children working on tobacco farms

[Paradoxum]

Did you work as a teen?

I did a paper round. I don't think that made me not a brat though. I wasn't a brat before.

All teenagers should work. They become stupid brats otherwise.

You pulled that out your bum.

Some teenagers aren't stupid brats regardless of work.

It's not an absolute necessity. I mean, I didn't have a job earning any money while I was in high school (except for a very brief stint mowing lawns during the summer before my senior year to buy Silent Hill: Origins), but I do pretty well with funds. The idea is more to get used to actually managing money as opposed to just knowing what to do with it in your head. At the very least, it can be a self-esteem booster.

Yeah, I can see how it could be good. I just have a problem, 1) with people denigrating teenagers, 2) people trying to taking away peoples' childhood. We have a who lifetime to work. Leave young people to have fun.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

Did you work as a teen?

All teenagers should work. They become stupid brats otherwise.

A brat's a brat. Working as a teenager won't change that, and not working as a teenager won't turn someone into one.

 

[New Legacy]

A brat's a brat. Working as a teenager won't change that, and not working as a teenager won't turn someone into one.

I did a paper round. I don't think that made me not a brat though. I wasn't a brat before.



You pulled that out your bum.

Some teenagers aren't stupid brats regardless of work.

Working and having to pay for your own things greatly reduces the odds of turning into one. It's not a for sure thing.

Yeah, I can see how it could be good. I just have a problem, 1) with people denigrating teenagers, 2) people trying to taking away peoples' childhood. We have a who lifetime to work. Leave young people to have fun.

Not everyone thinks the same way as you do. Some young people enjoy earning their own money and having a sense of control in their lives.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

Working and having to pay for your own things greatly reduces the odds of turning into one. It's not a for sure thing.

I think that you're really overestimating how much benefit that has. It's kind of a traditional idea, that working as a teenager will keep people from being "spoiled brats". It's not been so long since I've been a teenager, though, that I've forgotten what it was actually like. Usually (not always, but usually) legitimately being an brat stems from that being the parents' attitude in life. If mom and dad think that they have a right to cut in line or to talk on the cell phone while they're ordering lunch at a restaurant, their kid is probably going to develop the same attitude pretty quickly. Likewise with other generally terrible behaviors.

If you have a parent who doesn't inculcate that attitude, who teaches you to be polite to others, and who teaches you that you don't have a right to the time of others or to positions that you haven't worked to merit, then you're probably not going to be a nuisance to society unless you develop a narcissistic personality for other reasons (and that can happen; there are some complicated psychological aspects to a person's ego, and oddly enough, having a very low self-concept can also sometimes lead to compensating with a delusional sense of grandeur).

Not everyone thinks the same way as you do. Some young people enjoy earning their own money and having a sense of control in their lives.

Some do enjoy earning their own money, but at that age, that does need to be a personal decision. You can encourage teenagers to work or encourage a child to keep track of an allowance by not buying them certain more expensive luxuries that they're likely to enjoy, but it's not the most important thing in life for them. Frankly, I'm going to go against what Paradoxum said a little bit and say that education is the most important thing in a teenager's life, even if they don't realize it yet. If having a job interferes with their school work or presents any sort of risk to their GPA (as in the example given in the OP), then the job needs to go.

 

[New Legacy]

I think that you're really overestimating how much benefit that has. It's kind of a traditional idea, that working as a teenager will keep people from being "spoiled brats". It's not been so long since I've been a teenager, though, that I've forgotten what it was actually like.

You are still young enough to think like one.

Usually (not always, but usually) legitimately being an brat stems from that being the parents' attitude in life. If mom and dad think that they have a right to cut in line or to talk on the cell phone while they're ordering lunch at a restaurant, their kid is probably going to develop the same attitude pretty quickly. Likewise with other generally terrible behaviors.

It has to do with a sense of entitlement. Our attitudes change quite a bit when we have to earn money and we have to pay for things.
I earned scholarships and worked my way through college. I'd never end up like the brats occupying wall street that thought the degree in Asian bisexual studies daddy paid for meant they must get a high paying job after college.

Some do enjoy earning their own money, but at that age, that does need to be a personal decision.

Which some would deny them.

 

[Manic Spinoza]

Working for a few hours after school when you're sixteen is a lot different than forcing an eleven year old to work 40 plus hours a week without being paid overtime where nicotine poisoning is a real threat.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

You are still young enough to think like one.

It has to do with a sense of entitlement. Our attitudes change quite a bit when we have to earn money and we have to pay for things.

I earned scholarships and worked my way through college. I'd never end up like the brats occupying wall street that thought the degree in Asian bisexual studies daddy paid for meant they must get a high paying job after college.

Talking down to people and acting like you know someone who you've only ever spoken to once on an Internet forum is not a good way to make your argument. It sounds to me like you're basically reiterating what you said earlier, but with an air of condescension that somehow makes it more likely to be right. I'll just let my argument from the last post stand, because this changes absolute nothing about whether or not it's true.

