anyone wants it.



The military - Honestly I cannot say right now ( or if ever) is the best place to be at this time. Our last and our current presidents have agendas that I am not so sure about. Honestly I do not think that Bush's intentions where genuine in this Iraq War. There are so many things about the Iraq War and 911 that just don't add up and Obama says that he is Christian, but I have heard him make fun and mock God's word in a speech.




The thing that scares me about this is that this is president is the commander and chief of the armed forces. So if he is against Jesus Christ, and he commands the military, well does that make his command decisions against God?

It’s all screwed up. I am not pointing fingers, but we have screwed up leaders who lie to us (the military) and make us thing that we are fighting for a good cause. It is all so confusing b/c personal agendas are mixed in with truth.


For example:

Was Iraq a treat to the United States?

My answer is no. After we bombed and killed thousands and after thousand of our military where killed we found out that he did not have MWDs. As a result the people hate us (the military) for killing their families during the initial bombing of Iraq and continued military operations. The truth is that if another country came here to the to the United States and killed our family members for something that they did not have ( MWDs) I am sure that people would stand and fight the opposing country (please do not get me wrong, I am not saying that it is right to take revenge, but the reality is, is that I do believe that most people would do it). Our president orders us to go over there and of course the people who hate us shoot and make IEDs at us for revenge. As a result we shoot back to defend ourselves, and raid buildings in search for IEDs. This creates a non-ending the cycle of death and hate repeats itself as the Iraqi civilians and the military pays the price with their lives while the people who declared war sleep peaceful in their beds.


Was Saddam a bad man to his people?

Well I have to say yes ( but he was not a treat to the United States). I don't say this just b/c of something I heard or read about, I have talked an Iraqi FPS and he have told me stories of what Saddam did to the Iraqis.


Now we are stuck because I think it would be kind a wrong to just pull out of Iraq after all of the damaged we have caused and because of all the Iraqi people who may need our help; but at the same time our mere presence in Iraq brings trouble ( b/c it all goes back to that cycle of death).

So you see my friend, it’s all twisted up.


It is kind of twist because it is an endless cycle of death. The reality is that those people are going to hate us because of the deaths that they have suffered during the initial invasion.

They fire at the military for revenge ( for the death of their families and loved ones) and of course if you shoot at the military they are going to shoot back to defend themselves.

I know that no everyone believes in God, but I do and my belief/ morals are based on the Bible ( KJV). Every ones knows a famous quote made by Jesus:

“Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.” – Matthew 26:52 ( KJV)

After Iraqis loose family members due to military action they may feel like there is nothing left to live for and choose to “live by the sword” by firing ( or using IEDs) on American troops. As a result our troops fire back and perform more combat ops to search for IEDs, insurgent actively etc. Of course during combat ops more Soldiers and Iraqis are killed and the surviving ones ( Iraqis) seek to “live by the sword” to avenge the death of their loved ones.

See where this is going? It becomes an endless cycle of death that merely repeats itself over and over again.

Even though I think Bush had an personal agenda in this war, we are like at a catch 22 now. I don’t think that we should have gone it but if we pull straight out we leave Iraqi completely open because they do not have a strong governing authority. One the other hand the longer we stay the longer that American G.I. – Iraqi cycle of death continues.

It kind of reminds me of the Roman coliseums back in the day. Where Roman leaders threw people in a pit and they were told to fight to the death- in this case those people are the American G.I.s and the Iraqi people.

My heart goes out to the military personnel, Iraqis and Afghan people who are caught up in the middle of all of this.

