As we talk of a unified SDA forum the topic of differing SDA beliefs keeps being brought up. I for one think that part of the this happens because our church periodically updates, changes, and rewords our "Fundemental Beliefs". Sometimes new beliefs or a different interpretation of beliefs comes out. Not everyone changes what they believe based on the changes the GC institutes. So then you have SDA who were baptised under one set of ideas and another bapstised under another. I know that the church has to keep learning, growing, and redifining itself to survive. But the process leads to a varying ideas and opinions that all fall under the SDA banner. Our forum represents this. It isn't that people are denying SDA beliefs, it is just when we were brought in and what was stressed was different. I have seen "Fundementals" reworded and reworked 3 times since I was baptised.
Changing Fundemental Beliefs
- Thread starter catmommy
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k4c
Well-Known Member
One of the issues I have with the SDA is when they make the Fundemental Beliefs a standard requirement for baptism. I believe baptism should not intail a six week course in the fundemantal beliefs before one is eligible for baptism. The baptism process should be very simple. Do you see yourself as a sinner? Do you see yourself in need of a Savior? Getting into all the other issues should be after one has made the committment to God through baptism.
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Baptism is two fold. We are baptised into the family of God and into the church. To be baptised into the family of God the simplicity you suggested is fine. However, when you join any organization you need to know what the organization stands for.
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k4c
Well-Known Member
The Bible speaks of being baptized into Christ. Any denomination can baptize a person into Christ. Once the person is baptized then they seek to grow in Christ. It's in this growing process that we begin to learn true doctrines and then find a church that's teaching the truth. The church you finally end up in may not even be the one that baptized you.
The true church that everyone is baptized into is the body of Christ, which is an invisible church consisting of many different people from many different denominations. These people have been baptized into Christ and are growing and seeking truth at all levels.
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trubeautie
Salaam-e-Ishq
Thank you for such a very insightful post, Catmommy. Those are issues that we should hold in our minds, so that we can better understand the diversity within our faith.
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If that is the case i.e. knowing what an .org stands for when joining, I would submit that baptizing children and having them become a part of the organization is a conflict to that idea... does an eight or nine year old child grasp all that a church organization stands for? I don't think so, even though there are many, many bright, intelligent kids...
Let me add that I was baptized at 9 yrs old, and of course when I was baptized there were no 28 fundamental beliefs, just the basic 10-13 vows if my memory serves..... the only advantage in my case was that I was adventism in my family was generational.... even then I did not "know" everything the church stood for....
My belief is that our understanding of truth is progressive and as long as we live we ought to be in a learning mode because things are constantly being put in our paths so that we can rethink and modify our beliefs...
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T
TrustAndObey
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As most people know, Ive only been a member of the Adventist church for five years, but I think that the idea that a lot of our disagreements come from changed fundamental beliefs is wrong.
Heres why I say that .
I dont believe there was EVER a fundamental belief or time when our church taught that everybody would be saved, regardless of their relationship (or lack thereof) with Christ.
I dont believe there was EVER a fundamental belief that baptism was/is an ancient, useless ritual.
I dont believe there was EVER a fundamental belief in our church that said the bible wasnt inspired by God Himself. It is the Word of God and the Adventist church has always taught that it is our foundation. That has never changed.
Its easy to blame divisions on the changing of fundamental beliefs, but that doesnt make it accurate.
Heres why I say that .
I dont believe there was EVER a fundamental belief or time when our church taught that everybody would be saved, regardless of their relationship (or lack thereof) with Christ.
I dont believe there was EVER a fundamental belief that baptism was/is an ancient, useless ritual.
I dont believe there was EVER a fundamental belief in our church that said the bible wasnt inspired by God Himself. It is the Word of God and the Adventist church has always taught that it is our foundation. That has never changed.
Its easy to blame divisions on the changing of fundamental beliefs, but that doesnt make it accurate.
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You are right. Not all of our belief varriations can be traced to changing fundemental beliefs. However, I was born and raised SDA. I have seen changes in attitudes and tweaking of the 28 over the years. Even the 28 I was baptised under are not the ones present today. I tend to hold more to the attitude of the church that I was baptised into. The new 28 do not represent my beliefs as accurately as the 28 I was baptised into. This can be one of the reasons of the differences in beliefs and attitudes in our churches and on this forum. Another issue with changing the 28 is that it seems to make them less "fundemental" in some individuals minds.
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TrustAndObey
Guest
Catmommy, since I wasn't raised in the church, I obviously don't know the differences between now and then. Can you tell us what changes you've seen as far as fundamental/foundational beliefs over the years?
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correct catmommy, as I too was raised in the church, and trust me in 1969 when I was baptized (at 9) there were NO fundamental beliefs... and I have seen in my 40 yrs alot of change... change is not a bad thing.... Initially there were 27 fundamental beliefs and there was alot of discussion about adopting a set of beliefs because some people felt it would be used as a "creed" which is something the pioneers stayed away from. My concern is that people will use the fundamental beliefs as a litmus test about who is and who is not an adventist... and in various places that is happening....
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TrustAndObey
Guest
Stormy, are you telling us that when you were a child the church didn't teach anything specific?
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trubeautie
Salaam-e-Ishq
And there are regional differences too... The Adventism where my parents grew up tends to be stricter overall than where I grew up. That contributes to people attitudes as well.
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The Seventh-day Adventist church has always taught specific things. Several of those specific things have changed and/or fluctuated since 1860, and parallel beliefs have also changed in the rest of the American religions and Christianity more broadly in that time.
The Seventh-day Adventist church has not always had a committee-voted document titled "Fundamental Beliefs."
The 27 Fundamental Beliefs statement was a new document adopted in 1980 at the Dallas GC session.
The Seventh-day Adventist church has not always had a committee-voted document titled "Fundamental Beliefs."
The 27 Fundamental Beliefs statement was a new document adopted in 1980 at the Dallas GC session.
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when I was baptized they assumed that since my parents were sda, and grandparents were sda, that I probably knew what I needed to know, and I did know quite a bit.... I don't recall the baptismal classes being conducted as they are now...
However when I was a kid some of the things being preached included, only adventists would be saved and that when people were forced to choose, only those who became adventists would be ultimately saved. Some preached that those who had been saved but never observed the sabbath would do so when ascending to heaven because it would take 7 days and sabbath would be kept in route. A literal sanctuary in heaven was taught as well as Jesus being literally in the most holy place. Lots of emphasis on being persecuted, the time of trouble, fleeing to the mountains, knowing what to eat and what to avoid in the woods...Lots of performance stuff, perfecting your character, doing what's right, not alot about God's mercy or grace... that is what I remember....
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Tradition represents our search for the essential. It's important to understand our tradition, but "passing it on" should not replace our continuing search for a more whole understanding. .
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Please don't overlook the forest because all you can see are the trees.
The simple truth is; People change daily. Principals never do.
If you wish to forget the 28 FBs, all the GC statements ever made, and everything Ellen G. White wrote, all I will need to defend my faith, and the principals found in any of the foregoing, is my Bible.
Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc
The simple truth is; People change daily. Principals never do.
If you wish to forget the 28 FBs, all the GC statements ever made, and everything Ellen G. White wrote, all I will need to defend my faith, and the principals found in any of the foregoing, is my Bible.
Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc
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No one has suggested that principles change... however I would submit that it is possible that what has been identified as a "Principle" may not be a principle at all....
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