Which some would deny them.

Who, exactly?

 

[New Legacy]

Talking down to people and acting like you know someone who you've only ever spoken to once on an Internet forum is not a good way to make your argument.

I agree, it's a good thing I didn't do that.

It sounds to me like you're basically reiterating what you said earlier, but with an air of condescension that somehow makes it more likely to be right. I'll just let my argument from the last post stand, because this changes absolute nothing about whether or not it's true.

Okay.

Generally people that disagree with others are taken as condescending by those whom consider their views beyond questioning.

 

[ObamaChristian]

You are still young enough to think like one.



It has to do with a sense of entitlement. Our attitudes change quite a bit when we have to earn money and we have to pay for things.
I earned scholarships and worked my way through college. I'd never end up like the brats occupying wall street that thought the degree in Asian bisexual studies daddy paid for meant they must get a high paying job after college.



Which some would deny them.

You sound like a brat talking down the people who did the occupy wall street movement. I can promise you, if all of their dads paid for them in college, they wouldn't be asking for lower student interest rates on their loans as a demand.

Making fun of Asian Bisexual studies? Is that some snobby talk down of people who studied liberal arts or other cultures? Cause encompassed in that "Asian Bisexual Studies" comment, I see racism against Asian people, suggesting their culture is not worth studying, and I see sexist orientation discrimination against bisexuals. I guess maybe not working as a teenager is a good thing or people might turn into anti-asian and anti-bisexual people like you.

Also plenty of working people supported the occupy wall street movement.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...py_Wall_Street_October_5_2011_Shankbone_3.JPG

Since when does protesting and exercising your first amendment rights make you a brat? Learn something about the movement why don't you.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

I agree, it's a good thing I didn't do that.

It strikes me, and most people, as a condescending attempt to shut down debate when your post opens with, "You are still young enough to think like [a teenager]", in a way that is clearly intended for that to sound like it challenges the validity of the other person's argument. Pointing out that I'm young enough to remember being a teenager implies a distance between myself then and now, and although it is a short distance chronologically, a five year gap in age at 22 is a very significant gap when it comes to maturity. While there are some superficial similarities between what I said and this part of your post, my goal was not to poison the well. Instead, I was pointing out that it's easy for many people to forget some aspects of their childhood as they get older, and to look at similar problems to those that existed when they were younger as innovations that have sprung it being in the newer generation. Your generation also had brats, or there wouldn't be so many adult ones running around, but people like that are a thankfully minor part of the life of most individuals. They sink into the background, and nostalgia wipes them out of your past pretty quickly.

Beyond that, references to changing your mind when you have to "earn money" and "pay for stuff" suggests that the other person doesn't have to do those things. It's absolutely a dangerous assumption when you're talking about someone who is over the age of 18, because unfortunately the world is not perfect, and some people have been kicked out of their homes, run away, etc. In my case, none of those things have happened, but I do have to be mostly financially independent of my relatives because my family is poor enough that I probably have the highest net income of anyone immediately related to me. That isn't saying a lot, but it does mean that I have to pay for my apartment, utilities, car, fuel for that car, food, and pretty much anything else that I want, which means holding a job while I'm in graduate school. That's well over a 40 hour work week, all things considered. It's probably closer to 60. Over the summer, I thankfully have some free time, and it is dearly earned.

Okay.

Generally people that disagree with others are taken as condescending by those whom consider their views beyond questioning.

I would challenge that you also see your view on this as beyond questioning, at least by me. It certainly doesn't seem like you've considered my argument as being even potentially legitimate.

 

[morningstar2651]

I wish I knew that Asian Bisexual studies was a major. I would have loved to study some bisexual Asians in college.

I guess I could always go back to school...

 

[Needing_Grace]

I think that you're really overestimating how much benefit that has. It's kind of a traditional idea, that working as a teenager will keep people from being "spoiled brats". It's not been so long since I've been a teenager, though, that I've forgotten what it was actually like. Usually (not always, but usually) legitimately being an brat stems from that being the parents' attitude in life. If mom and dad think that they have a right to cut in line or to talk on the cell phone while they're ordering lunch at a restaurant, their kid is probably going to develop the same attitude pretty quickly. Likewise with other generally terrible behaviors.

If you have a parent who doesn't inculcate that attitude, who teaches you to be polite to others, and who teaches you that you don't have a right to the time of others or to positions that you haven't worked to merit, then you're probably not going to be a nuisance to society unless you develop a narcissistic personality for other reasons (and that can happen; there are some complicated psychological aspects to a person's ego, and oddly enough, having a very low self-concept can also sometimes lead to compensating with a delusional sense of grandeur).

Every time I see a young person acting like an uneducated knave, I look to the parents and see them acting similarly or just not caring how their offspring behave.

Whatever happened to simple manners?

Just...don't get me started.

