Chicago students to miss a second day of classes as teachers remain at home

[ThatRobGuy]

Chicago students miss out on remote and in-person learning after a deadlock between the teachers union and school district - CNN

With still no agreement between school system administrators and teachers, some 340,000 students will miss class again Thursday, the Chicago Public Schools CEO said.

"Right now, as I'm looking as what is happening with our staff, where they are being discouraged from coming to our buildings, we have no choice but to cancel classes tomorrow," Chicago Public Schools CEO Pedro Martinez said at a news conference Wednesday.
A letter sent to the students' families says, "Caregivers should not plan to send their children to school."
Earlier Wednesday, the president of the Chicago Teachers Union said students might be out of school for two weeks if the two sides can't reach a resolution on Covid-19 safety measures.


The showdown in the nation's third-largest school district exemplifies debates playing out across the country: When and how should students return to classrooms during the Omicron variant surge?

A day after in-person learning resumed Monday, the union voted Tuesday night to teach virtually instead.



Let it be noted, if any members of the Chicago teachers' union says "follow the science" again, they don't really mean it.

Fauci: 'It's safe enough to get those kids back to school'

According to Fauci (and other epidemiologists):
Fauci: 'It's safe enough to get those kids back to school'


It should also be noted, this isn't the first time the city of Chicago (or the state of Illinois as a whole) has had some "issues" with their public sector unions demanding unreasonable terms.

Public sector unions in Chicago were also the reason that the state of Illinois was literally the only state in in the union to have a credit rating so low, that one more downgrade would've put them in "junk status". (despite having one of the highest tax revenues in the country)

And this isn't the first time they've tried to exploit the pandemic. They tried to get a bailout to replenish their public sector union pension funds under the guise of "covid relief" when this thing all started. They asked for a $46 billion dollar relief package ($10 billion of which was marked for replenishing their public sector union funds, which were already in the toilet pre-pandemic)


Is it time to for Fauci and scientific consensus to trump Illinois public sector unions?

 

[The Narrow Way]

UNIONS are ruining America. UNIONS are lazy. They want PAY with NO WORK. I have no respect for the teachers unions. They would rather the kids be out on the street, joining the gangs.

 

[iluvatar5150]

UNIONS are ruining America. UNIONS are lazy. They want PAY with NO WORK. I have no respect for the teachers unions. They would rather the kids be out on the street, joining the gangs.

What are you talking about? Aside from a small uptick last year, union participation in the US is at the lowest point in decades.

Given the constant wailing and gnashing of teeth regarding $15/hr minimum wage, it would seem that the bigger problem is that employers want work with no pay.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Given the constant wailing and gnashing of teeth regarding $15/hr minimum wage, it would seem that the bigger problem is that employers want work with no pay.

I think a strong case can be made for public sector unions to a degree (they serve a valid purpose, and someone who's dedicated their life to a particular vocation shouldn't have to take a pay cut because someone decided to pass a partisan levy to restrict the funding their pay comes out of)

That said, Illinois (and the Chicago Teachers' Union in particular) has had some very unique issues that are specific to them over the past 15 years that most other cities don't have to deal with.

For instance, NYC's and LA's public unions haven't brought their respective states to the brink of "junk status" credit ratings due to the state budget office having to cave to unreasonable demands just so kids can go to school.

Chicago's teachers' union has had a track record of gratuitously using the "striking" or "walk-out" approach, often for things that go beyond the scope of public education, or even their jobs & pay.

The last time they did this was 2019 (pre-pandemic), and one of the key reasons they gave for their strike (or as they called it, a walk-out) was "demanding housing equity". The city even offered a blanket 16% pay raise, but that still wasn't good enough (despite teachers in Chicago already making a decent penny)

Striking and "collective action" by a union was supposed to be reserved for protection of jobs, and their rights as workers, not to hold the city hostage over the "consensus" political preferences with sort of a "until the laws reflect my preferences, your kids don't get to go to school" stand-off.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I think a strong case can be made for public sector unions to a degree (they serve a valid purpose, and someone who's dedicated their life to a particular vocation shouldn't have to take a pay cut because someone decided to pass a partisan levy to restrict the funding their pay comes out of)

That said, Illinois (and the Chicago Teachers' Union in particular) has had some very unique issues that are specific to them over the past 15 years that most other cities don't have to deal with.

For instance, NYC's and LA's public unions haven't brought their respective states to the brink of "junk status" credit ratings due to the state budget office having to cave to unreasonable demands just so kids can go to school.

When did this happen? From articles I could find from 2017, the credit rating agencies put the primary cause of a status downgrade as the deadlock between the governor and the legislature over agreeing on a budget.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

When did this happen? From articles I could find from 2017, the credit rating agencies put the primary cause of a status downgrade as the deadlock between the governor and the legislature over agreeing on a budget.

(for the other part of my post regarding the teacher's union striking 'willy nilly')
Teacher strikes are changing. The Chicago walkout proves it.

(for your question...Per CNN)
How Illinois became America's most messed-up state

Illinois is on the verge of becoming America's first state with a junk credit rating. The financial mess is the inevitable result of spending more on pensions and services than the state could afford -- then covering it up with reckless budget tricks.

After decades of historic mismanagement, Illinois is now grappling with $15 billion of unpaid bills and an unthinkable quarter-trillion dollars owed to public employees when they retire.

The budget crisis has forced Illinois to jack up property taxes so high that people are leaving in droves. Illinois may soon have to take the unprecedented step of cutting off sales of lottery tickets because the state won't be able to pay winners.

While the budget impasse is throwing a spotlight on Illinois's dire financial situation today, the fiscal problems go back at least to the 1980s and involve politicians from both parties.

The most glaring evidence is the enormous pension crisis. Rather than dealing with the problem, Illinois continued to reward the state's powerful unions with more generous benefits.

 

[iluvatar5150]

(for the other part of my post regarding the teacher's union striking 'willy nilly')
Teacher strikes are changing. The Chicago walkout proves it.

(for your question...Per CNN)
How Illinois became America's most messed-up state

Illinois is on the verge of becoming America's first state with a junk credit rating. The financial mess is the inevitable result of spending more on pensions and services than the state could afford -- then covering it up with reckless budget tricks.

After decades of historic mismanagement, Illinois is now grappling with $15 billion of unpaid bills and an unthinkable quarter-trillion dollars owed to public employees when they retire.

The budget crisis has forced Illinois to jack up property taxes so high that people are leaving in droves. Illinois may soon have to take the unprecedented step of cutting off sales of lottery tickets because the state won't be able to pay winners.

While the budget impasse is throwing a spotlight on Illinois's dire financial situation today, the fiscal problems go back at least to the 1980s and involve politicians from both parties.

The most glaring evidence is the enormous pension crisis. Rather than dealing with the problem, Illinois continued to reward the state's powerful unions with more generous benefits.

Neither of those articles (nor the ones that I found from the same time period) put the blame on the unions. They all put it on decades (actually, a century at this point) of negligent politicians.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Neither of those articles (nor the ones that I found from the same time period) put the blame on the unions. They all put it on decades (actually, a century at this point) of negligent politicians.

These parts in particular:
Illinois is now grappling with $15 billion of unpaid bills and an unthinkable quarter-trillion dollars owed to public employees when they retire.

Rather than dealing with the problem, Illinois continued to reward the state's powerful unions with more generous benefits.

One might be able to say it's the politicians fault for not putting their foot down and doing a better job playing hardball in negotiations.

But the root of the problem is unrealistic demands from their public sector unions.


This article does a pretty good job of explaining what's unique with Illinois public sector unions compared to that of other states.

Illinois Unions: IEA might be the biggest, but Liuna, SEIU, others write bigger checks. - Center for Illinois Politics

As does this one

Unions flood politicians with cash: How it buys clout in Illinois General Assembly | Illinois Policy

One of the most glaring things, is that Illinois' unions have a habit of using their influence to kill bills that have wide bipartisan support.

One such example:
"
Another example: the Nurse Licensure Compact. To date, 34 states have joined a national compact that recognizes the licenses for all nurses working in states that belong to the compact. Illinois had the opportunity to join the compact through Senate Bill 2068, sponsored by state Sen. Sara Feigenholtz, D-Chicago. Illinois already faced a shortage of nurses before the COVID-19 pandemic began, and SB 2068 would have allowed more nurses to come to Illinois and help alleviate the state’s long-term shortage.

The bill was unanimously passed by the Senate Licensed Activities Committee and supporters of the bill greatly outnumbered opponents. Despite bipartisan support for both the House and Senate versions of the bill, it was opposed by the Illinois AFL-CIO, the Illinois Nurses Association and the Chicago Federation of Labor, and it never received another vote.
"

That's a bubble that had to burst at some point. Illinois politicians (on both sides) have had a bad habit of caving to demands

Another thing that also makes Illinois unique, is that for the longest time, there was no limit on how much unions could donate to state-level political causes and candidates.

Many states prohibit it, and even other "union-friendly" and "labor-friendly" states set limits (for instance, California & NY set the limit at whatever the limit is for an individual contribution)

For instance, Here's what California's looks like

Here is New York (a little more wordy):

Illinois on the other hand:

Illinois has uniquely powerful unions compared to their counterparts in other states. And as a result, has had undue influence in the political processes in that state for decades.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that
"Entity being allowed to throw unlimited amounts of cash at the people who will end up deciding how much public funds said entity will receive" is the recipe for disaster.

Illinois' situation is problematic for all of the same reasons as people cite when they talk about need federal level campaign finance reform.

 

[iluvatar5150]

These parts in particular:
Illinois is now grappling with $15 billion of unpaid bills and an unthinkable quarter-trillion dollars owed to public employees when they retire.

Rather than dealing with the problem, Illinois continued to reward the state's powerful unions with more generous benefits.

One might be able to say it's the politicians fault for not putting their foot down and doing a better job playing hardball in negotiations.

But the root of the problem is unrealistic demands from their public sector unions.


This article does a pretty good job of explaining what's unique with Illinois public sector unions compared to that of other states.

Illinois Unions: IEA might be the biggest, but Liuna, SEIU, others write bigger checks. - Center for Illinois Politics

As does this one

Unions flood politicians with cash: How it buys clout in Illinois General Assembly | Illinois Policy

One of the most glaring things, is that Illinois' unions have a habit of using their influence to kill bills that have wide bipartisan support.

One such example:
"
Another example: the Nurse Licensure Compact. To date, 34 states have joined a national compact that recognizes the licenses for all nurses working in states that belong to the compact. Illinois had the opportunity to join the compact through Senate Bill 2068, sponsored by state Sen. Sara Feigenholtz, D-Chicago. Illinois already faced a shortage of nurses before the COVID-19 pandemic began, and SB 2068 would have allowed more nurses to come to Illinois and help alleviate the state’s long-term shortage.

The bill was unanimously passed by the Senate Licensed Activities Committee and supporters of the bill greatly outnumbered opponents. Despite bipartisan support for both the House and Senate versions of the bill, it was opposed by the Illinois AFL-CIO, the Illinois Nurses Association and the Chicago Federation of Labor, and it never received another vote.
"

That's a bubble that had to burst at some point. Illinois politicians (on both sides) have had a bad habit of caving to demands

Another thing that also makes Illinois unique, is that for the longest time, there was no limit on how much unions could donate to state-level political causes and candidates.

Many states prohibit it, and even other "union-friendly" and "labor-friendly" states set limits (for instance, California & NY set the limit at whatever the limit is for an individual contribution)

For instance, Here's what California's looks like
View attachment 310701

Here is New York (a little more wordy):
View attachment 310702

Illinois on the other hand:
View attachment 310703


Illinois has uniquely powerful unions compared to their counterparts in other states. And as a result, has had undue influence in the political processes in that state for decades.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that
"Entity being allowed to throw unlimited amounts of cash at the people who will end up deciding how much public funds said entity will receive" is the recipe for disaster.

Illinois' situation is problematic for all of the same reasons as people cite when they talk about need federal level campaign finance reform.

I didn't say the unions were blameless. I said they're not the primary bad actors.

Yes, McDonald's is bad for making and marketing unhealthy food that's cheap, but you're still the one who chose to eat there 3x a day. I wasn't being hyperbolic when I said their pension liability problems go back a century - that's not just the teacher's union doing that.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I didn't say the unions were blameless. I said they're not the primary bad actors.

Yes, McDonald's is bad for making and marketing unhealthy food that's cheap, but you're still the one who chose to eat there 3x a day. I wasn't being hyperbolic when I said their pension liability problems go back a century - that's not just the teacher's union doing that.

Well, sure...

But when an entity basically can "make or break" a candidate, that's a unique level of power.

We're used to seeing that at a federal level (as we just always assume that's what goes on), but when you see the differences on how it plays out at a state level - when they don't have and endless supply of new money to create from the federal reserve like the federal government can - it shows more of the "organic" end result.

A person with a "spending problem" (but with a rich dad who gives them a credit card) doesn't have the same visible signs of distress as a person who's "on their own" so to speak.

 

[smittymatt]

Chicago students miss out on remote and in-person learning after a deadlock between the teachers union and school district - CNN

With still no agreement between school system administrators and teachers, some 340,000 students will miss class again Thursday, the Chicago Public Schools CEO said.

"Right now, as I'm looking as what is happening with our staff, where they are being discouraged from coming to our buildings, we have no choice but to cancel classes tomorrow," Chicago Public Schools CEO Pedro Martinez said at a news conference Wednesday.
A letter sent to the students' families says, "Caregivers should not plan to send their children to school."
Earlier Wednesday, the president of the Chicago Teachers Union said students might be out of school for two weeks if the two sides can't reach a resolution on Covid-19 safety measures.


The showdown in the nation's third-largest school district exemplifies debates playing out across the country: When and how should students return to classrooms during the Omicron variant surge?

A day after in-person learning resumed Monday, the union voted Tuesday night to teach virtually instead.



Let it be noted, if any members of the Chicago teachers' union says "follow the science" again, they don't really mean it.

Fauci: 'It's safe enough to get those kids back to school'

According to Fauci (and other epidemiologists):
Fauci: 'It's safe enough to get those kids back to school'


It should also be noted, this isn't the first time the city of Chicago (or the state of Illinois as a whole) has had some "issues" with their public sector unions demanding unreasonable terms.

Public sector unions in Chicago were also the reason that the state of Illinois was literally the only state in in the union to have a credit rating so low, that one more downgrade would've put them in "junk status". (despite having one of the highest tax revenues in the country)

And this isn't the first time they've tried to exploit the pandemic. They tried to get a bailout to replenish their public sector union pension funds under the guise of "covid relief" when this thing all started. They asked for a $46 billion dollar relief package ($10 billion of which was marked for replenishing their public sector union funds, which were already in the toilet pre-pandemic)


Is it time to for Fauci and scientific consensus to trump Illinois public sector unions?

You are the first atheist on this forum who I gave their post a green check mark.

 

[HannahT]

Striking and "collective action" by a union was supposed to be reserved for protection of jobs, and their rights as workers, not to hold the city hostage over the "consensus" political preferences with sort of a "until the laws reflect my preferences, your kids don't get to go to school" stand-off.

Illinois has pensions, etc. that they can't pay due to promises of the past. Then they didn't do anything to fix it, because the red tape stops them. They have been hinting that the federal government needs to help them out there - like many other states in trouble - but unless they fix what is broken? It won't help anything.

Chicago teachers union IMO is run by a bunch of crooks. They never cared about the children, but I'm sure the actual teachers do. We lived in that area for about 50 years, and left about 3 years ago when he retired because we saw the writing on the wall. Both of our parents were transferred there when we were children, because of the opportunities, etc. We left because its dying and getting worse. You can't afford to retire nicely there, and the price you pay to live there? The services should be the best, but they aren't.

What's strange to me under this last closing? Teachers can go to the bar and drink, but they can't teach the kids in schools. They can go out to dinner with their family, but its to scary to be around children so lock the schools up. They can do all the things we do in normal life, but work is scary because KIDS will get them sick. Most people would miss their miss paychecks with that attitude, but not others that have the luxury to not worry about it because they will.

They (the adults there) put themselves first and foremost at the expense of the children. In the past it was the opposite attitude. You do what is best for the kids, because they are our future. Not so much anymore. I feel bad for the teachers, because they are caught in the middle of this selfish game. Everyone knows the kids suffer, but not everyone cares.

 

[rambot]

As a teacher I can tell you where the problem lies...at least for me to I've talked to.

We can see the writing on the wall.

Too many teachers will be sick and there will be no subs. At my school 2 or our 3 admin our sick. I have no idea what happens if we don't have any admin by Monday; never taught without one...didn't think it was possible.

For about 70% of our ea sick days in the first half of the year there was no coverage. Most of our districts subs are retired teachers and many of them are scared to come in.

You can't have 5 classes studying in a gym and think anyone is learning.

It could be a different kind of lack of safety if there are not enough teachers at the schools.