…much love in Christ
 
Upvote 0

paul1149

that your faith might rest in the power of God
Site Supporter
Mar 22, 2011
8,460
5,268
NY
✟674,964.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Romans 13 acknowledges the state's right to bear the sword to protect the innocent and punish injustice. My reading of that is that participating in a just war therefore is not murder. Whether one elects to participate I would leave to individual conscience.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

benidict

benidict
May 26, 2011
85
4
Oahu Hawaii/Paradise. :)
✟15,236.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Libertarian
This is something I've been torn on for awhile. Can a Christian serve in the military? Christ teaches in the New Testament to not murder. He never gave a list of exceptions such as "thou shalt not murder, unless Uncle Sam says its okay." Jesus even gave us the perfect example of turning the other cheek when he chose not to fight back against "enemies". Also, when Judas brought the guards to arrest him in the garden, Jesus stopped Peter from defending him with his sword. I just don't believe Jesus would be too pleased with me running around shooting people with an assault rifle, no matter the cause.

I'm not here to criticize our soldiers. My dad served in the army and my brother is currently serving. I also have several friends in the military. But, as a Christian, I just have a hard time trying to find justification for Christians shooting people. I hope this made sense, I kind of rambled on a bit.
Well I am happy to see you are not criticizing us. Murder is a punishable offence in the military. We have clear criteria what is and is not a legal kill. We also have to take care of any one we wound, and are responsible for their well being. We only shoot at those that show agressive acts toward us. We do not kill civilians that are non combatants intentionally. THAT is murder. There is a clear difference and the old and New testaments testify to this. I sleep very well at night thank you. I am finishing up my first tour of Iraq, and thank God I did not have to shoot anyone. However, I have with full intent to use it, pointed my machine gun and rifle at people, some as young as 14 numerous times. Thankfully they were able to see reason. My job is to save lives. Innocent lives. Combatants are NOT innocent. Hope this helps ease your mind. Peace.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

fisherman72

Newbie
Jul 3, 2011
18
2
✟15,149.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
We have seen what those muslim radicals are doing by forming an army. Its our duty for all the innocent Americans to fight this evil. As a Christian i support our armed forces..I am a proud American and Christian and i believe we must stop the evil-doers and those who prey on the innocent
 
Upvote 0

benidict

benidict
May 26, 2011
85
4
Oahu Hawaii/Paradise. :)
✟15,236.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Libertarian
We have seen what those muslim radicals are doing by forming an army. Its our duty for all the innocent Americans to fight this evil. As a Christian i support our armed forces..I am a proud American and Christian and i believe we must stop the evil-doers and those who prey on the innocent
Thank you. And there are alot of Good Muslims who are fighting along side of us Christians, and Quite a few Athiest, Wiccans, Jews, and Buddhist too, that are fighting this evil scourge. Not to mention a number of Homosexuals. One of whom is known to a close friend of mine, that helped take down the flight in pennsylvania that was headed to the capital. Its not just a Christian fight my friend. These folks hate everyone, including many of their own. I hope we do not have the same spirit. Otherwise. WE are no better than they. :prayer:
 
Upvote 0

DanielRB

Slave of Allah
Jul 16, 2004
1,958
137
New Mexico
✟18,922.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Greetings All,

I realize this is quite a sensitive issue today in the United States. My own feelings have changed a lot over the ten years since 9/11. I don't think there are any easy answers, and I don't think it's a black-and-white matter.

The thing that troubles me most in all of this is not so much the specifics of the current wars or their justification (although that is a worthy discussion in and of itself). Rather, what concerns me is how blurred the lines have become betwen service to God and service to Country.

Philippians 3 really gets into this (especally v 20, "But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ") and Ephesians 6 (epecially v 12, "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.")

I think that over the last 10 years (and perhaps longer, as conservative Christians have been getting more politically active since the 1970's), the church in the US has more and more been saying that service to America = service to God. Even when our cause is just, it's not that simple.

Is the State given the sword to punish evil (Rom 13:1ff)? Yes...but keep in mind what the sword of Rome was. God set it up, but it was oppressive and evil. God also set up Babylon to punish Israel...not that Babylon was not evil itself (see Habbakuk), but He uses what He wills for His purpose. So the State can be God's servant, but that does not make it good, any more than it made Rome or Babylon good.