Some do enjoy earning their own money, but at that age, that does need to be a personal decision. You can encourage teenagers to work or encourage a child to keep track of an allowance by not buying them certain more expensive luxuries that they're likely to enjoy, but it's not the most important thing in life for them. Frankly, I'm going to go against what Paradoxum said a little bit and say that education is the most important thing in a teenager's life, even if they don't realize it yet. If having a job interferes with their school work or presents any sort of risk to their GPA (as in the example given in the OP), then the job needs to go.

Agreed. The first job of a young person is to LEARN.

Heck, when I retire, I plan on going back to school so I don't lose the habit of learning.

 

[morningstar2651]

A working teen can be as much of a spoiled brat as one without a job. At one of my previous retail jobs, we had to lock the kids' cell phones up at the start of their shifts because they kept going into the break-room to text people and post to Facebook.

When the store manager is your friend on Facebook, don't make posts to your wall during your shift.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

Every time I see a young person acting like an uneducated knave, I look to the parents and see them acting similarly or just not caring how their offspring behave.

Whatever happened to simple manners?

I think that, when someone acts like that as a teenager, people just tend to attribute it to the fact that they're young. Then, they go from that to the idea that young people "these days" are all entitled because they don't work, or because they're given everything, or because they grew up in a "me" culture, or because...you get the point. In reality, though, almost everyone who I met like that when I was younger (and everyone who I've met like that recently, for that matter) has been a scaled-down mirror image of their parents. The one exception I knew was a guy who would alternately try to cut people down, and then break down crying because he though that no one appreciated his genius and leadership abilities. To anyone who knew him, it was obvious that he was suffering from some deep depression.

Agreed. The first job of a young person is to LEARN.

Heck, when I retire, I plan on going back to school so I don't loose the habit of learning.

I put a high value on education for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, it has utility. Even the dreaded degree in "Asian bisexual studies" is better than having no degree at all. Sure, a degree like that won't make you rich and your family might be disappointed in you if they're higher income, but even a college degree in something like sociology, the liberal arts, or (the closest real proxy to the ABS degree) women's and gender studies pays off with an average starting salary of between $25,000 and $35,000 a year.

That sort of pay isn't very high, but it's significantly above the poverty line and allows for a high quality of life if the person's chief goal isn't a high income. Contrary to popular belief, people who major in something like W & G studies aren't idiots. They know that they aren't going to make as much money as they would if they had majored in business or engineering, but they choose to study something that they find satisfying. Theology students also get paid in the same range and generally know that their pay is going to be limited by their course of study, but I very rarely hear anyone complaining that their degrees are worthless. Some people who major in programs like this also use them as a platform to go to graduate school (often for law).

At the core of the matter, though, is the fact that I honestly view education as pretty much the best available bastion against totalitarianism in general and Bonapartism in particular. An educated populace is more likely to reject dogmatic authoritarian ideologies, and to evaluate political positions in a logical way rather than based on emotional appeals.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I wish I knew that Asian Bisexual studies was a major. I would have loved to study some bisexual Asians in college.

I guess I could always go back to school...

 

[morningstar2651]

In all seriousness, I am planning to go for a master's degree starting in the Fall. My employer offers tuition reimbursement. I highly recommend looking into such a benefit at your employer as well.

Unfortunately, my employer's benefit is capped at a level that makes my ideal degree (Data Science from Berkeley) unaffordable. Looks like I'll have to go for a management degree instead.

 

[iluvatar5150]

In all seriousness, I am planning to go for a master's degree starting in the Fall. My employer offers tuition reimbursement. I highly recommend looking into such a benefit at your employer as well.

Unfortunately, my employer's benefit is capped at a level that makes my ideal degree (Data Science from Berkeley) unaffordable. Looks like I'll have to go for a management degree instead.

I've thought about it. I work in audio production, so even if my employer offered tuition assistance, a master's wouldn't really do much to advance my career. I've thought about something like arts/entertainment management, but a lot of those programs are geared more towards people working for non-profits like museums and theater companies.

 

[Paradoxum]

Working and having to pay for your own things greatly reduces the odds of turning into one. It's not a for sure thing.

Maybe.

Not everyone thinks the same way as you do. Some young people enjoy earning their own money and having a sense of control in their lives.

I had a small job as a teenager. I'm not against them having jobs, I'm against people trying to pressure teens into having jobs. Ie: let them make their own decision.

 

[Belk]

nope, its something I for one have experienced and witness, my kids are smarter, more independent, responsible, and respectful than the vast majority of their peers. Their teachers praise them, and hold them as the example, they stay on A B honor roll, and have never been in serious trouble at school.

And all it took was sending them out to work twelve hour shifts in 100 degree heat with no supplied water or safety gear. What parent would not want that for their children?

 

[JoshuaDaryl]

. Ie: let them make their own decision.

Teens are kids. As such children do not know what is best for them. Some would suggest even up into the early 20s children's brains are not fully mature. Ancient Israel did not consider a man to be a fully mature man until 30. Girls do mature faster and earlier than boys.