Charismatics Are At War With Each Other Over Failed Prophecies Of Trump Victory

[lismore]

Hello topher and tturt. The examples of Nathan and Jonah, I would respectfully disagree with your conclusion but perhaps we can look at that another time.

But as to what brother RDKirk wrote. I agree with him. These 'prophets' in question have been consistently wrong for a long time now. It's not like they got a detail here or there wrong, 100% of them were 100% wrong! They got absolutely everything wrong! They weren't right about anything!

Jeremiah 23:
25 “I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say, ‘I had a dream! I had a dream!’ 26 How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds? 27 They think the dreams they tell one another will make my people forget my name, just as their ancestors forgot my name through Baal worship. 28 Let the prophet who has a dream recount the dream, but let the one who has my word speak it faithfully. For what has straw to do with grain?” declares the Lord. 29 “Is not my word like fire,” declares the Lord, “and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?

30 “Therefore,” declares the Lord, “I am against the prophets who steal from one another words supposedly from me. 31 Yes,” declares the Lord, “I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare, ‘The Lord declares.’ 32 Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” declares the Lord. “They tell them and lead my people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send or appoint them. They do not benefit these people in the least,” declares the Lord.

What was spoken through the true Prophet Jeremiah IMHO stands. Listening to the like of Copeland, Katt Kerr, P Robertson, H Kuneman etc does not benefit anyone in the least.

You will notice that these prophets rarely want to speak about the word of God, it's all about them, the dream or vision they had or what they say God said to them. It is turning people's minds away from the true God. God Bless

 

[topher694]

If he continues to call himself a prophet but his prophesies don't happen, he is a false prophet.

This is NOT the standard of a false prophet. It's a red flag no doubt, but because something doesn't happen does not make a prophet false. False prophets can actually release accurate prophesies.

 

[topher694]

Hello topher and tturt. The examples of Nathan and Jonah, I would respectfully disagree with your conclusion but perhaps we can look at that another time.

But as to what brother RDKirk wrote. I agree with him. These 'prophets' in question have been consistently wrong for a long time now. It's not like they got a detail here or there wrong, 100% of them were 100% wrong! They got absolutely everything wrong! They weren't right about anything!

Jeremiah 23:
25 “I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say, ‘I had a dream! I had a dream!’ 26 How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds? 27 They think the dreams they tell one another will make my people forget my name, just as their ancestors forgot my name through Baal worship. 28 Let the prophet who has a dream recount the dream, but let the one who has my word speak it faithfully. For what has straw to do with grain?” declares the Lord. 29 “Is not my word like fire,” declares the Lord, “and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?

30 “Therefore,” declares the Lord, “I am against the prophets who steal from one another words supposedly from me. 31 Yes,” declares the Lord, “I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare, ‘The Lord declares.’ 32 Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” declares the Lord. “They tell them and lead my people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send or appoint them. They do not benefit these people in the least,” declares the Lord.

What was spoken through the true Prophet Jeremiah IMHO stands. Listening to the like of Copeland, Katt Kerr, P Robertson, H Kuneman etc does not benefit anyone in the least.

You will notice that these prophets rarely want to speak about the word of God, it's all about them, the dream or vision they had or what they say God said to them. It is turning people's minds away from the true God. God Bless

The Jeremiah scripture supports what I have been saying.

As far as I know only one person you listed actually calls themselves a prophet.

 

[RDKirk]

Or he could be a deceived man, full of pride who is foolishly claiming to be a something he is not, but still not intentionally deceiving. Actually, I just described a whole lot of people, Christians included. Such a person would need a whole lot of personal healing and sanctification... again just like a whole lot of people, Christians included.

He's still not a prophet.

 

[topher694]

He's still not a prophet.

Agreed. He's also not a false prophet. One might even say he was... mistaken

 

[tturt]

It's easy to tell in these discussions who God uses in the prophetic.

 

[Andrewn]

At some point after many failed prophesies, an honest man would conclude, "This is not my gift" and do something different.

He's also not a false prophet. One might even say he was... mistaken

I don't care whether one calls them false prophets or mistaken prophets. Just find another job that doesn't involve teaching. This is if they're honest.

 

[topher694]

I don't care whether one calls them false prophets or mistaken prophets. Just find another job that doesn't involve teaching. This is if they're honest.

I would tend to agree. The problem for most people like this is a lack of oversight and accountability coupled with the instant audience the internet can provide. With those two things in action, and a little self justification why would they stop?

 

[lismore]

I don't care whether one calls them false prophets or mistaken prophets. Just find another job that doesn't involve teaching. This is if they're honest.

Yes. The immediate and urgent priority is for these people to stop talking. Looking on youtube there are literally hundreds of videos by Atheists and Muslims mocking the gospel because of what these 'prophets' have said and are still saying. False prophets, mistaken prophets, lying prophets, it's splitting hairs. What they're saying is not true. It's bringing ridicule to the gospel. God Bless

 

[Pioneer3mm]

Yes. The immediate and urgent priority is for these people to stop talking. Looking on youtube there are literally hundreds of videos by Atheists and Muslims mocking the gospel because of what these 'prophets' have said and are still saying. False prophets, mistaken prophets, lying prophets, it's splitting hairs. What they're saying is not true. It's bringing ridicule to the gospel. God Bless

Good point..
----
In recent years, there has been many prophecies..
concerning 'politics/political arena.'
- Most of them were proven to be wrong.
- Many Christians were lured into it..
---
More 'spiritual discernment/discerning of spirits' is needed..nowadays.

 

[Andrewn]

Yes. The immediate and urgent priority is for these people to stop talking. Looking on youtube there are literally hundreds of videos by Atheists and Muslims mocking the gospel because of what these 'prophets' have said and are still saying. False prophets, mistaken prophets, lying prophets, it's splitting hairs. What they're saying is not true. It's bringing ridicule to the gospel. God Bless

Some of them still expect election results to be turned around in March!!

It almost reminds me of the "Great Disappointment" that followed Baptist preacher William Miller's proclamations that Jesus Christ would return to the Earth by 1844, what he called the Advent.

Great Disappointment - Wikipedia.

 

[geetrue]

I'm a little confused on why these (by now) false prophets have not repented of being wrong. I followed no one in my prophecy (I prefer to call it a Word of Knowledge that Trump would win a second term and then turn the WH over to VP Mike Pence, but after November 3rd when Trump lost I started looking for answers on why and ran into Dutch Sheets ... So I followed him on youtube, but that led to the KCM show he was on with others I don't follow and my faith started to drop. They are still rambling on over there on the what is called the Victory channel now about how it's not over and how Trump is still going to win.

Like with homosexuals God will let you make a mistake in order to teach you a lesson and turn you over to the desires of your flesh.

My prayers were wasted for President Trump and now I feel they would be wasted for these unconfessed false prophets.

It's Saturday morning and I haven't had my coffee yet ... Lord have mercy on our country

 

[Hazelelponi]

My prayers were wasted for President Trump and now I feel they would be wasted for these unconfessed false prophets.

It's Saturday morning and I haven't had my coffee yet ... Lord have mercy on our country

First, prayers are never wasted. If anything, I see this a couple of ways...

Too many people were seeing Trump, (a man) as the answer. God never wants us to look to men, He wants us to look to Him. For the Christian, this is what God wants from us, and to teach us from this. God is our rock, our strength, our salvation... no matter what circumstance we find ourselves in, in Him, all will be well... it may not be what we desire, but it will be according to His plan, and in Him we are safe.

Second, it's to expose a lack of discernment, both in us, as well as in certain leaders. It shows us who not to listen to concerning Scriptural matters.

There absolutely are good and spirit filled Pastors in our faith, it's time for many to seek them out and find them, and leave those who don't know Him behind.

 

[RDKirk]

First, prayers are never wasted. If anything, I see this a couple of ways...

Too many people were seeing Trump, (a man) as the answer. God never wants us to look to men, He wants us to look to Him. For the Christian, this is what God wants from us, and to teach us from this. God is our rock, our strength, our salvation... no matter what circumstance we find ourselves in, in Him, all will be well... it may not be what we desire, but it will be according to His plan, and in Him we are safe.

Second, it's to expose a lack of discernment, both in us, as well as in certain leaders. It shows us who not to listen to concerning Scriptural matters.

There absolutely are good and spirit filled Pastors in our faith, it's time for many to seek them out and find them, and leave those who don't know Him behind.

I generally agree, but sometimes prayers are wasted, and sometimes prayers are deadly.

If Peter had prayed for Jesus to be rescued from crucifixion, would that prayer not have been wasted?

A prayer opens a person up to spiritual forces. A prayer for evil (that which is not the will of God for that time and that place) opens a person up to spiritual evil...even if the name of Jesus is thrown into it. Using the name of Jesus does not turn a prayer for evil into a prayer for good. That prayer will still attract spiritual evil.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I generally agree, but sometimes prayers are wasted, and sometimes prayers are deadly.

If Peter had prayed for Jesus to be rescued from crucifixion, would that prayer not have been wasted?

A prayer opens a person up to spiritual forces. A prayer for evil (that which is not the will of God for that time and that place) opens a person up to spiritual evil...even if the name of Jesus is thrown into it. Using the name of Jesus does not turn a prayer for evil into a prayer for good. That prayer will still attract spiritual evil.

I don't think we open ourselves up to evil when we share with God our desires...

Jesus Himself prayed:

"Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." " Matthew 26:39

The point of prayer is both the relationship aspect with God, and God conforming our wills to His Perfect Will... this is why we pray "your will be done on earth as it is in heaven" we are praying God conform us to His Perfect Image, to want and to will what He wants and Wills.

In this, no prayer is "wasted"... only by praying evil are we opening ourselves to evil (cursing others instead of asking God to forgive the ignorant etc) When we simply share our desires with God in a relationship setting, and ask to be conformed to His will regardless of what that will is, that is relationship building, bringing us closer to God, and allowing us over time to better discern God's Will for our lives in a variety of situations.

The only real evil would be to determine your will greater or more worthy than God's.

 

[RDKirk]

I don't think we open ourselves up to evil when we share with God our desires...

Jesus Himself prayed:

"Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." " Matthew 26:39

The point of prayer is both the relationship aspect with God, and God conforming our wills to His Perfect Will... this is why we pray "your will be done on earth as it is in heaven" we are praying God conform us to His Perfect Image, to want and to will what He wants and Wills.

In this, no prayer is "wasted"... only by praying evil are we opening ourselves to evil (cursing others instead of asking God to forgive the ignorant etc) When we simply share our desires with God in a relationship setting, and ask to be conformed to His will regardless of what that will is, that is relationship building, bringing us closer to God, and allowing us over time to better discern God's Will for our lives in a variety of situations.

The only real evil would be to determine your will greater or more worthy than God's.

I did say: "...a prayer for evil..."

 

[Andrewn]

My prayers were wasted for President Trump and now I feel they would be wasted for these unconfessed false prophets.

Today being Super Bawl day, it's suitable to mention that I don't like the idea of praying for one's favorite team, be that Kansas City, Tampa Bay, team Trump, or team Biden.

Such prayer automatically implies praying against the other team. By praying evil against other, one opens themselves to evil. But, it's OK to share our desires with God and ask that His will be done. As @Hazelelponi wrote:

"When we simply share our desires with God in a relationship setting, and ask to be conformed to His will regardless of what that will is, that is relationship building, bringing us closer to God, and allowing us over time to better discern God's Will for our lives in a variety of situations."

Of course, after it became clear that Biden won the election, it became incumbent upon all Christians to pray for him and his administration:

1Ti 2:2 Pray for kings and everyone who is in authority so that we can live a quiet and peaceful life in complete godliness and dignity.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Today being Super Bawl day, it's suitable to mention that I don't like the idea of praying for one's favorite team, be that Kansas City, Tampa Bay, or team Trump.

Such prayer automatically implies praying against the other team. By praying evil against other, one opens themselves to evil. But, as @Hazelelponi wrote:

"When we simply share our desires with God in a relationship setting, and ask to be conformed to His will regardless of what that will is, that is relationship building, bringing us closer to God, and allowing us over time to better discern God's Will for our lives in a variety of situations."

I don't think praying for someone you think will do positive things for your nation is praying evil against anyone, it's simply praying for what you see as a positive outcome for everyone. Twisting it into an evil thing is reading into the prayer what doesn't exist..

 

[RDKirk]

I don't think praying for someone you think will do positive things for your nation is praying evil against anyone, it's simply praying for what you see as a positive outcome for everyone. Twisting it into an evil thing is reading into the prayer what doesn't exist..

But it's not a positive outcome for the losers. People will lose income potential, possibly even their jobs.

Now, a prayer that nobody gets hurt...that would be worth praying for.

 

[Hazelelponi]

But it's not a positive outcome for the losers. People will lose income potential, possibly even their jobs.

Now, a prayer that nobody gets hurt...that would be worth praying for.

I'm sure there were people praying for Biden to win, and as a result of his win people are losing their jobs right now right and left, the war machine is back to turning so people will lose their lives as a result etc etc

But when they prayed, they thought (i will always give the benefit of the doubt to my brothers and sisters in Christ) they were praying for something good, so I can't hold their desires against them, even when it was mistaken and ends up hurting others..

In the end, regardless of who wins or who prays, it is God who controls the result, as the Scriptures tell us.