I guess my main fear is that we're confusing Christ and Ceasar. Maybe a Christian is called to serve in the military on occasion...but it seems as though culturally the church today almost makes it seem as though it's the highest calling. Criticism of politicans is expected, despite Rom 13:7 & 1 Pet 2:17, and we take relish in it. Criticism of preachers, elders and deacons is also ok (especially if they're national figures). But criticize the military? You might as well fall on your sword rather than speak a word against the military, given the fierce reaction of our culture of "supporting the troops".

Note that I'm not saying we shouldn't support the troops or that we should criticize the military. But what kind of church do we have today when it's ok to be disrespectful to the authorities, but NEVER ok to criticize the military who execute the authorities' commands?

I don't know. There are no easy answers. I can't control the direction of this nation, but I think we should prayerfully consider how much the church has compromised with the world...and yes, America is part of the world, even if it has been used by God.

EDIT: By "criticism of politicians" I don't just mean saying you disagree with the President or Congress. I mean saying it in a disrespectful way. Preachers will be called "courageous" for saying the most vile things about people who we are told in the Bible to respect.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

benidict

benidict
May 26, 2011
85
4
Oahu Hawaii/Paradise. :)
✟15,236.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Libertarian
Greetings All,

I realize this is quite a sensitive issue today in the United States. My own feelings have changed a lot over the ten years since 9/11. I don't think there are any easy answers, and I don't think it's a black-and-white matter.

The thing that troubles me most in all of this is not so much the specifics of the current wars or their justification (although that is a worthy discussion in and of itself). Rather, what concerns me is how blurred the lines have become betwen service to God and service to Country.

Philippians 3 really gets into this (especally v 20, "But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ") and Ephesians 6 (epecially v 12, "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.")

I think that over the last 10 years (and perhaps longer, as conservative Christians have been getting more politically active since the 1970's), the church in the US has more and more been saying that service to America = service to God. Even when our cause is just, it's not that simple.

Is the State given the sword to punish evil (Rom 13:1ff)? Yes...but keep in mind what the sword of Rome was. God set it up, but it was oppressive and evil. God also set up Babylon to punish Israel...not that Babylon was not evil itself (see Habbakuk), but He uses what He wills for His purpose. So the State can be God's servant, but that does not make it good, any more than it made Rome or Babylon good.

I guess my main fear is that we're confusing Christ and Ceasar. Maybe a Christian is called to serve in the military on occasion...but it seems as though culturally the church today almost makes it seem as though it's the highest calling. Criticism of politicans is expected, despite Rom 13:7 & 1 Pet 2:17, and we take relish in it. Criticism of preachers, elders and deacons is also ok (especially if they're national figures). But criticize the military? You might as well fall on your sword rather than speak a word against the military, given the fierce reaction of our culture of "supporting the troops".

Note that I'm not saying we shouldn't support the troops or that we should criticize the military. But what kind of church do we have today when it's ok to be disrespectful to the authorities, but NEVER ok to criticize the military who execute the authorities' commands?

I don't know. There are no easy answers. I can't control the direction of this nation, but I think we should prayerfully consider how much the church has compromised with the world...and yes, America is part of the world, even if it has been used by God.

EDIT: By "criticism of politicians" I don't just mean saying you disagree with the President or Congress. I mean saying it in a disrespectful way. Preachers will be called "courageous" for saying the most vile things about people who we are told in the Bible to respect.
I get what your saying my friend. God Bless you and yours. :wave: Personally, I feel the only just war is the one that is never waged in the first place. But....Sometimes its neccessary for Men and Women like myself, to do what needs being done. However, I would love for them to be honest with the American people as to WHY we go to war. Its never for the reasons they state. The "Cause" aspect is just to get people behind them. Such as, we are a going to get an evil dictator, Or what have you. And yes, Im happy to see evil dictators get theirs. But.....The reasons for war, are ALWAYS ECONOMICAL. Not about justice, or human rights. Rwanda did not have oil. so.....1 million dead! Im just saying. Peace to you and yours my friend, and I know you support us. I did not take your post as anything else:)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums